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Your Fingerprint Buys Groceries in Seattle
lildogie writes: "The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports that a Thriftway grocery store is installing fingerprint scanners that they will use to identify customers." Each customer's payment method (credit, debit) is then automatically applied at checkout. Haven't they seen Charlie's Angels?
Interesting concept. Since it's difficult to forge fingerprints, it may be a viable idea. Still, someone other than you could use their fingerprint tied to your money, which isn't a good idea. Whatever works, though...
Live or die trying.
If this becomes widespread, then fingerprint laundering would become widespread. Don't hold that drinking glass at the restaurant too tightly - the waiter may decide to lift the prints and sell it to the Mafia for money. So people will start wearing gloves. Buy stock in glove copmanies!
"If we can come up with a payment method where there's no opportunity for fraud, then the fees come down," Kapioski said.
That's what they said about ATM's.
That's what they said about Net banking.
Its all cheap and rosy until its mainstream and then BANG up jump the fees.
The technology might be cool, it may be convienient, but dont be fooled into thinking that it will be cheaper.
I'll think of a funny sig later on
That is interesting once, for some time now, it's known that, contrary to popular belief, fingerprints are not unique. If I can use an analogy, the same applies for network card MAC addresses. Btw, the chances of finding similar fingerprints are greater then MAC addresses.
Now, I wonder why people continue to use non unique data as identification methods. It really scaries me, then I think about the kind of trouble one get get into on these issues.
morcego
No, the main advantage is easier tracking of the customer.
Verifying the identity of the customer would be absolutly key here.
(from the article)
"It takes about one minute to enroll," Kapioski said.
I somehow doubt that these people are carefuly examining multiple forms of identification in less than a minute. Also:
"Employees underwent 15 or 20 minutes of training in the system this week."
The system itself might be secure, but identity theft the issue that it seems to be today, I would be most worried about these "18 year old clerks" that can't be trusted with cash taking a 15 minute training course and being put in charge of registration.
It's beyond me how anyone would trust their biometrics to random companies (or other entities). Hell, I wouldn't trust the government with mine (they can take prints from my dead cold hands).
The problem is, that they are not just creating a "hash" from your prints - they need to store the exact print in order for the recognition to work. This means, any script kiddie lucky enough to get into their database, will have the prints.
The next logical step is, to hook this system up to the feds and interpol (post sept-11 this is not fiction!)
The real problem will be, that people trust technology blindly. When I "check out" of the store, putting my thumb on the reader, and the alarm bells sound (and the big "armed and dangerous, shoot on sight" sign starts flashing), guards, police, whatever, will trust the damn machine.
Now if one could trust that the responsible parties would (and could) ensure "absolute security" around their biometrics systems, there really wouldn't be that much of a problem. But believing that IT departments in regular companies (or even government agencies) who all live with finite budgets will ensure that their back-end systems are un-crackable is naiive.
Luckily, the iris scanning in the airports is still optional (and actually sold at an extra charge, as some sophisticated "luxury" - hah!).
"They love it because it takes the cash out of the hands of 18-year-old clerks," Nickerson said.
Okay, I'm all for new conviences, but I think this is quite a bit unfair. I ran a cash register for Marshall's starting when I was 16, and ending when I was 19. My highest drawer variance was 13 cents, and the most expensive thing i took home was a pen from a register.
During my time there, 13 people where fired for dishonesty, and there was no trend in the age- people of all generations got canned for theft, including a 63 year old lady.
Really, I'm 23 now, but is there that much a problem with the youth being dishonest nowadays, moreso then anyone else? Please, do tell me.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
It may be a bit difficult to make the copy of the fingerprint but you got to remmeber that you leave them everywhere. And we all know that a little bit of money is more than enough for people to find out how to make the copy.
Even using cash can seem unsecure if you are parinoid enough. For instance, you withdraw 50$ from an ATM in the mall. Cross reference that with the purchaces made in the next 50 minutes and then filter anything >$75. They can quickly build a list of possible purchaces which will become increacingly accurate over time. The mall has the ability to do this as they probably own the ATM or have access to the log.
Ok, so now you are to the point where you can no longer withdraw cash form the mall ATM. You may be thinking, "I'll just use the QuickieMart ATM down the street." In time, and with better AI software, the places where you get cash annonymously will shrink. Right now, I consder the counter at my local bank the only place to get cash and not have my name cross-referenced to an ammount and then published to the world. But who knows what kind of deal your bank may have with local merchants. Even if they don't share your info, someone clever enough can find your pay scale, subtract your bills, and target you for specific advertisements based on what you will likely buy. Even knowing that it really isn't difficult for a 3rd party to find out how much free cash you have every month can scare the hell out of you.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
Being a seattle resident. . . .
.), those the local store for a while was hosting some sort of cheese festival, it was a paid admittance thing. Ugh.
Thriftway, despite there name, is an establishment that caters to the middle and upper class portions of society. Their customers tend to be retired citizens or soccer moms.
Besides the very fact that I get damn nearly nauseous just going in there (no seriously, I think that they sprayed the damn place with "odor of extravagant spending" or something ), candy bars alone have a 200% price market from the local safeway. Ouch.
They rarely have any sales (or at least any that reduce prices to something halfway decent) and have 'guided tours' of their stores (what the hell ever. . .
Annyways, as I way saying. . . . ok actually no point to this message other then to say that the middle and upper classes suck. -_-
--- teh classissist
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Pardon me, but as, for example this document, and multiple others state. Fingerprint ID has a false positive identification rate just under one percent. And gross biometric accuracy of 1:500.
:))
Simple mathematics applied, when the store gets some success, and it's customer base exceeds 500 or let's say even thousand - you are likely to always match someone else's fingerprint.
Sincerely, fingerprints were not made for shopping.
If they insist on my fingerprints, I'm outta there.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The methods needed are slightly obscure, but its not difficult. You can lift a fingerprint off a glass and make a silicone mold with cheap fotographic equipment and some ingenuity.
... but if they rely on purely optical means anyone with enough time and money can probably fake em with nothing more than a glass with a nice clear fingerprint from his victim.
This will allow you to make 100% accurate new fingerprints (to frame somebody) and has been proven to fake a lot of identification machines. Obviously these machines can make more accurate checks, silicone aint skin
I hope its a PIN, because people in a common zip code tend to use a grocery store(I would think). West Seattle is off the beaten path, likely only West Seattleites will use it, making all zip codes 98116 (or 98106 if they want to drive a few miles). But entering a PIN then placing the finger down sounds fairly safe.