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Intel Shows Off 'Banias' Chip for Mobile Devices
deano writes "Intel has unveiled the first prototypes of their latest mobile "Banias" processors. The article states Banias systems with the Intel Odem Chipset will come out early 2003 and feature 802.11b. The article also speaks of the new Itanium with a 6Mb cache!"
Why Intel is setting themselves up for this, I have no idea.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
6 MB cache? The UltraSparc III has an 8 MB cache. Intel is still playing catch-up.
Of course, it wan't that long ago I was excited to have 8MB *RAM*.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
The article also speaks of the new Itanium with a 6Mb cache!"
Well, it's important to see that a fast and useful cache technology is much more than a big cache. You need good access times, good hit ratio, etc. Sometimes you can even get better performance by disabling the cache.
It's application-specific, don't assume bigger is better.
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
... that the Intel Roadmap has been displaced -1.5 yrs. The 6 MB cache Itanic will be at least 18 months late. So sad - the chip has so much potential despite it's bad press. I've had a Sitka 450 2MB cache server for 3 years and its got to be the best Intel product ever made.
Do you want to remove linux?
Banias, formerly Caesarea Philippi, is the Arabic name for the Hellenistic city of Paneas whose name derives from Pan, the Greek god of herds and shepherds. His cult was observed in a large cave at the foot of Mount Hermon, where a source of the River Jordan emerges.
Pepperdine University has conducted digs in the area that have unearthed parts of a palace from Herod Agrippa II. Modern-day Banias is located in Israel, where the Intel design team for the new chip is based. The company typically code-names its chips after geographical features.
I heard you could make a battery out of a potato or a lemon, but a processor out of a banana?
The speed of time is one second per second.
I've found Banana's get quite warm when covered with hot fudge.
Of course they typically sit on top of vanilla ice cream.
Does this make them the peltier coolers of the fruit and desert world?
Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
And in 2004/5 the news headlines on C|NET will talk about about:
Intel's New Slip Up - Banana Processor Fails to Satisfy
Why do we predict failure for products with silly names? Is Intel running out of accounting codes or something? ... Maybe their next processer will be called "Placenta" .
we have no Banias, we have no banias today.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Are wireless NOCs something that may be coming down the pipeline? More and more webmasters are making the transition to dedicated servers but are still held back by the price tag... this could be the kick in the butt needed to help this sluggish and saturated market come back to life again.
Hammer of Truth
For reference, Banias is the name of a river in northern Israel - one of the three sources of the river Jordan. It's a pretty area, and great for gentle hiking. There are nice pictures of it here, here, here and through Google image search
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
The Banias is a small river in northern Israel, which feeds the Jordan river. And Odem means "ruby". They're just continuing their "name everything after running water" trend.
Where intel chips belong, of course.
By definition, it's external, L3 cache (note that it's packaged within the CPU modules themselves Not another chip on the MB). From:
R C- III/USIIITech.html
http://www.sun.com/products/processors/UltraSPA
it's:
* L1-cache: 64 kB 4-way Data, 32 kB 4-way instruction, 2 kB prefetch, 2 kB Write
* L2-cache Tag RAM and controller on-chip to support 1, 2, or 8 MB external
* L2-cache data SRAMs
* Dedicated 256-bit data path for the L2-cache
When you get down to it, the high end chips actually do mirrored cache. So, it's really 16 megs, with parity error checking, mirrored.
Will it play quake well? Probably not. Will it kick butt in hard core dataset analysis? Heck yes.
Zapman
Seinfeld quotes are expressly forbidden.
Well, it can't be any worse than "Celeron".
Looks like transmeta is in trouble. The description of the chip in the article (shuts down unused parts completely) makes it sound like a low-power application chip. That's exactly what Transmeta is trying to market. An intel offering in that arena can only hurt Transmeta...
PeterM
It sounds like this chip will become 'unexpectedly' popular for desktop systems as well as portables. Things like wireless Ethernet will be useful on the desktop too, and if the chip runs cool then it won't need a noisy fan. (And reduced power consumption means you can use a fan-less PSU as well.)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel making a desktop version of this chip as the Celeron replacement, depending on what AMD come up with.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
(-1: Misquoting Scripture)
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
1. This guy
2. This guy
3. This guy
4. This guy
5. This gal
6. CowboyNeal!
Would you buy a 200mhz Pentium with 6mb of cache? Are you willing to rewrite your entire code base to take advantage of Itanium's architecture? With Itanium chips, those are your options. Wait for Sledgehammer or Whatever Intel cooks up at Ronler Acres to clone x86-64 (AA-64). 6mb sounds exciting until you address the costs associated moving to the Itanium platform.
