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Will Flash Be Taken Off The Shelf?

Posted by Hemos on from the battle-continues dept.

bugninja writes "According to an article at News.com, Adobe wins 2.8M from Macromedia today for using some patented interface stuff in Flash. But this isn't the end, further legal battles could require that Flash be removed from Macromedia's list of "products for sale". We may not all be Flash lovers, but is it right to take a good product away from so many people who really do like it just because another company's product isn't taking over the market like they hoped it would?" Update: 05/03 13:29 GMT by J : Speaking of Flash, yesterday eEye discovered a very serious security hole in the version of Flash distributed with most copies of Windows. Go download the fixed release.

43 of 488 comments (clear)

  1. I wonder... by fewl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    if everyone's response to Adobe will be as vehement as if Microsoft did it...

    --
    Your actions on earth echo in eternity.
    1. Re:I wonder... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah, responses will mostly look like this:

      4 misguided first posts
      3 W00T!! l33t p05t5
      150+ I hate flash
      75 I love flash, you can do some cool stuff w/it.
      4 I hate Bill G posts
      10 I like Adobe cause of Acrobat posts.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    2. Re:I wonder... by FFFish · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Acrobat alternative: JAWS PDF (and it's arguably better than Acrobat. I find it far less buggy.)

      But it's not a reader, it's a PDF print engine.

      --

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      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  2. patented 'tabbed palettes'? by dirvish · · Score: 3

    How are tabbed palettes patented? That is totally inane! From the article: 'alleging that the user interface of Macromedia's Flash Web animation tool infringed on Adobe's patent for "tabbed palettes," a feature that allows users of design software to rearrange the work space on the PC screen.'

    --
    FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
    1. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by Twylite · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is a tendency, especially in the OSS/FSF world, to under-estimate the significance of innovations in software. While I am largely against the current patent system, my dislikes for it revolve around the duration of patents, and the inability of clerks to apply or monitor the requirements for innovation.

      You consider "tabbed palettes" ludicrous. With the benefit of hindsight, I can hardly disagree ... but were they innovative at the time, before world + dog started using them?

      Maybe a better example (unpatented, fortunately): toolbars. Would those be patentable? Are they (were they) innovative? We managed to get through over 20 years of GUI use without the widespread use of toolbars. Anyone know when they first appeared?

      Assuming a windowed environment, the use of a title bar with some system buttons can be considered obvious: that has been around since the beginning. But the idioms by which we further break down interfaces and make them accessible are developed over time. Which necessarily implies that there is room for innovation: doing something which is NEW, and not just a variation of what has been done before. And that is patentable.

      So we're left with two questions: should such innovation be patentable; and are tabbed palettes new or a variation?

      I assert that GUI innovations SHOULD be patentable (although I'd like to see a much shorter duration on all software-related patents). There are individuals and companies which spend a lot of time, effort and money researching GUI concepts, improving ease of use, and generally developing idioms which gives their software an edge ... but then have that idea reused by others in less than a couple of months, because the development cycle is shorter than the research cycle.

      From Adobe's site:

      Q11: Tabbed palettes are fairly common throughout software applications and operating systems -- what makes Adobe's palettes special and patentable? A: Like Velcro® and Post-It® notes, the very best inventions become so familiar that they are taken for granted. The fact that tabbed palettes seem so natural and common now is a testimony to the Adobe development effort that went into the invention. Adobe's patent describes a unique method that allows tabs within palettes to be customized, separated and reorganized by users. This invention was a significant leap forward for customers' productivity and personalization of the interface.

      As for tabbed palettes ... this is a more difficult one. But first you need to understand the patent. This is not just about a tool dialog with a tab panel in it! The patent is available from Adobe's site, and a set of animations illustrate the infringment.

      As you can see ... this patent is about multiple tool dialogs (palettes) which dock together to form tabbed panels within a single dialog. Suddenly the idea is not so obvious anymore. Dockable components which overlap to save space ...? That's not a universal GUI concept; showing and hiding tool windows or popping up dialogs in a stack is a traditional means to handle this problem. Arguably Adobe DID innovate in this instance.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    2. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by KFury · · Score: 5, Funny

      That set of animations demonstrating the design overlap would have been a lot smaller if they'd done it in Flash.

