Apple (R)ejects Copy Protection

Frogbeater writes "Apple keeps on keeping on with the anti-copy protection crowd by using their technical info database as a platform for denouncing the artists who are getting on the bandwagon." I like this line from the technote: You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Indeed.

Comments

TiBook CD/DVD eject issue

[ubiquitin]

So that's why those CD's weren't ejecting! ;) For the uninitiated, shift-Command-1 on Macs does a force media eject.

Re:TiBook CD/DVD eject issue

[dtfarmer]

So that's why those CD's weren't ejecting!

I think the important point is that these are not CD's....

Re:TiBook CD/DVD eject issue

[SPYvSPY]

It's old Apple shortcuts from the 1984 days. There are hundreds of them, it seems. You don't need them, and you prolly won't notice them if you don't want to. But they're handy for "power users" (I know, I know).

Go Apple!

[mkoz]

It is important to make these stands.

>The audio discs are technically and legally not Compact Discs (CD format)

I am not sure how much this will really matter in the end, but apple's stance on Rip. Mix. Burn. Has been impressive and I wish them the best. Since I do firmly believe that fair use does mean I can play it on my computer and put it on an mp3 player.

Re:Go Apple!

[davecl]

This isn't all a good thing. If you read to the end of the apple support page, you find the sting in the tail. Since these are not legally CDs, trying to play one in your Mac constitutes improper use. This menas you get to void your warranty and have to pay any repair charges.

Now this is partly apple covering their backside, which is not unreasonable, but it could all get very interesting if someone with a significant repair bill and a lot of annoyance starts firing lawyers from the hip to get someone else to pay. Who will they go for - the record company, the people who devised this particular anti-computer scheme, the artists...

And more importantly, would they have a case???

Re:Go Apple!

[Polo]

I think they have to do that. Otherwise, they might have to pay for the Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich that was mistaken for a compact disk as well.

Re:Go Apple!

[jcr]

Sure, they'd have a case. The record company is offering a product with an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose (i.e, it *looks* like a CD, so it should play just like my other CD's, right?)

An itty-bitty notice on the back of the disk that says it doesn't play in computers just isn't sufficient warning that the disk is in fact "vandalware" that could damage my equipment.

Re:Go Apple!

[GutBomb]

They do not claim to be a compact disc either. Look closely at the disc, do you see the "Compact Disc" logo on it? It is compatible with some compact disc plyers but does not claim to be a compact disc in any way.

Re:Go Apple!

[Steve B]

But the discs do say, "Will not play on PC", so Sony can deflect the blame anyway.

I doubt that would be sufficient to get them off the hook, as the damage goes far beyond what is implied by the warning. At a minimum, they'd need a prominent warning that the "CD" can cause your computer to lock up and require professional servicing.

To get an idea of where the baseline lies, read some of the warnings on products that everybody with three firing neurons knows are dangerous if misused..

Danger Will Robinson...

[h0tblack]

...using come copy-protected cd's in the new flat-panel iMacs can be a VERY expensive mistake. Certain cd's cause the cd drive to jam and then the machine refuses to reboot. This means you have to take it to an Apple Dealer (or do it yourself it you know what your doing) to take the thing apart and manually wind the eject cogs. Seems there's no option for the good old fashioned paper-clip trick with these drives.
More details here:
http://uk.eurorights.org/issues/cd/docs/cel dion.sh tml

Re:Danger Will Robinson...

[tarkap]

You can still do the paperclip trick on a SuperDrive iMac though. Stick it in the right slot under the cd tray.

I just looked at the cdrw model, and yup.. no hole likes the paper clip trick :(

thanks apple.

Re:Danger Will Robinson...

[gerardrj]

I do believe the old "mouse button down on boot" trick still works to eject all removable media at boot.
This is a firmware thing, so it should work before the OS even attempts to search for a boot drive.

No?

so how?

[Polo]

how does this lock up the system?

is it intentional?

Re:so how?

[keesh]

Essentially, certain markers which should be present aren't. This can cause the machine to get confused, and nasty thinks can happen -- the laser might move futher than it should, for example, and this can cause all sorts of confusion for the OS.

If you want details, Google is your friend.

Certain discs, huh?

[the phantom]

Shakira?
Jennifer Lopez?
Celine Dion?

