Linux Journal Likes Mac OS X

sobchak writes "In an article from the latest issue of Linux Journal, Doc Searls and Brent Simmons review Mac OS X. It's a fair and balanced analysis, but is a definite thumbs up for Mac OS X from (yet another) respected Linux source. They stop just short of calling the new OS 'developer nirvana,' but did say, 'Last week we put Mac OS X on a Titanium laptop. It blew our minds.'"

Comments

Can't we all just get along?

[KillerKane]

It's nice to see, for a change, an article that doesn't pit Linux and OSX against each other, but instead focuses on how they can be complementary and what benefits there are for both camps. The article seemed very even-handed to me. It seemed to say "Linux is cool, OSX is cool, and the cross-pollination of advances in each is even cooler". Bravo.

The key quote

[foobar104]

Since the server is currently curled up in the corner, whimpering and mewling, I can't cut-and-paste and must paraphrase from memory. But as I remember it, the best one-liner from this article went something like this:

"When it comes to OS X and Linux, it seems that the market logic is AND, not OR."

(You may now begin the tired and meaningless flames about the difference between AND, OR, and XOR. No one will read them. ;-) )

Re:blown away?

[TTop]

I think you're confused -- the quote said Mac OS X blew their minds, not a Linux distribution.

The OS isn't the problem...

[OneFix]

As a former Amiga user, I can say that the single thing holding the Mac down is its hardware...not that the hardware is bad (far from it), but it's the closed architecture.

It's true that a closed architecture can have a signifigant advantage (I won't go over that argument), but the Mac is close enough to the PC in its price range and target audience that the comparison to PeeCee hardware is valid.

If a potential Mac user doesn't fit into a mold of what Apple has designed a system for, then that user will not find "value" in the Mac.

As well, hardware manufacturers (in general) have always treated non-PC hardware as an afterthought. I know there have been some advances here as well, but the fact still remains that support is generally less than stellar for anything not wintel.

There is also the problem of percieved cost with Mac vs. PC. Alot of ppl look at a cheap Mac and say, but this PC is so much cheaper. Apple has attempted to fix that with the iMac, but I don't see it happening...

Don't get me wrong, the Mac has a great OS, and I personally belive that the 68k and PPC processors are superior to x86 based processors, but this is the problem that Apple & the Mac community as a whole should be addressing.

Re:The OS isn't the problem...

[Spencerian]

I disagree, but understand your opinion.

By "closed architecture," I make the assumption that you mean that you can't go and build a Mac like one could do for a PC. True.

But then, you don't run out to your auto store to build a Jaguar. I know, the car analogy is cliched now, but it illustrates the point.

Apple doesn't expect every person to switch--only the people who consider the value of the Macintosh (both OS and hardware) worthwhile. Even if they get a fraction of Windows users to switch, they're successful.

Apple has been getting away from the "hardware proprietary" model since 1998 pretty well. Today, in their G4 towers, the only proprietary hardware (outside of the chassis) is the motherboard and perhaps the processor. Everything else can be bought and installed as you would a PC. I'm probably not telling you anything new.

I think Apple's computers meet a greater flexibility than a typical PC because they hold a tighter grip on the true standards. Some PCs offer the same standards but implement them strangely. The feel of the machine also is different from PC to PC. That's rare from a Mac perspective.

You're right on the cost--but people do seem to look a little more at looks now, too, as they would with cars. I think Apple needs to address how easy it would be to MOVE from Windows to Mac, and make it easy by making systems with Virtual PC bundled and a tool for moving data from the PC to the Mac.

I see one thing about the iMac that few have realized: Sales are through the roof and Apple is having a hard time with demand--for their HIGH END, MOST EXPENSIVE version!!! Imagine the sales numbers for the lower priced models once they work out the supply issue.

I guess baby steps is better than no progress at all in terms of turnover to Mac tech, however.

Re:The OS isn't the problem...

[OneFix]

But then, you don't run out to your auto store to build a Jaguar.

I don't think this analogy ever worked...here's why...