      --

      Kevin Fox
    3. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by zulux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but were they innovative at the time

      Inovative yes, but worthy of a monopoly of 19 years? No.

      See the way patents use to work is that a company would disclose a non-obvious method, in return for a temporary monopoly. A tabbed interface is quite obvious, and it's disclosure of it's inner workings does nothing for the public good.

      Just by seeing one (tabbed interface), I can duplicate it's effect. I don't need a patent desclosure to figgure it out - so therefore it's a trivial invention, obvious to one skilled in the arts.

      I just hope that an OpenSourse/GPL author get a patent on somting vital to the computing field and brings companies like Adobe too it's knees.

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    4. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by pubjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I assert that GUI innovations SHOULD be patentable (although I'd like to see a much shorter duration on all software-related patents).

      When I was a CS undergraduate, I took the designing user interfaces course. As part of the coursework, I designed a voice activated interface (this was at a time when such things didn't exist). Various other students imagined how other interfaces of the future might work. Some of the ideas we came up with were great.

      Now, we could have all patented the ideas we came up with, and since then I'm sure some of our patents would have been infringed, and we could have licenced and sued. But would it make sense to do that? What if all undergraduate students did it? New developments in the software world would grind to a halt.

      The argument that interface innovations that appear obvious now weren't at the time they were invented is I believe a poor one. A creative person can sit down with a pencil and paper and come up with lots of ideas for possible user interface designs - it's relatively easy for those people who have an inclination for it. You've only got to look at the web sites of some of the more creative web designers to realise that there are many different creative ideas out there for user interfaces. The world would be a poorer place if all these designers patented their ideas and prevented other people from using them.

      The interface that is common today for products like Adobe Photoshop is a cumulation of many different ideas from many different individuals and companies. As a company focused on the creative industy, Adobe should be ashamed of itself for this kind of action.

    5. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by po8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As you can see ... this patent is about multiple tool dialogs (palettes) which dock together to form tabbed panels within a single dialog. Suddenly the idea is not so obvious anymore. Dockable components which overlap to save space ...? That's not a universal GUI concept; showing and hiding tool windows or popping up dialogs in a stack is a traditional means to handle this problem. Arguably Adobe DID innovate in this instance.

      You're joking, right? No, you're claiming that Adobe invented the...wait for it...file drawer! Look carefully at those little tabs on top of the palette. Now look around your office. Gee, what might have inspired the idea of putting little labeled tabs on top of records that are obscured by other records so that they can be quickly indexed? But the idea of having a file drawer simulated in software: now that's innovation! Dockable components that overlap to share space indeed...

      The FAQ mentions a unique method that allows tabs within palettes to be customized, separated and reorganized by users. Who could have thought up such a crazy innovation? [Shuffles through file drawer, reorganizing and relabeling files.]

      Sheesh.

    6. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by Twylite · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree that 19 years of monopoly is unreasonable, hence my assertion that patents should be allowed, but the duration should be much shorter.

      Unfortunately patent law operates on an all-or-nothing principle: a major technological advancement that cost $1 billion and 15 years to achieve receives the same protection as a minor competitive edge which cost $10000 and 3 months.

      As for it being obvious ... creative research is like being on the wrong side of a trap door. Its really hard to go through, but anyone on the other side can easily work out the trick. Innovation is often about doing something which is blindingly obvious, but no-one thought of it before.

      Often just knowing the result and the fact that it can be accomplished makes it easier to reproduce. Chemistry is a good example: a theoretical compound can be proposed and its potential properties suggested, but determing how to manufacture the compound can be a tough problem. A couple of experts look at it and tell you it simply can't be done. Then someone announces they have create it, and cheaply. The experts reevaluate, knowing they must have missed something: it is possible, with current technology, and inexpensive - given those hints they are a lot closer to a solution.