Wow, I thought it would eject these at the mere thought of having to play them. I almost feel sorry for the poor iMacs that are forced to eat these.

Getting the CD Out

[The Donald]

I'm worried for all the people out there who are not all that techo savy. If the CD will not eject, then they'll either have to take it out themselves, or bring it to an Apple Repair Shop. Quoting Apple's support page on this:

If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.

Now, for a new user. If you go to Best Buy and puck up a copy of Celine Dion: "A New Day Has Come" (Don't know why, but that's a different story), it will look like a CD, smell like a CD, so to the average user, it's a CD. Just becuase the Disc doesn't have the Compact Disc Logo on it wont mean people will undersand that it's really not a CD.

I think a lot of new users will think Apple is at fault for adhearing to the standards; and expect the problem to be fixed at no cost to them.

Re:Getting the CD Out

[oyenstikker]

"users will think Apple is at fault for adhearing to the standards"

Sad but true. Same people who think Mozilla is at fault for adhereing to the standards and breaking sites written for IE. Same people who think Firestone is at fault for sticking to their tire design and breaking when used with a very badly designed product (You didn't hear about those tires blowing on any of the millions of non-Fords they were on). People accuse the most obvious thing. My browser isn't working, must be the browser. The tire blew up, must be the tire. The CD drive got stuck, must be the CD drive.

Re:Getting the CD Out

[h0tblack]

Yep, it's a real shame that again lack of knowledge/information is likely to cause confusion. For those in the know, cd's have long been a bizzare and often black art (especially in the early days of burning). Now companies such as Epic and Columbia (read: Sony) are selling things that in the eyes of 99% of the population are Audio-CD's. People don't don't tend to care what format a cd is in, but if it works in their cd-player, then they expect it to work in their computer's cd player. Selling non red-book format cd's in this way, causing the potential to damage hardware is a extreme case of taking advantage of the general public IMHO. Interestingly enough, it's not just computers that have problems, many other cd-playing devices have problems, altho non as drastic as the iMac it appears. (Altho you can nicely crash an x-box using a celine dione cd I believe).
Now, I wonder how Sony made devices handle these non-cd's ;)

Re:Getting the CD Out

[Surlyboi]

How are they adhering to standards by providing a device which does not fail gracefully? I don't mind if the drive can't play these CDs, but if the device is going to suffer serious damage as a result of putting something in which has the exact same form factor as a proper CD and can only be differentiated by putting it in the device, then Apple has some bad engineering on its hands. Apple blaming this on the pseudo-CD makers is just passing the buck, sorry.

Not really, Apple's not the only one that has
problems like this, Sony's electronics arm
has complained of this as well. (Which I find
funny, considering Celine Dion is published by
Sony's music arm, left hand not knowing what the
right's doing much?)

These discs are crashing machines regardless
of maker. At least Apple's being up front about it.

Re:Getting the CD Out

[pudge]

If some black-hat hackers were stealthily distributing CDs designed to exploit the CD standards to make mechanisms fail, you'd probably say these guys were crooks. But if Sony does the exact same thing, it's the PC manufacturer's fault? Besides, Apple didn't design a one of their CD mechanisms, they are all third-party, and PC drives can be damaged too.

Re:Getting the CD Out

[h0tblack]

heh :)
question is, can we use the Aibo SDK to get it to recognise a copy protected cd, bark and urinate on it?

Re:Getting the CD Out

[TheAJofOZ]

If some black-hat hackers were stealthily distributing CDs designed to exploit the CD standards to make mechanisms fail, you'd probably say these guys were crooks. But if Sony does the exact same thing, it's the PC manufacturer's fault? Besides, Apple didn't design a one of their CD mechanisms, they are all third-party, and PC drives can be damaged too.

And guess who makes a lot of those CD drives? That's right, it's Sony.... Not sure what's in the new systems, but my B&W G3 came with a Sony CD Rom, my TiBook has a Matshita drive though.

Re:Getting the CD Out

[Triv]

my TiBook has a Matshita drive though. Inidentally, Matshita's a wholly owned subsidiary of Panasonic. They made most Macintosh drives - My Slot-loading iMac's got a matdrive. :)

Triv

Re:Getting the CD Out

[Refrag]

Yeah, I never understood that. Ford develops a vehicle (Explorer) with poor stability. To resist against rollovers, Ford recommends their customers under-inflate their tires rather than fix the design. Tires weaken (obviously) and vechicles wreck. For some reason the mass public and press believe Ford that the problem is with the tires and not the shoddy vehicle.

