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Honesty/Ethics In Job Applications?
jt007 writes "I am a student in the UK who graduates from a computing course in a matter of weeks, and am starting to look for graduate jobs. One problem though, a friend and I are going travelling in about 15 months (obviously I need the job to pay for the trip!). Do I tell my employers this before I start work and potentially harm my chances of getting the job, or do I just shaft them in 15 months time? I would be interested in finding out in particular how IT managers out there would react to being put in a situation like this? Would it harm any chances of a reference for a future job? So the question is: is it best to keep quiet about my plans, or is honesty the best policy?" Look at it this way: if the company planned to close your office in 15 months would they tell you? If you were leaving in a much shorter period of time I'd think you should tell them, they might be rather annoyed to train you in a job and then have you depart and you might not be able to use them as a reference in the future. But 15 months? If you tell them, not only would you risk not getting the job because of it, your plans might change before then and you'd have lost the job for nothing.
What about the chance of taking a leave of absense?
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I once worked for a small software house where the owner took out a 2nd mortgage to make payroll. This guy deserved loyalty. I havn't heard of a company since then that would make that kind of sacrifice for its employees.
To the original poster: Make those 15 months worth it for your employer. If you have a good relationship, they may want you back when you're done travelling. If not, say goodbye and don't look back.
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If you feel that volunteering this informatin would jeopardize your chances of landing the job (or subsequently losing it), then you shouldn't do so. If you are directly asked whether you will be takin vacation time, it's a much clearer ethical problem--you should probably inform them.
This most likely isn't a concern for the company, but if you offer the information and show that you yourself are concerned about it, they might in turn become very concerned and think twice about your standing with the company.
Fifteen months in the future is a long way off. Get yourself settled in at the company before you announce your plans. If you do it well enough ahead of time, your prudence will probably even be appreciated.
I'ld be fine in just having them give more "realistic" job descriptions.
:)
Don't ask me to count how many job descriptions I've seen for a sysadmin that make it look like you have to be a kernel hacker
HR departments just use buzz words for IT jobs and it's obvious they don't know what they are talking about.
It makes it exteremly dificult to gauge what is really wanted when the person doing the initial contact can't explain why they list C++ and TCP/IP and HTTP for a Sys Admin job....but they can't outright tell you it's a Sys Admin job because they don't know!!! Many of the job descriptions I see want someone who can write the software they are using.
15 months is a ways out. Don't tell them. Shoot, you might find out by then you hate the job anyway. It's not uncommon for people to quit without giving reason, and they still find jobs afterward.
If you prove to be a very valuable employee, they may give you your old position when you return, but don't expect paid vacation.
If you make a habit of quitting jobs after short periods of time, then it starts to make you look bad. But quitting a first job? I think people almost expect that.
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
If they're offering you a two year contract, you speak up. If they're employing you 'at will' then it's none of their damn business.
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People are going to talk each other in circles a lot over this one. The bottom line: you can decide not to tell them, which will improve your chances in finding a job, but which is also not the "right thing to do," or you can tell them, which will hurt your chances, but which is the ethical choice.
Look at the job market, and you make your decision, mister.
FWIW, you might not go on this vacation in 15 months. Maybe you'll be so into the job you'll want to work more. Maybe you'll decide to go earlier. Perhaps you'll knock some young lady up and have other things to deal with in 15 months. Maybe your friend will be abducted by sheep.
You just never know. (and so maybe it's better not to shoot yourself in the foot, no?)
I am not an IT manager, but I have been the employee in this situation.
I recently left a job in order to return to school for a Masters. This was my first job after my Bachelors, and I left the job after less than a year.
My managers were very understanding, even though I left in the middle of a development cycle. I expect to be able to use these managers as positive references.
The bottom line is that you need to do what is best for you. There can be consequences, but you need to weigh what is important to you.
You don't necessarily need to sacrifice honesty! Eventually, my managers inquired about my long term goals with the company. This was the point that I announced my intentions, rather than hiding them from direct inquiry. I think that this honesty was appreciated and will positively effect any future contact that I may have with my managers.
Good luck with your decision!
What is your track record for keeping this sort of long-term committment, even in the face of change? Remember, the first casualty of a battle is the battle plan.
How can you say that you will be doing thus-and-so that far into the future? You stand a good chance of being side-tracked somewhere along the way, in which case telling your prospective employer that you will say "farewell, so long" at 15 months is not necessarily accurate.
Besides, you may learn that the job isn't what it was cracked up to be, and you leave long before the 15-month "promise". There are too many things unknown.
There is another possibility. You might not quit, but instead take an unpaid leave of absence... if you are good enough and valuable enough.
How many job descriptions are along the lines of:
Minimum qualifications:
6+ years exp with XML
10+ years exp with Java
HTML and CSS knowledge a plus
By asking here you've probably told everybody anyway ;)
Would now be a good time to mention that I too am looking for a job? Sysadmin for hire, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK