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Swiss ISPs Must Archive E-mail For 6 Months
the_danielsan writes: "I first thought this (this ain't yellow press) would be a joke, but apparently swiss ISPs are now enforced to monitor all outgoing mails up to a period of 6 month - at their own cost! sunrise, a larger ISP, speaks of 50,000 to 100,000 CHF (that's about 31,405 to 62,810 USD according to my currency calculator) to update their systems. heise Newsticker has the same story running (both German). I can't believe this." For non-German readers, babelfish does a decent job with these articles.
WTF? I mean, is this really possible? I'm quite shocked by the devaluation of democratic rights around the world.
In the US, though we're fond if whining about our government, we tend to be more on the free and chaotic side of the spectrum. Not all the way, of course, but at least on that side.
Europeans have been so accustomed to the idea of trading freedom for security, though, that they willingly allow these things to happen. It's just another day in the life for them.
Our country may not be as good as it could be, but thank God we're not socialists.
Got Rhinos?
Well, they do not want to archive the contents, just the header data.
Umm, Switzerland is definitely NOT a socialist country!
I think you'll find that the Swiss tend to be
very supportive all the silly laws the government
passes. My favorite is that you must turn your
car off if you are sitting at a light for longer
than 30 seconds or so. They're not as fond of their
personal freedoms as we are in the states.
not read the article but what defines an ISP and at what level would the capture be?
I mean I don't use my ISP's mailserver directly as a relay I use my own SMTP server, do I become my own ISP? Or will my upstream provider be required to scan all of my port 25 ourgoing traffic too?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Just pass the charges for implementing the system and for storing the data onto the users with a full explanation that they are paying to be in compliance with the legal provision.
They're the voters - let them taste a little of their government in action, let them feedback as they deem fit if they find the added "value" of this measure insufficient relative to its costing them.
Representative government in action!
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Why does this comment deserve a -1 moderator edit? Oh yeah, you don't like the poster. I forgot.
Seriously, it scares me what's happening in the world. I think however, we should be smarter than all "up there" guys that do want to take away our right to privacy!
Let's only send encrypted mail. And I mean everyone and always!
The one proven email service provider I know that uses the highest in cryptography is called CryptoHeaven. There is also Hushmail, (but I don't know much about these guys)... and of course for more advanced users our good old friend PGP.
This move seems similar in goal to Carnivore, except it shifts the burden to the poor ISPs who have to pay the costs. I question the chain of custody issues with any "evidence", although I'm ignorant of the Swiss legal system.
Reading the articles there doesn't seem to be enough detail on what e-mail is, so I will assume it's rfc822-style traffic. The obvious way to avoid this law would then be to not use that kind of message traffic. What an opportunity for one or more of the Swiss ISPs to change the landscape of network messaging.
It's time for the existing email infrastructure to wither and die since it's been overrun by spamming and virus delivery.
For your information, most Swiss households have some sort of semi-automatic with a few cases of ammunition somewhere. The Swiss army is organized on a reservist basis, and reservists are supposed to be able to get to mobilization centers even if they have to fight their way there, therefore the requirement.
Now, on the other hand, they have an order of magnitude lower violent crime rate than the US has, but that's because of cultural differences, not for lack of available weaponry. Yeah, strange.
You may think you have fooled everyone into thinking that you are not The WIPO Troll. You are mistaken. Your trolling days will haunt you forever. Do not forget it.
They *are* going to use this to track down and execute spammers, right? Oh please, oh please!
If you send something unencrypted via e-mail you should expect it to have about the same privacy as a post card. If you're shocked that a government entity is tracking your e-mail then you are very naive.
"God is dead." - Frederik Nietzsche
How do you define email?
'Electronic comunication system where messages are stored for later transmition to one or more recipiants'
Thats the best I can come up with, unforutnately it covers many more things than email, and doesn't
cover the case when email is a direct peer to peer operation.
If the government wants ISPs to store 6 months of outgoing mail, then the Government can bring in a storage array at they're own cost. I work for an ISP in Canada, and if the Gov here wanted us to store all of our email, I would't have a problem storing it on something that they provide... but the idea of them telling us that we need to buy a storage array because *someday* they *might* want to look through it is crazy.
In the UK we dream of only 6months retention, a UK ISP must keep a copy of the Network Traffic they carry for a period of not less than 7 years, just incase of investigation. Failure to do so is a criminal offense.
The Home Office seems to be dilligently ignorant of the fact that is actually impossible in practice to comply with this law and the directors of every UK ISP are breaking the law.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/ripact.htm
Write scripts that continually send out emails to blackhole addresses in the sky. Distribute said scripts widely. Make it enormously expensive for ISPs to implement this crap. Flood their freakin' file servers. Not the ISP's fault, but at some point people have to insist that their vendors quit knuckling under, and make them pay a price if they do. It worked in America in the 1770s, when businesses that went along with British edicts caught all kinds of hell...and it'll work today.
Here in Zürich, where I live, at 5pm in the afternoon I sit in the same traffic jams that I would be sitting in in any city in the world. No one switches off their engines at the traffic lights anymore. That way a waste of time anway and impossible to enforce.
The swiss political system provides for initiatives with referendums which are legally binding. Anyone can start one and it gets voted on if there are more than 100 000 votes (Switzerland is small). What that means is that all you need to do is start an initiative and collect signatures. If it gets through you do your best to inform the public that their privacy is in danger (there is always a rundown of the initiatives sent to voters but many don't bother to read them). If people are worried enough, out the window, the law goes. End of story.
This thread seems limited to e-mail. If any of you actually bothered researching this, instead of being extremely sensationalist & reactionary, then you would know that the rules come in to effect next year, not this year, and it does not only apply to e-mail, but also telephone conversations, etc.
I personally agree with it. Some of you comment that Europeans are used to a lack of freedom. I cannot comment on that, but the Swiss are NOT a part of the EU, and so you should not confuse any other EU related stuff you see. They are totally independant. About a lack of freedom: How many schools in Europe have armed police patrolling them?
And for those that doubt it is possible, I can assure you that it is very easy, so break the rules if you dare! The price quote from Sunrise seems reasonable.
I would like to see this kind of comment page under HTTPS so I cannot be monitored for content!! But that is just me.