Jason Hunter on Opening the Java Community Process

Dejected @Work writes: "At JavaOne it was hinted that Sun and the Apache Software Foundation have worked out how open source software could participate in the JCP (Java Community Process) but the precise resolution was not disclosed. This developerWorks interview with Jason Hunter (Apache rep. for the JCP) clear things up a little and specifically explains what this means for open source developers and the JCP."

Comments

Good stuff

[sab39]

I hate when interesting stories get posted on slashboxes, because that means there's pretty much guaranteed to be no discussion at all.

Oh well... I can still have a discussion all by myself in here :)

This is good news and a BIG step in the right direction. Where we go from here seems to depend on whether Sun work in good faith or not. If they do the bare minimum to meet their side of the agreement, or drag their feet, then nothing will really change.

If on the other hand they take the agreement as a starting point and push forward with it agressively, this could be the start of a quiet revolution in the Java world. Getting more and more JSRs with Open Source reference implementations will start a process where Sun recognizes the positive PR and positive impact on the development process (the success of Tomcat itself has probably opened a few eyes inside Sun to the possibility of this) and might lead, eventually, to the opening of the entire JDK.

Making the JDK itself open source would pave the way for its inclusion in all major Linux distributions (including debian!) and for vast amounts of open source bug-fixing talent to be set to work. Unlike the initial release of OpenOffice or Mozilla, the JDK isn't in "that bad" of a state today, codewise, as far as I can tell, so the ramp-up period to widespread community involvement could be much quicker (although there are always the social barriers to break down).

And suddenly things like using Tomcat over say PHP or mod_perl wouldn't make you a second-class citizen in the open source world :)

Hunter is too optimistic

[software_non_olet]

... but certainly that's part of his role.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to become one, just to code something for the Open Source community. Hence I have to decide from the belly.

And according to my feelings the Java development is no-longer-so-open software. It became lawyer's country - and the whole situation is no longer white (open software) or black (proprietary), it's gone grey. The current discussions ar ample proof for that. Endless meetings and papers how to decide upon new papers, lawers all over the place.

But for such ground work as a development environment there need to be clear rules; the basement must be solid before you can build a house on it. And the concrete of this basement is not yet dry.

If the legal situation is not changing in the next future, 2002 will be the start of the decline of Java.

Long ago when Ada was starting to become available (and after APL had had it's crash landing) there was this saying among compiler writers: "Any programming language with an 'A' in it's name will not survive". And look at what happened with Ada - it's confined to western military developments. The leading role of the DOD became a hindrance to use Ada in non-western and non-military realms. After it's initial excellant support of Ada, the DOD should have given it's child the freedom to develop in the commercial and non-western world (which the DOD failed to do).

Now Sun is trying to make the same errors with Java which the DOD was doing with Ada - not giving enough freedom for a grown up child.

And the Apache group should stick more to it's original way of development - after all why did they succeed in the market place? If the Apache development would have been run under Sun's lead would we use the webserver all over the planet?

doesn't solve the problem

[j09824]

Sun is still calling all the shots when it comes to Java. Sun should follow through on their original promise: to make the core of the Java platform an ISO or ECMA standard that anybody can implement and build on without any obligation to Sun whatsoever.

Sun's excuses for not following through on their commitments don't hold water. Sun claims that their tight control over Java is necessary to ensure compatibility, but the Java APIs already fail to guarantee cross platform compatibility, and some of Sun's APIs are so deficient that third party APIs have already become a de-facto standard--on some platforms.

In different words, as far as I'm concerned, the JCP changes don't address the fundamental problems with Java and where it is going.