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What Software Should ISPs Distribute and Support?
BroadbandBradley asks: "Many ISPs give their customers a software package to install with their service like a branded browser/email package. Some also include network diagnostics tools, even remote connection VNC packages for technical reps to do remote support. The ISP will then tell customer that they'll only get help if they're using that package. What features are good or bad, and what should or shouldn't be included on the client side? My question to Slashdot readers is, what software and services should ISPs distribute and support?"
No matter what we support, the answer to most calls is still "Reboot, reconnect it should work now". No matter what is installed, 80% of our calls will be OS related problems.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
What's the use of VNC if you're unable to get connected !
Ha ! A can opener in a can !
the answer is "only products that you have researched and are familiar with". That means that the software is well documented and that you have links to known bugs & other issues. It helps if you have an inside person in that company too. Keep a knowledge base for your employees to eliminate redundant wild goose chases.
On a side note, you must be pretty brave to be starting a business in a saturated market during an economic downturn. Know something we don't? Most ISPs have already been absorbed by the national chains (AOL, Yahoo, etc...). Good luck.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
alternative browsers, ftp clients, software required for connecting to the ISP servers and that's it...the ISPs should not intrude on the users personal computer other than with software required to use the connection.
internet like monkeys'
Go ahead and mod me down for being a troll or offtopic, but take a look at the other posts here. They prove that the question was dumb to begin with.
To be more explicit, this question is unanswerable in its current form. More information is needed:
What user base are you going after? Linux users? Windows users? What OSes are you going to support? What does your technical support organization look like? Are you gunning for experienced surfers? Total newbies?
I work for an isp that does mainly dsl and dialup service. As far as software goes, we'll support anything, but most people are running Outlook Express and Internet Explorer. 98% of my software calls are these two programs.
:(
There really is no reason we can't support any email program, but people just aren't using them at home.
As far as the VNC idea, great in practice, but how hard is it to configure any web browser or email program over the phone? If something would require VNC, then it's something that you probably shouldn't be tech-ing, refer them to the hardware manufactor. I'm not saying I'm lazy, but my company isn't paying me to fix your virus scan, printer, and hard drive.
Finally what I would like to see is ISP's forcing people to use HARDWARE MODEMS. Nothing is more frustrating then trying to tech a compaq with a crappy HSP modem that doesn't work if you're using more then 50% of your cpu.
It used to be that the basic software that local isp would send you was a browser (90% of the time it was Netscape) and an email program (like pegasus) that was mostly since most OSes didn't come with anything at all (win 3.x, old Mac OS)
but now unless you have a portal what's the point in handing anything out as more then a "nice option" ??
VNC for support is just silly (like someone said above) no connection no support
only thing I would see as usefull would be a virus scanner or something like that.
"there is a marmot in the bucket ? I'll go fix that." (don't ask)
ISP's should not distribute any software whatsoever. If they chose to distribute software, or are paid to distribute software they should make it clear whether or not the software is necessary in order to use that ISP. It is OK in some instances such as Cable or DSL to include software only for the purpose of establishing a connection for security reasons.
Prime examples, 1 good and 1 bad.
Let's start with the worst, AOL. AOL requires a large piece of memory eating, slow as crap software to connect to the internet and use their service. Everything is proprietary, slow and crappy. I mean, proprietary is sometimes ok, but not if it's slower than the standard.
SNET internet http://www.snet.net. Their dial up service is exceptional. They give you a cd, but you don't need it. You can use any standard PPP connection software, like the ones built into windows or linux. All the software does it re-configure explorer to say brought to you by snet. If you don't mind it, install it. Their DSL while being fast, amazing, cheap, and everything else is equivalent. It comes with the same non-essential explorer customizing software. And it comes with the little program they use to establish the dsl connection. This is so they can require a name and password and transmit it securely. The software runs under windows. But I've made the dsl work in linux.
The best ISP in the world, college. Plug computer into wall. Auto configure lan connection with dhcp. Open any type of internet software, it works, fast, and reliable. No extra software needed.
Thats how it should be.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Don't give them some heavily branded browser that is going to start a lot of junk every time you log in. Simpler is better. Don't install protocols they don't need. When I first got my cable modem, @home tried to install Microsoft Networking, a heavily branded browser and a bunch of other junk. Luckily my computer was still in transit so I just grabbed the modem and the numbers and didn't have to call them back. Why on earth would you want MS networking for a home computer to surf the net?
Do give them a minimal version of os requirement. If you tell them they need to have windows 95, and that you don't support win3.x, then you know they have a telnet client and will support that, for example.
Do require a minimum version of both ie and netscape. And then write your web pages to support both equally. Do provide unbranded versions of those browsers on cd and support the installation.
Do give them a web interface to their e-mail. Support that. And remember the minimal browser recommendation.
Do give them a real pop account so that those people that know what they are doing can set up their preferred e-mail client. Don't support those clients officially. This gives you control over the interface so your help people will always know what the customer is using.