Ironic

[dumbArtMajor]

The following discs are known to use the copy protection:
Shakira: "Laundry Service"
Jennifer Lopez: "J To Tha L-O!"
Celine Dion: "A New Day Has Come"

"These people resemble musicians but technically are not."

Re:Ironic

[dalassa]

I had a moment of horror when I realized I owned one of those CDs, execpt it played fine in my G4's super drive and I already ripped it. So its not exactly very well protected is it?

I think this teaches me to look far more carefully at the labels. I do not want to toast my drive.

Welcome to hell.

[phagstrom]

This must be what hell is like....

Having a Jennifer Lopez CD in the drive and NOT being able to get it out.

I would have to opt for a small tactical nuclear weapon. The CD is getting out of the drive - one way or the other.

Re:Welcome to hell.

[belroth]

This must be what hell is like....

Having a Jennifer Lopez CD in the drive and NOT being able to get it out.

Could be worse, you could be able to play it too...

Apple sould seek compensation

[WalletBoy]

Apple should at least try to seek some compensation from the RIAA for all the wasted man-hours spent taking support calls for people using these non-standard CDs.

Request for clarification

[GORDOOM]

In this article, and in the ensuing discussion, the assertion has been made and supported that these particular optical discs are not technically CDs. My understanding, however, was that these discs were CDs, but did not comply with the Red Book standard (and thus could not be called CD:DA discs).

A minor distinction, I know... either way, these things are not true audio CDs, and should not be advertised as being such. But could someone please clear this up for me?

Re:Request for clarification

[GORDOOM]

My understanding is that the Red Book standard defines the Compact Disc: Digital Audio format specifically. In other words, Red Book specifically defines, not the Compact Disc, but the format used to store audio data on a compact disc, thus making it an "Audio CD." It is this standard to which the "copy-protected CDs" do not comply. For this reason, they can be properly called CDs, but not "Compact Disc: Digital Audio," and so cannot bear Philips's logo.

Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Re:Request for clarification

[foniksonik]

This is related to the IP involved and the fact that the two owners of the Trademark Compact Disk are Phillips and (some company i can't recall at the moment, maybe Sony).

If the owners of the TM don't want to license it to the Copyright Protected Disk manufacturers then their products can't be called CDs.

That's what I know about it.

Easy way to disable most CD copy protection system

[Lars T.]

Articles (A) and (B) (both in German, with pictures). Simply use a felt tip pen or a Post It (may come lose, so watch out) to cover up the start of the "bad" track. Currently works with all CD copy protection systems but "MediaCloq", including "Cactus Data Shield" and "Key2Audio" (the one Sony uses).

damage?

[GutBomb]

I am not in support of these pseudo-cds at all, however no damage occurs at all. Sure the computer acts funny while the disc is in the drive and may noy start if the disc is in the drive, but it starts working normally again after it has been ejected.

Write a driver, apple.

[cryptochrome]

Boy, if I bought these CDs I'd be pissed. Apple should write a driver to recognize, read, and rip these CDs, just to piss off the RIAA. Breaking the computer is unacceptable.

Seriously now... the tech industry has had to put up with a lot of shit from the (comparatively puny) content industry... if they wanted they could probably kill the music industry in short order by providing tools, lobbying, and anti-marketing. Show 'em who's boss.

Re:Write a driver, apple.

[Dahan]

it would be in violation of the DMCA, or circumventing a copy protection scheme.

Only if that's the primary purpose of the driver... just say that the driver is a fix for the very serious problem of not being able to eject the CDs. When users install the update, they notice that iTunes just happens to be able to rip the CDs too.

Re:Where To Find Shortcut Key List???

[SPYvSPY]

For OS X, I recommend David Pogue's Missing Manual.

OpenFirmware

[theolein]

I liked the OF hack: eject cd
Very simple and very nice in an emergency, since it runs before the computer boots. Maybe some ingenious person will be able to write a little forth code for OF to disable the copy protection mechanism since AFAIK OpenFirmware conrols I/O.

I smell a class-action lawsuit

[Wise Dragon]

If my mac got damaged by one of these pseudo-cds, I'd be tempted to sue the record company.