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Hybrid Powertrains and Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Posted by michael on from the stick-shift dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes "Nice article from cars.com detailing a panel dicussion with reps from Chrysler Group, Ford, General Motors and American Honda agreeing that hybrid powertrains and hydrogen fuel cells are the future of automotive propulsion, and discussing their companies' different approaches in both areas."

7 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Hydrogen is not free by augustz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Despite folks who see hydrogen as free, current process require significant amounts of energy to get at hydrogen.

    So you are in some senses shifting pollution to a different location (and hopefully reducing it through scale). The advant of a clean and cheap way to get massive amounts of hydrogen is I understand a ways off.

    Love to get links / info to the contrary.

    - August

    1. Re:Hydrogen is not free by hex1848 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Despite folks who see hydrogen as free, current process require significant amounts of energy to get at hydrogen.

      This article was posted on slashdot last week..

      "The most promising source of the hydrogen may be geological "traps" similar to those now drilled for natural gas. Professor Freund said: "One of these natural hydrogen fields is already known to exist in North America, and extends from Canada to Kansas."

      Apparently mining these geological "traps" would be no more energy intensive then current natural gas mining. And with such a vast supply right here in the United States, it like this is an inevitable migration.

      I wonder If the oil companies are starting to look into hydrogen as the next money maker. They have the infrastructure (gas stations, transportation) to do it, it seems like it would be a no brainier to jump right in.

    2. Re:Hydrogen is not free by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So you are in some senses shifting pollution to a different location (and hopefully reducing it through scale).

      I think you are underestimating the value of centralizing production of energy. It is not feasible to produce nuclear-powered cars. However, we can get the same effect simply by making hydrogen-powered zero-emission vehicles and producing the hydrogen with nuclear power. The benefit of centralizing energy production is total freedom in how the energy is produced. It also easier, cheaper, and better for the environment to have one big, expensive, highly advanced pollution scrubber at a fossil-fuel powered plant than to have jillions of less-efficient catylitic converters all over the place, and eventually taking up space in landfills.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  2. Finally! by antis0c · · Score: 5, Funny

    [Refering to what includes Hydrogen] Examples include petroleum, natural gas and biomass -- a nice way of saying plant and animal waste.

    Finally! I can power my DeLorean off a rotting banana peal, coffee grounds, and a quarter can of malt beer.

    --

    ..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
  3. Honda Civic Hybrid by noodlez84 · · Score: 5, Informative

    It may be interesting to some of you that Honda is releasing (for its 2003 model year) a hydrid version of its Honda Civic, named Honda Civic Hybrid. It is a four-door sedan with gas mileage in the upper-40s / lower-50s.

    This proves that electric hydrids are not only available technologically-speaking, but that they are commercially viable. Now imagine what would happen if a tax break (perhaps coinciding with George W. Bush's huge breaks) were offered for electric hybrid vehicles. It would stimulate the economy _and_ lower taxes. Of course, the oil industry wouldn't be too happy because of lower profits. Boo-hoo. Gas mileage has been going _down_ since 1986, when it peaked in the upper-20s (about 29).

    BTW, you might want to read a review of the Honda Civic.

  4. Blessed Altruism by layingMantis · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "GM has taken a little different tack in hybrids," Sloane explained. The researchers asked themselves, "What is it we're trying to solve or fix? Is it that our customers are demanding higher fuel economy? The honest answer to that is no. The cheapest fluid you can get at a gas station is what? The gasoline. It's sure cheaper per gallon than this is," she said, raising some bottled water from the dais. "But we do have a societal interest in reducing the use of fuel. So maybe it's the places where you use a lot of it that you should try to make the reductions."

    Heh. This mildly amusing, and mildy insulting, bit of spin-doctoring aside, it's good to see that the American auto makers aren't actually light-years behind their Japanese counterparts anymore. They've closed the gap to just a few generations. :-)

  5. The Limits of Fossil Fuel Tech by saihung · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While I like these ideas, projects like this make me think that we haven't even approached the limits of efficiency in fossil fuel engines. This thing might be a concept, but VW made it now, it runs on normal diesel fuel, and gets nearly 240 MPG. This is the kind of thing that we need to explore in the near-term. While I think that pie-in-the-sky exotics are sexy, I also think that they won't be ready for production or have a working support infrastructure for years - here is something we could do now to cut our fuel usage.