For ftp, just pick a program you like. ws_ftpLE on the windows side and something on the mac.
Now the tough choices, newsgroups and chat. Since the chat clients are going back and forth on interoperability, you'll have to make 2 decisions. You'll have to decide if you are going to support a chat client. I'd personally say no, and here's why. Customers will want to use the client that all of their friends use, so if you tell them you won't support msn chat but will support icq, for example, you could lose customers. The alternative is to support the 3 or 4 major clients, and no more. The problem is that you'll have to keep up with lot's of different version which could be a problem. Of course, I don't do the icq/chat thing so take that with a grain of salt.
Which brings us to newsgroups. You need to decide if you are going to host them at all, just non-binaries or something in the middle. I'd say that the best reader for windows is Agent. So maybe you could get a licensing deal with them and spread the cost around. The alternative, outlook, doesn't enter into the picture because of security problems.
But that's just my thoughts.
The larger the ISP, the larger the marketing department, and consequently, the less I trust bundled ISPware.
I've been to the homes of n00bs, and seen some truly sickening stuff - one poor person was paying $19.99 per month (the same as any other user), for a custom browser that (a) crashed reproducibly on certain specific emails, (b) beamed banner ads every 30 seconds, and (c) looked like nothing I'd ever seen before - like the worst of Netscape, IE, and AOL rolled into one.) I think it was called Encompass. (Acquired, not coincidentally, by Yahoo in 1999).
Since I saw that, I no longer patronize ISPs that require the use of branded products.
So my answer to your question would be "I don't give a damn what you may distribute and support, so long as there's an easily-located web page or phone support script that allows me to find the IP addresses of your primary/secondary DNS servers, and the FQDNs of your POP, SMTP, NNTP, FTP and news servers, what number I can use to connect, and what to enter as a name/password combination when I do."
What you do with the n00bz is your own business.
Yes, you may not be using adware/spyware/malware - but because I don't trust you, I'm not gonna install your bundle to find out. If I can't set up the box without your branded bundle, I'll just take my business elsewhere.
No, seriously. The selling point of any ISP should be the connection itself. Every dollar spent on hiring a programmer to embed the ISP's icon in a custom version of netscape is a dollar that could have been better spent on more hardware, or more competent sysadmins to keep the connection running smoothly.
Feel free to give the user suggestions about what software to use, and point them to where they can obtain those applications, but don't waste resources putting together silly custom software packages that 1) eat up memory and cpu on the users' machines, and 2) half the users don't install anyway.
:Peter
With all the recent and I guess continued issues with security do you really want to install a program that allows somebody from you ISP to connect to your computer remotely? Even if the intentions are good it only takes 1 rogue tech support person to own your entire client list.
I've gotten CDs from various ISPs over the years. The only one I've ever kept (or even used) was one that had every single RFC ever written burned onto it. Massively helpful, instructive, and educational from a historical standpoint.
Since I used to be the lead tech for my current ISP, I'm definately in the same boat. (Its not unusual that I call tech support to check on something for a mutual customer, and have the ISP's tech as me what command he should run on their server!)
The arguement that I've had over and over again with technically minded friends who haven't done phone support (supporting your company's employees is quite different) is that there is a tough mental transition that has to happen when you get a clueful person on the phone after dealing with "how do I set up my computer to call the internet" type calls. Its tough to suddenly go from step-by-step instructions and building the new user's confidence to a call where the customer knows more about the subject than you do. When you add in the customers who know just enough to sound like they have a clue (which is about the same point as knowing enough to get themselves into trouble) it gets even tougher.
ISPs should be providing infrastructure. Leave the software to the users. Save money on providing and supporting software and spend it on paying those support people enough to actually know what they are doing when customers call because something isn't working.
If you really need to distribute software, then share those if/else click through support files that the tech support people are [poorly] using. Of course, I may just be bitter having used AOL's and Comcast's "support" services.
In other words, there's exactly two programs the ISP should support; ping and traceroute.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
*snerk*
Bwahhahahaha...
Oh, man, you are so deluded.
Do you know where the people who really, *really* know how to do tech support go to?
The answer is: Ding! Anywhere but tech support. Because tech support work blows, period. It's like working the fry line at McDonalds - once you've grown beyond the ability to do fries, you do whatever it takes to get out of having to do it. Like programming, sysadmin, or even nothing to do with computers at all.
In other words, the people who would make fantastic tech support people get away from tech support, because those very skills lend themselves to (one hopes) better employment, better pay, and less shackling to a phone line talking to dips who think they know more than you. What do you end up with after they all go away? The dregs. Hence, your problem.
Besides, the average geek should be able to track down whatever knowledge he needs without having to ask some anonymous person on the phone.
Most tech support people I know started out as curious geeks, and only became tech support because they found a job where they could get paid for their obscure knowledge. I was one of those guys, and I will never, never, never do tech support again. Ditto for the fry line.