1) It is a proven fact that an automobile as a whole is much cheaper than all of the parts...meaning that if you went out to buy a V8, Frame, Body, Radio, etc and then put em all together to make a new Jaguar, it'ld be at least double the cost of a new jaguar.

2) The trend in the automobile industry is to keep the technology out of the hands of the consumer (ever wonder why noone uses RS-232 for access to the computer anymore?)...the situation in the hardware industry is the exact opposite. Most ppl wouldn't touch their fuel injectors in their vehicle, but it is common for someone (even those that don't build their own system) to switch things such as printers, CD-ROMs, CD-RWs, and DVD-ROMs...even adding memory and harddrives.

3) The reason for all of this is that (and you just inadvertently strengthened my argument) automobile manufacturers manufacture their own replacement parts. If they sold parts at cost, then someone would come along and make a cheaper/better Jaguar. This is exactly where the problem of a closed architecture is apparent.

Re:The OS isn't the problem...

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Most ppl wouldn't touch their fuel injectors in their vehicle, but it is common for someone (even those that don't build their own system) to switch things such as printers, CD-ROMs, CD-RWs, and DVD-ROMs...even adding memory and harddrives.

Um ... no it's not. The vast majority of home computer users have never opened up their cases and never will. Businesses may be a little more likely to upgrade, but these days it seems they're more likely to buy new machines and sell the old ones to employees, or donate the old machines to local schools for a tax writeoff, or whatever.

The car analogy is a nearly exact one in this case. People who upgrade their own processor or replace a CD-ROM with a CD-RW at home are the "shadetree mechanics" of the computer world, equivalent to car owners who will put in a new exhaust system to get some extra horsepower. Far more common are those who will take their [cars / computers] into a dealer for [a new set of performance tires / installation of more RAM]. But both groups are vastly outnumbered by those who use the machine until it breaks down or is rendered obsolete, and then buy a new one.

Re:OS X(again) and ADC

[Spencerian]

Many common software and docs are available from the online (free) subscription to ADC. Just register online, and you should be able to get SDK and tool packages by download until your eyes bleed.

For beta participation and other NDA software, you'll need to fork over cash for a stronger ADC membership, but there is a student version if you qualify. Go for it.

Re:OS X(again) and ADC

[Daniel Dvorkin]

What Spencerian Said. I've been an ADC student member for some time and I think it's worth every penny -- I got a big (one-time) discount on a new Mac, and I get the latest releases of the OS almost as soon as they come out, which easily pays the cost of membership and then some. OTOH, the regular (non-student) membership is pretty expensive, and probably only worth it if you're doing professional Mac development.

Not Main Page? Article Refreshing

[feldsteins]

This really should be on the front page of Slashdot.

Anyhow, it's nice to see anyone outside of Mac users discussing Apple products without a sneer (let alone the uber-geek *NIX crowd!). "Refreshing" doesn't even begin to cover how it strikes me.

Does anyone know how to make a "smug" face in ASCII?

my favorite line

[cappadocius]

my favorite line:

[Aqua] includes variably translucent windows and other stuff Microsoft can copy later

Max OS X on desktop

[mojorisin67_71]

I have OS X on my titanium. I agree with the reviewer
that is awesome.
You have the beautiful Mac interface plus the terminal
window to have fun on a normal UNIX.
Best of both worlds. I can use it and my gf can use it too.

The only glitch so far is there is no Java plugin
for OS X. So playing those Java games is difficult.
Apple/sun needs to solve this issue soon to allow the masses to use a Mac without any problem.

Maybe the product version of Opera might solve this.

Re:Max OS X on desktop

[l0wland]

The only glitch so far is there is no Java plugin for OS X.

There is an excellent Java-plugin for Netscape/Fizilla for OS X. I use it with Mozilla 0.9.9 for OS X and it works great !

You can download it here at VersionTracker.com.