      So, what SHOULD be patentable? Algorithms? RSA is quite obvious to anyone skilled in mathematics ... once they've seen the algorithm. Should the internal combustion engine have been patentable? It was a major technological advancement, it has been the bastion of private transport for the better part of a centuary, but it is arguably just a derivative of a steam piston. Obvious to anyone skilled in mechanics.

      I would like to see OSS obtain some patents and fight fire with fire. But it won't happen. No-one in the OSS world is prepared to put development effort into a product which involves patented technology, because of the stigma the community has attached to patents.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    7. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by tps12 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      See the way patents use to work is that a company would disclose a non-obvious method, in return for a temporary monopoly. A tabbed interface is quite obvious, and it's disclosure of it's inner workings does nothing for the public good.

      Just by seeing one (tabbed interface), I can duplicate it's effect. I don't need a patent desclosure to figgure it out - so therefore it's a trivial invention, obvious to one skilled in the arts.

      That is just a side effect of your knowledge of programming. That is, you might invent a magic salad chopper that most people, when looking at it, won't understand. You haven't patented the chopping of vegetables (just as Adobe hasn't patented the customization of UIs), but you did patent this one machine that chops vegetables. But, someone who has worked in the field (engineering, focusing on turbines or whatever it is your chopper is based on) might see it and think, "ah, of course." Now, should he be permitted to go recreate your invention? Patent law says no.

      --

      Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
    8. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by markmoss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I would like to see OSS obtain some patents and fight fire with fire.

      Note that at least in electronics, corporations use patents to force other corporations to cross-license their patents far more often than they can collect significant royalties or maintain a monopoly using the patent.

      So how could the OSS community use the same principle? Maybe we write a GPL-like patent license -- in exchange for a license to use the OSS patents, you have to put the same or a less restrictive license onto your patents in the same area. The trick is defining "same area"...

    9. Re:patented 'tabbed palettes'? by arkanes · · Score: 3, Informative

      this is one of the many reasons why software patents are bogus - it's not a patent on an invention - that is, a new product that does something new, or something old in a new way. It's a patent on a concept, not an implementation. After playing with Photoshop for 20 minutes I know enough about these tabbed palletes to invent my own that would infringe the patent - yet the actual code I write would bear little similarity to Adobes, the binary I generate would be almost totally different - in other words, I would have invented a new way of doing something old (display tabbed palettes). This is like me seeing someones veggie chopper, deciding that I can make something that would do the same thing, and creating one that, while it does chop veggies, does it in a totally different way than his does. Thats not patent infringement, but in software it is? Please.

  3. Flash: The BLINK tag writ large by rjamestaylor · · Score: 3, Funny

    my favorite quote from Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  4. It would be right... by cyberformer · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...if Macromedia had actually ripped off work that Adobe had put a lot of time and effort into, then shared with the public. (This is what the patent system is for: inventors share their work, and in return get a monopoly for twenty years, after which the work passes into the public domain.)


    Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case. The patent is over "tabbed palettes", a type of user interface design. So it's not an invention, just a ludicrous software patent.


    Many years ago, Apple tried to sue Microsoft for copyright infringement over their user-interface. Had they (ab)used the patent system instead, they might have won, and there would be no Windows.

    1. Re:It would be right... by Ian+Peon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I agree with you, I think that patent's should NOT apply to soft...

      Many years ago, Apple tried to sue Microsoft for copyright infringement over their user-interface. Had they (ab)used the patent system instead, they might have won, and there would be no Windows.

      ...OK, now I'm torn!

      --
      Never never never smoke crack before geometry class!
  5. Prior use perhaps? by Suppafly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    from Macromedia today for using some patented interface stuff in Flash

    One would assume there is prior use for tabbed palettes (which is the interface stuff the mentioned in the article). Adobe has been around for a long time, but I don't see how they can basically patent tabs

  6. This Just In by cscx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apple sues Microsoft over "the close button in the upper corner of the window."

    What's next, the icon? Are the tabs in Mozilla in violation? The concept of "tabs" in "windows" no matter if you call them "palettes" or not, was part of the Windows API as long as I can remember.

