Making an Independent Web Site?

KinsmanCa asks: "Lately I've been thinking of opening a website - but looking over what web hosts provide, I don't like the idea of having a bandwith limit of so many gigabtyes per month, or having to be mindful of what the provider considers community standards. How can I create a website that's as independent as possible? By which I mean, pay as few bills to as few people as possible, and have to answer to nobody but the law itself as far as my content goes? Assume that I'm willing to pay a lot as far as hardware or initial setup costs go. How much autonomy can a regular person get on the Internet?"

Comments

Simple.

[mindstrm]

Colocate a server somewhere.

Hint: You won't avoid bandwidth fees one way or the other. Bandwidth costs money.
You won't avoid them *especially* if you want to be left alone to do what you want to do.

Buy a server, colocate it somewhere, and set up what you want. Do your own mail, dns, everything.

Or... lease a cobalt raq somewhere, that might be a good start. Quick, easy, your own machine.

Re:Netmar

[Anonymous Coward]

Netmar expressly forbids anyone from using Netmar systems for the propogation, distribution, housing, processing, storing, or otherwise handling in any way lewd, obscene, or pornographic material, or any other material which we deem to be objectionable, including, but not limited to, pornography, satanic materials, any and all materials of an adult nature, defamatory materials, slanderous or libelous materials, and any copyrighted materials for which specific reprint permission has not been obtained directly from the copyright holder(s). The designation of any materials as such described above is left entirely to the discretion of the Netmar management.

Re:There is no getting around bandwidth costs/limi

[the_quark]

Also, there is no getting around the legal problem. The DMCA is written such that anyone that provides bits to you is an ISP, and they can be provided notice of your copyright violations. Once they receive that notice, they must either remove the content (i.e., by getting you to do it via threats, or by cutting off your service), or they are held legally responsible. Since you probably pay them thousands of dollars a year at most, and willfull copyright violation is $25,000 per occurance, your ISP will not back you, and will pull the plug, because it's not worth the risk.

Theoretically, I suppose, you could be a backbone provider and not have anyone upstream. But unless you're planning on buying Sprint or something, you will have to deal with the fact that there is someone upstream who can pull the plug on you solely because your content has been complained about by a copyright owner.

Also, realistically, every provider has some terms of service. Some of them no one on /. would disagree with (preventing spamming, for example), but many of them there might be some controversy (prohibiting un-PC speech). Again, you're not going to be able to avoid these unless you become a backbone provider. Which is probably a bit over your budget ;).

But he does have one thing right...

[Chasing Amy]

He did get one thing right, though--if you want as little to-do over content as possible, take a look at where some of the more "extreme" adult sites get their bandwidth. I'm sure a little research could pull up several potential service providers who probably won't object to your content since they host rape fetish porn and such.

Of course, this is assuming you want to be free of censorship but aren't going to be violating copyrights. The DMCA is unfortunately a powerful enough club that even hosts in Taiwan can be forced to concede to it.

Aside from breaking copyrights, child porn is the only other deal-killer I can think of if you choose a provider who already sells bandwidth to extreme fetish porn sites. Although, from what I hear there are a number of "borderline" child porn websites that get hosted in Russia for a long time without getting pulled, but I won't get into that issue.

Also, if I were looking for a non-censorious service firm willing to host controversial content, I'd look up whoever hosts Xenu, the anti-scientology website--those guys get harassed *a lot*.

So, unless you're looking to violate copyrights or to post child pornography, there should be plenty of potential choices you could look into based on the type of content already hosted or already being given bandwidth.

Bzzt.

[interiot]

1) Even if you have DHCP, you can still set up DNS via one of these guys. Many of them will update names you "own" like rainbarrel.net, not just free names like interiot.dyndns.org.

2) @Home, ATTBI, etc... don't want you running servers. They aren't too strict, but if they see you sucking up much bandwidth, it's perfectly legal for them to ask you to shut down your server or be disconnected. This pretty much rules this solution out due to the "don't have to answer to anyone" requirement.

Not entirely true...

[sterno]

This part of the DMCA is about the only part that's intelligently written (IMHO). It says that somebody who thinks you violated a copyright must send a letter to your service provider certifiying that they believe you have violated a copyright.

The provider, to avoid taking on the liability for contributory copyright infringement, must remove your site unless you certify that you have not violated their copyright. Now that's the thing though, you have to be willing to take the chance in a court of law that you did not violate their copyright. If you aren't, then an ISP will, wisely, remove your offending content.