I like the entire package - Hard and soft

[rjamestaylor]

I just got a Titanium G4 550 Powerbook which replaces my workhorse Toshiba 2805 (running Linux,Win4Lin and, for DVDs, booting in the WinME that came with it). What impressed me was, of course, OS X with Darwin underneath (very solid:

• [localhost:~] rjt% uptime
• 
  8:00PM up 5 days, 23:20, 3 users, load averages: 0.76, 0.57, 0.54

) but also the impressive marriage of software and hardware. Apple's careful crafting admired by many in Aqua is evident in the sleek design of the Titanium's case -- even the packaging.

Moreover, when I plugged in my older Sony DV8 video camera (having iMovie open) immediately iMovie reported "Camera Connected" and I was slurpping video instantly. Yes, I've done that on a PC -- October 1999 I spent the better part of a day making my Sony accessible over the fireware card I bought at Fry's. It was a nightmare of drivers and procedural steps to connect the wires and run the program. It never worked the first time and sometimes it wouldn't work. Having a machine crafted as an elegant and working unit is new to me.

I don't doubt Apple could have OS X run on Intel-based hardware -- afterall NeXTSTEP, the base of OSX in many ways, ran on x86 hardware eventually. I just don't think the experience would be as enjoyable.

Re:OS X(again) and ADC

[woggo]

So the student membership does qualify you for the hardware discount? That is pretty unclear from the site.

Re:OS X(again) and ADC

[Graymalkin]

Yeah, I know two people who've gotten the student discount. Of course the thing to remember is it is a one time discount, both people that used the student discount got the most ultra top of the line Mac they could build and then applied their discount to it. The stipulation of the student membership is that you have to be enrolled at the school you say you are and when applying for a hardware discount they most likely will run a check.

Re:OS X(again) and ADC (good for students)

[Dougal]

I too joined the ADC as a student member. For your $99 you get a 10% to 20% once in a life time hardware discount (I got a 20% discount on my iBook in the UK), and all the developer goodness that they ship out. It's worth every penny if you're a developer and plan on getting a Mac soon.

ADB? ADB is long gone... long live... err no...

[johnpaul191]

ADB was short for Apple Desktop Bus. what you people might refer to as PS/2 maybe (i really dont know)? ADB died when the macs added USB and lost their serial ports and floppy drives. anyway my point being if you say a new (usb stock) Mac has an ADB keyboard, you would get some confused looks from Mac users.

anyway to the point of your problem about events..... sorry, can't help.

Heard it all before

[darkov]

The most interesting thing about the article is the way these unix hackers are swooning over the Mac usability, the very thing that many such folk have mocked for years. You plug something in. It just works. You unplug it. It still works. You change it all about. It still works.

If only the entire open source movement could have this sort of eye-opening experience, Microsoft would be running scared.

OS X, SuSE, Mandrake, Darwin

[Laplace]

I have a Blue and White G3, running at 333 Mhz. I love it. On the two hard drives on this machine I have OS X, SuSE 7.3, Mandrake (cooker), and Darwin installed on it.

The rundown:

OS X is lovely, but slow slow slow. Even upgraded to 10.1.2 it is still just too damn slow to use. Aside from that, I love the interface and the tools.

Darwin is just too close to BSD. I like to have good configuration tools (aside from vi). Very little documentation, and too much of a learning curve for someone who has more important things to do than configure and administer a BSD box. I admit that I haven't played with it much.

Mandrake is a bit rough around the edges (it is the cooker version, after all). It had the best install of any Linux distribution that I've ever used. I just love the bootloader that it installed. It is a two stage wonder program that lets me pick any operating system that I want.

SuSE 7.3 is a joy to work with. It is responsive, has great configuration tools, has almost every application that I could want, and is just fun to use. I had two problems with it. I can't adjust gamma with XFree 4.x (which is an XFree problem), and it can't run the built in firewire (well it can, but only in raw mode which doesn't do me any good). I solved the firewire problem by buying a cheapo pci firewire card, and it is up and running.

If I had a state of the art Mac I would run OS X in a heartbeat. On my G3, I prefer SuSE 7.3.