But wait, with 6mb of cache, you might not have to optimize your existing code for the Itanium. You could just rely on BFI (Brute Force & Ignorance) to solve your troubles.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Isn't Bania that other comedian from seinfeld who was kind of annoying and always stole Jerry's bits?
This actually reminds me of the 486SX which was a 486DX with its math copro deactivated...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Why this story wasn't called "Intel Goes Banias" is beyond me.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
When will Intel start having *cool* processor code names? Like "Death Eagle" or "Killer Robot" or "Massive Rampaging Gorilla"? Sure, "Thunderbird" sounds cool, but "Death Eagle" is way cooler! I bet they could really have a marketing coup by picking better names. Or maybe just marketing them under that name to kids or something, and leaving erudite poosae names for business marketing... or something.
Just think... the Intel Death Eagle 4! They could market it as 2 million KILLERhertz! Yeah!
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
So... does this processor demand 2 dinners at "Mendi" in exchange for an Armani suit?
"Mendi is the best, Jerry... the BEST."
For those of you not familiar with Seinfeld... Kenny Bania was a terrible commedian (hack) that Jerry couldn't stand. Although later, he became Bania's mentor writing the now imoratal "Ovaltine" routine...
"Why do they call it 'Ovaltine'? I mean, the jar is round... the glass is round... They should call it 'Roundtine'."
"This is GOLD, Jerry!"
Ok... so I need help. Damn tivo's ability to record every Sienfeld shown!
Jason
He's totally creeping out the Great One, eh...
This guy, with a PB&J fetish. (.swf file)
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Just look at the other options they were hemming and hawing...:
Fluffernutter
ZippyChippy
SnuggleMuffin
CindiLauper
Not to mention this Goddamn thing. How the hell are you supposed to pronounce that??
Frankly, I'm thankful for Banias...
I can't wait until Intel releases the Shi Tzu chip.
"Derp de derp."
I did a search for 'River names' on Google and found that the Musselshell River was originally called Mah-Tush by the Native Indians in the area.
Damn I wish Intel'd name a line of processors after that... 'Mah-Tush overheated!'
"Derp de derp."
The wireless ethernet is part of the chipset, so basically, it'd be like onboard ethernet, but why on earth would you want a friggin mobile cpu in a desktop? You don't have to worry about power consumption, space limitations, excessive heat, etc.
There are already alternatives for wireless on desktops as well, I believe linksys makes a PCI card for wireless now, you can also buy a pcmcia thingy for a desktop and slip a pcmcia wireless card in that.
The chipset probably won't have AGP or PCI support, or limited, so why on earth would you want it in a desktop?
The article does mention that:
To cut energy consumption, Banias automatically shuts off its different subcomponents when not in use. Although it's designed for notebooks, the chip will also appear in thin "blade" servers.
I'm curious what the cost of turning off the subcomponents is to performance? Anyone have a clue?
What?
And the chipset is, of course, the Odium.
"Main Entry: odium
Pronunciation: 'O-dE-&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, hatred, from odisse to hate; akin to Old English atol terrible, Greek odyssasthai to be angry
Date: 1602
1 : the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance
2 : hatred and condemnation accompanied by loathing or contempt : DETESTATION
3 : disrepute or infamy attached to something : OPPROBRIUM"
--
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Yes, a desktop does have to worry about power consumption and *definitely* space limitations. We're always being told how computers are getting smaller and smaller, yet the desktop PC hasn't shrunk at all recently, if anything it is bigger than ten years ago (minitower cases, larger CRTs).
You don't really need AGP, it's not essential for a video card (unless you play certain games). Not having PCI support is more contentious, but if the stuff you need is on the motherboard you could build a desktop PC without PCI slots. I mean what does the average desktop have beyond video, sound and Ethernet?