GMFTatsujin
This question isn't being posed to internet seasoned people. It's ludicrous to think that they were asking what to send to a group of people who work on the net for a living. What they were really asking was 'what can we do to help get non-initiated ppl to the net?'
I end up playing technical support for my family. I don't like it. I don't like explaining what TCP/IP is. I don't like having to set up Internet Explorer to look on the LAN for the net connection instead of trying to dial up. And I really don't like the terminology that Windows uses to get you running. It's silly really.
You know what the ISP should provide? It should provide the information to the computer on how it should be set up. If the CD basically told the computer 'Go to DHCP, set your programs to look on the lan for the internet connection, and then go!' that'd be all most people really cared about.
When @Home went down, AT&T BI set up their DNS so that no matter what address you went to, you ended up at a web page that says "Download and run this file." When you did that, it set up my computer for what the new network was. That was so cool. I didn't have to plug any new data in. That's what the CD should do.
"Derp de derp."
I just want my ISP to provide a (reliable, fast) connection to the internet. End of story.
Fortunately that's what my ISP provides. (Oh, yeah, they offer an email account, but I prefer to run my own domain.)
Any software or service an ISP offers beyond that is costing somebody money. Guess who.
-- Alastair
Ok let me take on this remark because I think you are missing a few big points.
...).
;)
1) As other posters have pointed out most slashdot readers are much better at computers then normal users. For us offering no or little support is less of an issue (except when the network is down, even the most technical still love to bitch when something is down
2) Most any company that sets their mind to it can offer dial up, or other Internet services. It is not all that hard really as long as you have a few tech people that have a clue. What sets apart a good ISP (the S is for Service) for the rest is good tech support. When a customer calls and says I can not get my email or heaven for bid ebay is not working the tech on the phone needs to know how to 'make ebay work again'. Also in many cases those same support people that are making ebay work again are also the ones that are working with vendors (LEC's, hardware, data, etc) so one way or another they are needed in the organization anyway.
Those are only a few points, but I think you get the picture. O yeah I happen to work at an ISP so I do have a bit of real world exprieane on this one
man
No manual entry for
You must mean like this one. Selected quotes:
The best example of bad bundled software was @Home's-- it was crap, plain and simple. Wow, you mean you're giving me OLD versions of IE and OE that kill my existing bookmarks, reset my homepage, and wreak other havoc? All just so the browser and mail program have your stupid animated logo instead of the default one? Oh, I can't wait to install it!
:-)
Way back when I got my cable modem (now replaced by DSL), Comcast sent out hardware guys and software guys separately. Mind you, this was long before the days of the self-install kit. The hardware guys did their job, but when the software guy showed up I didn't let him in the door. "Just gimme the config sheet with the server addresses, and be on your way," I said. And he did, and I amazingly survived for years with only the default IE throbber to watch while pages loaded.
The only useful app in that whole shitty bundle was the one that tested the @Home servers so I could find out exactly what was wrong before calling up to yell at the support monkeys.
Even worse, the Comcast.net software was even bigger shit-- almost every one of my clients who used @Home had their systems pretty well screwed by running that damned installer. Though on the plus side, I made quite a bit of money un-fucking things for them.
~Philly
I moved into a new apartment near the end of 2000. Broadband was not (affordably) available in my neighborhood, and so I opted for a dial-in through a company named MStar. Boy was that a mistake.
I was running Linux on my primary machine, but they sent me Windows-only sign-up software on a CD-ROM. So I fired up my old system from when I was a freshman, which still had Windows '95 on it, and signed up. Their software loaded onto my system, took the liberty of placing a custom "quick-launch" bar onto my desktop, and then proceeded to log me in and activate my account.
The browser on the quick-launch bar was IE, but I prefered Netscape. However, when I tried to launch Netscape, the window would blip open for a split second and then close. Confused, I closed the quick-launch program (which disconnected me from the network) and tried again; this time it worked. MStar's trojan sofware was literally blocking me from running Netscape.
Their software, which connecting, would ask for a username and password, which is just a front for a "real" username and password that were secretly passed to the server when initiating the PPP connection. I used some software to capture my real username and password, and then I set up a standard dial-up account. When I would try to access the net on my Linux box, the Windows box would be able to auto-dial the connection. That worked nicely for a while.
Until a month later when banner ads from MStar started appearing at the bottom of every page that I loaded. Their servers were modifying every web page that I retrieved by placing an image and a link to MStar-related sites! There was a "disable banner for 5 minutes" link in the banner, which simply called a Perl script with a parameter of 5.
Oh, and did I mention that MStar performs ISP-side web censorship? They blocked Adobe's web site once. I had to set up a proxy server on another network to get around that little issue.
With the help of a filtering proxy and a call to that script with a parameter of "9999999" in my browser's home page setting, I was finally able to get clean access to the net. A few months later, I moved and had broadband access. But I will never consider going with MStar again.
The next time I search for an ISP, I will only subscribe to a service that interferes the least with my connection to the Internet.
An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
If you don't know how to use a computer, take a class, don't call your ISP.