  7. good cartoon uses flash! by cdf12345 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know that on Adult Swim, "Home Movies" started using flash for their animation this season and it is wonderful, actually many of the Adult Swim Comedy block use flash if I'm not mistaken.

    This is really a shame, I hope a new version is available soon.

    --
    Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
  8. Re:If it kills Flash, it's ok with me by SnakeStu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Flash is a scourge of the internet

    Flash is a tool. Many (perhaps all) tools can be abused. Saying that Flash is bad because too many monkeys use it in ways that are totally inappropriate is like saying e-mail is bad because too many monkeys use it for spam (i.e., a way that is totally inappropriate).

    --
    No Laughing Allowed!
  9. Tiptoes by jcsehak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the equivalent of a car company patenting their cup holders and suing any other manufacturer who put them in. Who's the real loser in the end? As Macromedia CEO Rob Burgess points out, "Ultimately, it is our customers, and particularly our mutual customers, that will be harmed." Yup, half of us wind up with burnt, coffee-stained crotches.

    So what, now no software developer can include tabbed palettes? Wouldn't it be nice if Adobe said "Hey, Macromedia, you've used one of our ideas, but that's alright, we'll use one of your ideas, and both our products will be the better for it." No more can people stand on the shoulders of giants. Today, you have to stand on your tiptoes. Either that, or knock everyone else down.

    Well Adobe, for 2.8m, you've impeded the progress of software development, created enemies, and left your customers with a bad taste in their mouths. And you know what? I bet a lot of people will feel a lot less bad about pirating your software after this. I hope it was worth it.

    --

    c-hack.com |
  10. Flash authoring app != Flash plugin by mcasaday · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Even if Macromedia was prohibited from selling the Flash authoring tool this would not necessarily have any affect on the browser plugin itself. I don't see what would keep Macromedia from developing a new version of its authoring application with an interface that doesn't employ tabbed palettes.

    Oops, they've already done just that.

    I wonder how this would affect Flash MX. It doesn't feature the UI elements that Adobe claims to have invented. (And thank the gods for that, I hate tabbed palettes as much as most of you Slashdotters hate the Flash plugin itself.) Would Macromedia only have to pull Flash versions 5 and earlier off the shelves?

    What a waste of resources such lawsuits are. Companies squabbling like children, running complaining to mommy and daddy every time one of them has any kind of problem. Grow up or go to bed without any supper, I say!

    1. Re:Flash authoring app != Flash plugin by artemis67 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Even if Macromedia was prohibited from selling the Flash authoring tool this would not necessarily have any affect on the browser plugin itself. I don't see what would keep Macromedia from developing a new version of its authoring application with an interface that doesn't employ tabbed palettes.

      Oops, they've already done just that

      Hmmm... Where have I seen that pallette before? Oh yeah, right here.

      Better keep those lawyers around a while longer Macromedia. :-D

      Then again, Microsoft is the king of interface ripoff, maybe they'll just be flattered...

  11. Re:Patents: Defend them or lose them. --- Bzzzt! by ClarkEvans · · Score: 5, Informative

    . A key part of having a patent is defending it. If Adobe fails to defend their patents, they'll lose them.

    Bzzzt. Try again. This is true for Trademarks but not Patents or Copyright.

  12. Re:Flash Blows! Choose SVG! by XBL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe I would if a program could produce SVG and JavaScript to do the same stuff as Flash, and as good as Flash. Also a new plug-in would be needed.

    Not likely to happen anytime soon, if ever. Plus if it did, Flash would still be better in most ways.

  13. Not All Tabbed Palettes� by deharlow · · Score: 5, Informative

    From Adobe's FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/adobefacts/faq.html#Q11 they are not claiming to have a patent on all tabbed palettes but only on those that can be customized, separated, and reorganized by users. Also for all those who say Adobe is claiming a patent in tabs in general check out Question 17 on the FAQ. Lastly check out the pictures that Adobe has on the site showing the problems...I bet the court took on look at those and had a lot of questions. Daniel BTW Now whether this patent should have been issued is a whole different matter and I am sure that others will cover it.