I'm thinking of something like the IBM PS/2 E, which was essentially a laptop in a desktop case. It had four PCMCIA slots, an LCD screen and trackpoint keyboard. Video and IDE interfaces were on the motherboard. The machine is very small and, when the HD spins down, completely silent. With its 50MHz 486SLC2 processor it wasn't a speed demon even at the time (1992), but quietness, reliability and a small footprint are sometimes more important than raw speed.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
sure is lots of "+5 funny" goin' to people for saying "huh huh... banana.. huh huh... huh huh ... odius ... huh huh... "
is everybody on this thread six years old or what?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
To cut energy consumption, Banias automatically shuts off its different subcomponents when not in use. Although it's designed for notebooks, the chip will also appear in thin "blade" servers.
That was my thought, too, when I heard about a chip that had a notebook-motivated balance between performance and power consumption.
That it would find some acceptance in the server room, where power dissipation issues loom large.
And then I thought: why stop there?
Why not use these in the next generation desktops, too? So that people won't need those noisy fans and big honkin power supplies? Most people are just running email, Word and a browser.
I mean, as anyone looked seriously at the huge gap that exists between how much of the desktop CPU power is actually needed versus how much is available if the processor runs flat out?
If there were some multimedia hardware implementations in these things, I doubt there would be much need for anyone to go out and buy a 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 or whatever McKinley/Madison.
Those minority applications that really need CPU power should just use a rack of these things.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
With todays chip architectures, you can't simply compare 6MB to 8MB and say 8MB is better. Everything needs to be in balance to get max performance. Cache size interacts with cache latency which interacts with main memory latency which interacts with how many caches you have which interacts with how many cache ways you have which interacts with replacement policy which interacts with branch prediction algorithms which interacts with code and data prefetch algorithms which interacts with the compiler's code optimizations which interacts with the compilers data layout optimizations... etc, etc. And then, let's talk aps-- how big is the data footprint? code footprint? tight loops or lots of branchy non-loop code traces? Float intensive? Lock intensive? look-up intensive? decision logic intensive?. Go spend a couple of years learning the basics of benchmarking, then come back and share your wisdom. This is not a defense of Intel... my criticism would be the same no matter who's products you were comparing so simplisticly.
I'll revise my statement a bit =] Computers could definitely be made smaller and more power efficient (for us power hungry USians, we just don't really care about power consumption too much, we leave our home pcs on 24/7 anyway, eh?) But, smaller pcs cost a little bit more, and the parts (such as a laptop hard drive) are a little more susceptible to damage. If you're that worried about space, go buy a new iMac.
PCI video is nice, but AGP is better. I'd argue for more than just games, but that's all I use that is heavy in the video department so I can't speak for it too much.
Also, is PCMCIA still limited to 11mpbs throughput? I haven't looked up on this lately, but that's another to consider in lieu of lack of PCI =]
Another odd note.. I just bought a small box and put a flex atx in it, so maybe I care about space too =]
What?
I'm curious what the cost of turning off the subcomponents is to performance? Anyone have a clue?
Obviously I don't know the implementation specifics, but I still have a clue.
The normal method of "turning off subcomponents" is to simply gate the clock to those parts that aren't being used that clock. E.g. when running pure integer code, the floating-point unit will not be clocked, saving the power consumed by the local clock drivers, flops, and other circuits by preventing the transistors from switching. If the floating-point adder is used but the multiplier isn't, then the clock is gated to the multiplier. This has essentially zero impact on performance, since the only things it affects are things you weren't using anyway.
As transistors get smaller, leakage current -- which results in power loss even when the transistors aren't switching -- becomes a bigger factor. A more ambitious power-saving method would be to drop the high voltage rail for the subcomponent, eliminating leakage current. This is a lot harder (especially without SOI), and I don't know if anyone does it. Anyway, this would have a performance penalty as you wouldn't be able to turn it on and off on a cycle-by-cycle basis. It would take several (possibly many) cycles for the voltage rail to stabilize.
My money is on it just being some basic clock-gating.
The enemies of Democracy are
You're talking about the chipset - not the CPU. It's very possible, if not likely that they will produce more then one chipset. How many chipsets does the P4 now have?
"Banias" are also the business/trader community in India -- more accurately, the "bania" caste is traditionally the caste of traders and merchants (though these days it doesn't necessarily mean anything).
(or something like that)