Now, I say not ENTIRELY true, because I'm sure that a number of providers will be more than happy to shut down your site completely regardless of what you say because it's not worth the hassle to them. That is a risk you take when you walk near the legal grey areas (and boy haven't those grey areas increased in size lately). I mean running any site today that allows for some sort of public user posting runs the risk of them violating copyright on your site. Then you get to have the choice of eliminating their posts or taking a moral stand. Moral stands are expensive...

Re:Get the straight poop before you buy.

[zerocool^]

Read the FAQ.

I'm a systems administrator at Netmar (I'm Will, for those of you who use us).

Specifically read the part about "What does bandwidth cost? / Is bandwidth really unlimited? / How can you offer unlimited bandwidth? "

I made the website (..you shoulda seen the old one). I put that in the FAQ SPECIFICALLY because of people who ask questions like this.

Lately we've had a guy using a lot of bandwidth, and our Sprint link has been up and down more times than I can count (i've received 135 pages today, from 3 monitoring systems, as of 9PM est). So we've ordered more bandwidth. We try to stay ahead of what people are using.

It's a fact, however, that BY FAR the most common cause of spikes in our bandwidth is illegal software. We don't tolerate it, because it hurts our business and because we can't afford to get sued by the MPAA RIAA Microsoft, etc.

I'm one of the guys that makes the decision about who stays and who goes based on TOS violations. It doesn't happen often. You have to be clearly bad. The whole satanic thing is cause the guy that owns the company is a strong christian dude (call and listen to our hold music 540 951 9404). But we don't censor people. At all. www.fredrock.org (my site) is there, and there's "swear words" on the front page.

Anyway, if you, or anyone, has questions, just email staff@netmar.com - we'll be checking it all weekend (we always do).

The difference between us and rackshack (ask www.web-xperts.com dude what he thought about them) is that they don't care. He said he asked a question about some problem he was having or other and they were like "that sux, good luck".
He asked us a question about qmail (plesk uses it) and my co-associate was like "never used it, lemme read about it" and spent the day learning how to use it, so he could help the guy.

We may not know everything, but we know a lot, and if you have something you need us to know, let us know =). We do personal service. We're friends with our customers. We work for you.

~Will

Re:Limitations are built in.

[Thundar]

Actually we have about 50 machines at the moment. That spec is just meant as an example of what our Shared hosting server looks like. Out of curiousity what do you need more ram for in a machine that runs apache? ( Our main database server has 1 gig in it, it is also an ultra-sparc )

We are a small company, I will admit that. Bandwidth is by far what we pay the most for on a month to month basis. However, we want your website to prosper, not feel hindered by our limitations of 5 gigs a month or whatever. If you buy a leased line t3 to your facilities you pay for that t3 whether you are using 1% or 100% of its capacity. Why should we charge you for that? It's our problem, and something you cannot control.

A lot of complains here is see are about our Terms of Service, read them, see what they say. It essentially says that we will not host anything that is pornographic, lewd, or illegal in Durham, NC. ( Where the company was Incorporated ) I can't think of anytime in the last two years we have taken down anyones site because of "objectionable" material. The biggest problem by far we have is people who post up pirated software ( Most recent I know of was OfficeXP ). We do not host porn sites, the owners of the company strickly forbit it.

If you have any questions of comments please let us know, our email is staff@netmar.com. If you want to address it to me I'm Ethan. ( Yes, the same one referred to in the FAQ )

~Ethan

Ugh. . . .

[Com2Kid]

If you really, dead f*cking serious here folks, want to get an INDEPENDENT line;

go find your self a gigapop and pay the per foot fee to run lines to a router which you will pay VERY dearly for; buy rights to an old office building someplace in town, run yourself a line between the Gigapop and the office building, host your data at the office building (assloads cheaper, trust me on this, I do not even think that Gigapops LET you have server machines there, other then load balances and such), and then set up a peering arrangement with the other backbones.

It will run you in the grands per month minimum (hell lucky if you break under a million) but hell, unless the law manages to get EVERY damn last backbone provider to cut your ass off (which pretty much never happens) and you have your server located in a country with 'suitable' legislation (though quite frankly with the price of satellites constantly dropping . . . . heh, any day now, right? Sure the latency sucks, but hey, the legal situation would be fun to play around with. :) ) , you would be home free from anybody f*cking with you.

Please note that Gigapops technically refer to the new I2 POPs, but that Internet backbones tend to come together at them any ways. :)

Basically what you want is a direct relationship with a Tier 1 provider, which is VERY hard to get and VERY expensive, especially since you would not have a backbone of your own to deal with, but I am sure that if you offer them enough money, and especially if you do it a bit 'underhandedly' with one of the smaller tier 1 providers outside of the US.