  14. Oh, the hypocracy! by Otis_INF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...but is it right to take a good product away from so many people who really do like it just because another company's product isn't taking over the market like they hoped it would?"
    Suddenly, 'Internet Explorer' comes to mind, looking from an average Joe Windowsuser POV.

    --
    Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
  15. OK, probably a troll, but... by tlambert · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think the most useful thing anyone has ever implemented in "Flash" is the "Bypass Flash intro" button...

    -- Terry

  16. ...here's a rant in support of flash... by jdbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and this is coming from someone who just spent several hours learning all about the painful ins & outs of cross-platform/cross-browser Flash player plug-in detection...

    For certain applications, Flash works wonderfully _and_ far better than anything else out there. I am thinking in particular of short animations (with or without limited interaction) that can demonstrate ideas/diagrams/or tell a story.

    BTW, I work in educational R&D so I see great examples of this stuff used all the time to complement web-based curricula. Sure, it can't be indexed by a search engine, but it's there to _illuminate_ the ideas stated in the text; i.e. to enhance it, not to replace it.

    Sure, Flash can be abused (as many advertisers have done, and designers who want to use it as their entire tookit); However, the Flash-haters on /. are confusing the abuse of a general purpose tool (with some flaws that are being corrected) with the "dastardly deeds" done with it.

    BTW, how does /. usually respond to attacks on general purpose tools that some people are attacking based on a relatively minor domain of applications that they dislike? (hint: CSS, copyable-CDs, PVRs, reverse-engineering tools...) ...Sigh...

    Yes, most Flash ads suck. And so do 90% of Flash-heavy sites. This problem won't be corrected by removing a particular tool - the crappy designers will just migrate to SVG/Real/WM/etc. Besides, banning/spitting on something disliked is the RIAA/MPAA way of doing things.

    If we're such geeks we should be proposing/creating superior tools that are better focused on what Flash is best at, or improving Flash ourselves. Nope, I guess it's just easier to bitch about it.

  17. Flash MX won't be taken off the shelf... by silhouette · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...because it doesn't use tabbed palettes. Those were introduced in Flash 5, and replaced in MX by a windowish-docking system. I would wager that Macromedia's decision to change the interface in MX was based far more on the lawsuit than on user feedback.

    Adobe is seeking an injunction preventing Macromedia from selling "the infringing software" - which is, like I just said, Flash 5. Notice that Macromedia released Flash MX within the last month, and are now going to be actively phasing out their Flash 5 product and pushing MX instead. Is this good timing just a coincidence? You tell me. So what I'm wondering is what Adobe could possibly do to further harm the Flash product line (besides the $2.8mil in damages, of course).

    The original Legend of Zelda in Flash MX: a prototype

    --
    Experts agree: everything is fine.
  18. Oh No! by NeuroManson · · Score: 4, Funny

    How am I gonna watch Osama Bin Laden In a Blender now???

    --
    Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
  19. Re:Macromedias Other products use Tabs too. by Quila · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's detachable tabs with build-your-own-palette. Adobe specified early Excel tabbing in their patent as prior art they were deviating from with their own invention.

  20. Microsoft may be next by leonbrooks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If these idiots win against Macromedia (plugin required to view this message because format is not open), that will make it easier for them to take on Microsoft next. Their patent does seem rather trivial, though, and you could probably bring it down in flames by pointing out that it's just mimicing real-life paper layouts (ie is not in principle new).

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  21. Re:i'd also note that... by jtrascap · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually it's not flash - it's their own package called Live Motion. It produces Flash-compatible graphics and SVG-based anims. SVG is open-source and where Adobe wants to go. Flash is binary and somewhat more constricted and where Macromedia keeps it's cashflow. Adobe wants to kill 2 birds with one stone...

  22. I personally invented tabbed palettes in 1986 by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not saying I was the first one to do it, but I did and I can prove it. That predates the patent by ten years.

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  23. Hmm, so UI design is fair game... by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    OK. Idea. Let's see what you folks think about this one.

