Slashdot Mirror
Salon on Video Games and Free Speech
EyesWideOpen writes: "There is an article at Salon that covers a U.S. District Judge's ruling that computer games don't deserve First Amendment protection. The ruling is in response to The Interactive Digital Software Association's request for the dismissal of an ordinance that requires parental consent before children under 17 can buy or play violent or sexually explicit video games. From the Salon article: 'From his ruling, [US District Judge] Limbaugh appears to believe that no amount of contextual information, or additional narrative, in a game is enough to make it a work of art or expression worthy of the name 'free speech.'' The judge's deliberations were based in part on his review of four games: 'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'."
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# /usr/bin/bash /dev/semen > vagaina
mknod penis 459043 545
mount vagina
cat
umount vagina
Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?
See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.
Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.
I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.
Thankyou for your time.
How To Handle A Troll
."
... frankly a bad porno movie is generally more cerebrally stimulating than a troll.
(Must I? Can I wear gloves? Which brand of disinfectant do you use to clean up and prevent infection Debra? Inquiring minds and all that...SimiMike)
The MOST important rule for handling trolls is not to feed them. You might say, "I don't feed them!" But most of us do even when we don't think we are. So here are some rules for how to not feed the trolls.
1. Learn first to recognize the troll. They are the ones who post flame bait to start a controversy. Generally a search for their posts (such as AOL's QUICK SEARCH, will show they have no other posts or only similar flame bait. Sometimes they have 2 or 3 flamers suddenly on a board...all beginning at the same time, often supporting the other screenname...too stupid to know people will know they are one person of trollbuddies. They are the ones who have the same thing being said to them over and over and over. They are the ones pretending to not understand, or twisting posts in order to continue their trolling dialog. Do not imagine that YOUR response will be the one that will help them to GET IT. Not even if you roll them in glue and punt them into the Clue Dumpster* will they GET IT. They do not want to GET IT, they want to GET YOU. Don't be troll food.
+
N 2
Note: some may need the Clue Landfill... the dumpster just won't be enough.
2. When you realize they are a troll, do not respond to personal comments from them. This is how they hook you back into feeding them! Yea though they toss them to you like gumdrops leading to the witch's ginger bread house, ignore them! Like my buddy says, "Trolls (like Bad Farts) ONLY go away when completely and utterly ignored and no one posts anything on any of their posts...any "fanning of the fumes" just gets them all happy to offend all over again
3. Learn to ignore them. You can do it. If you can't, learn to use the filters so you don't even have to SEE their posts. Its quite refreshing, knowing they are starving.
4. Be prepared for them to change names and take a fresh run. Learn to use AOL search to find out if this NEW troll has ever posted before, or if this new troll is a fungus offshoot of the old troll everyone caught on to. Add these new trolls to the filter list.
5. Like my buddy said, "ignore them or they will keep coming, and coming and coming (sounds like a bad porno movie, doesn't it?)"
6. If you simply CANNOT stand to not respond on occasions, make your response low calorie. Remember the ignore buttons and pass them out:
first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
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by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM
nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.
with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM
Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.
He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).
IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.
I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,
Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?
See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.
Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.
I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.
http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit /
Rea
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
12 replies beneath your current threshold.
574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM
nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.
with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM
Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.
He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).
IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.
I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,
Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?
See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.
Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.
I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.
http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit /
Rea
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
12 replies beneath your current threshold.
first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM
nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.
with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM
Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.
He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).
IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.
I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,
Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?
See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.
Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.
I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.
http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit /
Rea
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
12 replies beneath your current threshold.
first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM
nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.
with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM
Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.
He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).
IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.
I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,
Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?
See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.
Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.
I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.
http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit /
Rea
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
12 replies beneath your current threshold.