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Sun Works With Apache Software Foundation

Posted by Hemos on from the he-said-she-said dept.

The Jakarta group had raised some concerns over the proposed Java Specification Participation Agreement. After some hemming and hawing, it appears that the Java Community Process chair (Sun) has agreed with the ASF's concerns - but IANAL ? . If you have more info, paste it below.

7 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Tomcat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Jakarta's Tomcat was threatened, and, from someone who works in the J2EE market, that woulda been baaaaad. Tomcat is great for prototyping and working at from home (trust me, you don't want to lug Weblogic or Websphere onto your home machine).

  2. Stupidity by Ogerman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This kinda nonsense is ridiculous. Java and all related technology would be much better handled as an open industry project rather than by an arrogant corporation that hasn't quite realized yet that proprietary is going the way of the dino. So it doesn't fit their current cost structure. Boo hoo! Restructure the company how 'bout.

  3. This looks really positive... but... by JohnMunsch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's one detail that I notice and it may be very important. They list at the end of the document a set of JSRs that they are committed ("at a minimum") to changing to meet Apache's requirements. Can you see which one is missing?

    JSR 151, Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition 1.4 (J2EE 1.4) Specification is not in the list. That's the one that JBoss really needs (or JSR 58 for J2EE 1.3) access to testing on and a guarantee that Sun isn't going to go after them for implementing an open source version of their specification.

    Now I could be overreacting, it could be that they left 151 out of the list because it is still open and they intend to get to it for that reason, but if that was the case you would expect to see 58 in the list. I'm hoping this is more oversight than an actual attempt to continue the foolishness with JBoss.

    --
    Sigs are for people who started using the net _after_ '86.
  4. it's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic by mmusn · · Score: 1, Interesting
    I think, JCP or not, Java has essentially become a proprietary system. It started out as a small language with a focussed library, something that could have set a widely implemented standard. Sun was promising to submit the language and a set of core libraries to a standards board. Several vendors were starting to come up with independent implementations. But Java 2 has become so big and complex that the only "standard" implementation is Sun's.

    The mechanisms at work here are essentially the same as with Microsoft Windows or Microsoft VisualBasic: in the absence of multiple implementors, people will just keep adding functionality to the single codebase and ship the stuff. There is no pressure on Sun to keep things small, manageable, and independently implementable. And since Sun's Java implementation is not Open Source (although you can get the source with lots of restrictions under some legal agreement or other), it still gets controlled by just one company. The overall effect is also the same as with Microsoft: either you follow Sun wherever they go, or you are out of luck.

    It's a shame that it had to come to this. I think, on balance, once Mono and similar projects have matured enough, ECMA C# (but not Microsoft C#/.NET) is going to be the better long-term choice for people interested in Java-like languages. I expect that's going to be less than a year. That is regrettable because an open source Java equivalent of ECMA C# would have been available years ago if only a standard equivalent to ECMA C# had been created for Java. And I think Sun would be doing better in the long run as well if that had come to pass--Microsoft may be able to get away with this sort of thing for decades, but I doubt Sun will.

  5. No OSS RI licensing is news to me by ddstreet · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "2. The JSPA must grant an Expert Group the right, at the Expert Group's discretion, to release its own Reference Implementation (RI) and/or Test Compatibility Kit (TCK) under an open source license (Apache-style license minimum.) ..."

    The draft of the JSPA submitted for community review would permit the TCK to be so licensed, but not the RI.

    That's news to me, when we moved into the public review period for JSR80 (javax.usb), the JCP PMO suggested that we host the RI, licensed under the Common Public License, on our own server.

    We have written and circulated a change to the draft JSPA that would permit the RI to be so licensed.

    Well that's good news. I thought it was already ok! Guess that's why IANAL.

  6. They're spending on supporting the TCKs by sigmond · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Read the quote again:
    Sun will therefore off an annual support scholarship program to suitably qualified efforts to cover access to support services for TCKs offered by Sun. Emphasis added
    This means that Sun will fund the support services required by the selected "efforts" in the course of certifying their projects via the TCKs. The note states these support services can be costly to provide and that is where the $3 million of Sun's money comes in.
  7. Jboss certification by chicoy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a step in the right direction. Apache made a stance and stood their ground. Sun gets sick of everyone's complaints - so they listen (plus I wouldn't mess with Apache).

    Now that Sun-Apache is better (not perfect), can Sun PLEASE solve the issue with JBoss. They are not as big as Apache, yet, but the certification of an open source implementation of J2EE is very important.

    It is not over yet, I think this is very promising, but until Sun 'really' decides where they stand on OSS, Java will continue to get hurt.

    --
    ~the keyboard is mightier than the pen.