    This case has established a precedent that elements of UI design can be copyrighted, lame as this decision is.

    Wouldn't this set up the foundation for a lawsuit against Microsoft for ripping the whole WIMP (windows, icons, menus, pointers) paradigm from Apple? Who in turn could get sued by PARC, I think it was?

    If my reasoning here is correct, then we'd have a win-win situation; MS is sued and that damn OS is pulled from the shelves, or MS wins the court case and Macromedia gets the Adobe sentence nullified.

    Any lawyers skulking about to comment?

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  24. Already been done by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's happened already, ask Google about it.

    The result was that MS said "well if you fuck with us, we'll fuck with you- drop this or we'll
    stop making Office for Macintosh."

    Apple bowed under the pressure, and nothing really was made of it.

    --

    What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

  25. Re:Cup-holders by billh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I take it your country has no traffic? Some countries do, you know. Us Americans sometimes like to sip coffee while we are zooming along at 2mph on the way to work.

    I hear some people also like to purchase beverages from restaurants for later consumption.

  26. Not a good idea by shawnmelliott · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is not a good idea for Adobe since you have to consider who their market is

    Flash does something that most other products are NOT able to do. Make interactive sites easy enough for even GRAPHIC developers to create. Most of the people I find that LOVE Flash love it for it's ease of use. All of those people are graphic designers the same people who buy Adobe Photoshop. Adobe has a bad PR hurricane just ready to brew over this if they decide to push for Macromedia to pull Flash

    Also, what I find absolutely hilarious is Adobe's Front Page which, of all things, uses Flash

  27. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  28. Adobe Plays Microsoft's Game More than you Think by arloguthrie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hate posting this late in the game on a topic -- I worry no one will read it -- I don't think anyone has made this correlation yet.

    I agree that Adobe suing Macromedia for cramping their style is and should be a crock. Adobe is playing the same bullying tactics as another large company.

    Take, for example, the Photoshop monopoly. Used to be that if you wanted to bevel or automatically add shadows to items, you had to buy a third-party plug-in. Now those features are built in and have been since 5.5

    If you wanted to catalog your images, you had to purchase a third-party app like Extensis Portfolio. Photoshop 7 includes those.

    Natural media? Used to need Painter. Now Photoshop 7 has that, too.

    And somebody must have come up with the idea of slicing images before Adobe did. Hell, before Macromedia did.

    Fortunately for us graphic designers, we will use the right tool for the job. We learn that in school when we have to choose between graphite and charcoal in Design 101. Therefore, companies like Alien Skin, Corel, and Extensis aren't hurt dramatically by Adobe pulling the Microsoft "freedom to innovate" integration game.

    But my point is that Adobe steals features from everyone else. It's hypocritical of Adobe to sue someone for stealing their feature. And it proves the ignorance of software patents.

    Adobe, a company whose products I use every day to pay my bills, a company whose products I enjoy using, abuses their place in the market. Ahh, the idyllic socialist dreams of nerds...

    --
    ----------
    Cheese it! It's the FEDS!
  29. I tried to complain to Adobe on their site but ... by crovira · · Score: 3, Interesting

    they don't have any feed-back that's not related to SELLING their products.

    But it did have their address so I'll write something and send it via snailmail.

    This patent/copywrong crap is the type of bad corporate citizenship that Microsoft has taught businesses.

    I didn't pay for their Adobe Type Manager on my Mac but I WILL write to Apple and suggest that they look for some open source alternative.
    This is getting fuckin' ridiculous.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  30. What a stupid sentiment by Stickerboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "We may not all be Flash lovers, but is it right to take a good product away from so many people who really do like it just because another company's product isn't taking over the market like they hoped it would?"

    Let's see...

    "We may not all be GNOME lovers, but is it right to take away XYZ software from so many people who do like it just because it contains GPL violations?"

    "We may not all be Netscape lovers, but is it right to take away Internet Explorer from so many people who do like it just because Microsoft is an abusive monopoly?"

    The popularity of a software has no bearing or relevance in this case or any legal case involving its use.

    --
    Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.