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Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux?

bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"

21 of 677 comments (clear)

  1. Before you switch... by whizzird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd suggest having the users (or leads or whatever) try the windows version of star office. Make sure they can do what they need to do, before you switch them. Otherwise you'll be forced to switch back, and they'll have a negative view of Linux.
    Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.

    And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears. :)

    1. Re:Before you switch... by Fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Similarily, get people using Mozilla instead of IE. Using the Windows versions of the Linux applications they will be using will make the transition much easier.

      Also check the how well specialized applications under wine. Don't just read the ranking in the codewearvers database: actually use it.

      --
      -no broken link
  2. Cost of retraining? by essdodson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Have your finance people taken into account that the majority of the employees know Microsoft products fairly well and would have to be retrained for such a migration. The problem getting Linux or other OSS into the office isn't cost or a technical issue. Its a people issue, plain and simple people know MS Products, they've been using them for years. A move to a completely different operating system and business suit will leave the employees feeling abandoned and useless and will more than likely hurt productivity.

    Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.

    --
    scott
    1. Re:Cost of retraining? by codeguy007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is just a lot of FUD. Currently Linux Windows Managers are an easy transistion from Windows. In fact most Windows users will catch on quickly. The biggest train issue will be the Office Suite. Luckly most office suites tend to be a lot like MS Office in Menus and Commands to the move won't be as hard as expected. No retrain won't be a big problem. The problem will be the fear of moving from Windows to Linux that some of the Employees will have.

    2. Re:Cost of retraining? by jmarca · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many years ago the company I worked for migrated from word perfect lotus 123 to work/excel. it was a
      painful transition for the average secretary, but the tech staff didn't care much.

      In my opinion, the people who claim to "know" ms office products actually have an arcane set of incantations and bad practices that get the job done. the retraining you speak of should be rephrased as "learning a whole new set of bad heuristics". I haven't really used any ms product since 1997, but when i glace over my shoulder at my wife's work on word, i want to retch at her one-at-a-time modification of paragraph styles, intendation, and so on. And she is considered a small miracle worker amongst her co-workers.

      That aside, my migration path away from windows is to get away from the whole what you see is what you get trap. what you see is all you get. Instead,
      make everybody use LaTeX, cold turkey, and hire a LaTeX hack to devise a set of document formats for your company---reports, memos, letters, etc. That's how I switched. First MikTeX, then Emacs to use MikTeX, then ghostview to see the .ps output, then gnumeric got pretty usable at version 0.4 i think, and voila, i jumped into linux with a completely compatible set of skills.

      I've been installing MikTeX around the office here on various windows boxes, and the latest setup is pretty nice, and there are some excellent setup instructions linked from that page. Although Emacs has a learning curve, AucTeX is pretty great, and with Flyspell running in the background, Word users can even get their spelling checked as they type.

    3. Re:Cost of retraining? by mckayc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Put your average Windows user in front of a Linux box and ask them to do something they can do in Windows like change the background. Watch them panic when they can't do it, or don't know where the C Drive is. It's not because they're stupid, they're just not used to the differences between the two OSes.

      If you ignore the issue of retraining because "Linux Windows Managers are an easy transition" you're quite simply dimwitted.

    4. Re:Cost of retraining? by MrResistor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most Windows users don't know where the C drive is. They store everything they do in My Documents because that's what the save screen defaults to. They may put in some subdirectories, but that's about as advanced as your likely to see on the average user's machine.

      You could tell the average windows user they have to save everything on the D drive and you'd encounter at least as much panic as you would switching them to a different OS.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    5. Re:Cost of retraining? by Roblimo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why can't a smart sysadmin make folders labeled "My Documents" and have them on KDE desktops as icons?

      Why not *set up* simplified file tools like that for users? Put the most used programs into the panel so they can be called up instantly?

      Why not make a corporate or department-wide custom desktop and give your people that instead of a KDE or Gnome default? Why not use some of that Linux GUI flexibility to give your users something *better* for their needs than Windows?

      - Robin

  3. Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. by mrm677 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, specialized apps are often developed by small companies who don't use the newest wizbang API's that trouble Wine. I've got several specialized apps running on Wine that run perfectly. Sure, the file open/save dialogs look like the ones on original Win95 but who cares if the app solves the problem at hand.

  4. Not sure if this works but... by T3kno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I were doing this I would create a "I want that" sort of environment. What I mean is pick a Linux distro that has a lot of eye candy and cool features, ala SuSE or Mandrake, and give it to some of your more advanced users, those willing to experiment a little bit. Let them play around with it, and give them some freedom to customize as much as they want. Once they start to really make the GUI look nice, and playing with some of the stuff that is just not available with out of the box Windows/Office they will start to attract other users. Have them tell the rest of the staff that this is the "future" and they are beta testing for the optimal environment. It wouldn't hurt if you got them new machine, or monitors, give a users some incentive to learn and use Linux.

    With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.

    If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.

    Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.

    --
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  5. Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It does seem like it should be that simple but you neglect the existence of the BSA audit. If you go that route you can expect to hear from the BSA before too long offering an amnesty if you buy the latest versions of the software. If you don't, of course, they'll take you to court and they'll get you for that one or two pieces of software you didn't license. Every company has one or two pieces of software they didn't license. That's all they need to get you for the software costs and legal fees. Fun, non?

    My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:

    1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office

    2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along

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    1. Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) by BurritoWarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      F*** the BSA. If the BSA comes anywhere near you, and you are not some major corporation who would lose as much from the bad publicity as MS would, flip em off. Tell them to come back with a warrant if they want to conduct any type of audit. THen go to every media outlet you know of (the problem solers, etc.) and explain how MS' jackbooted thugs are harrassing you for no reason, how the cost of doing the audit is a heavy financial burden on your company, etc. MS' can not and dos not want to deal with the bad publicity anymore. Period.

      Of course, none of this applies if you have bootleg software all over the place, but if you are legit company who is slightly out of compliance, fight back. And don't forget to call your attorney too.

  6. Re:Good Luck by soloport · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Diferentiate between quick-learners and, uh, reluctant-learners, first. If you can't figure this out intuitively, ask. "Would you like to try something new?"

    Entice even *one* person to try a new, alternative Office suite (start with an MS-Windows install of TOS Office). Ask for their feedback. Observe their learnning experience and learn from it, yourself. Then take it to the next level.

    Teach a half-dozen people -- in your spare time. Grow your "install base". Always return to the original group(s) and make sure they're not feeling abandoned, etc.

    Next, introduce *one* new person to a "pretty" desktop (Grome/KDE). Show them all the ease-of-use options first. Then help them understand the details as they walk through the learning curve. Every newbie will be diferent. But every newbie needs encouragement; A reason to stay the course.

    By all means, show them the same app. they used on MS-Windows (e.g. TOS Office) running on the new desktop! Help them make "familiarity connections".

    Be methodical, plodding, patient and open-minded. You'll succeed far sooner than you ever dreamed! The initial newbies, if you employ them, will help newer newbies. And the love will spread...

    Do I sound like I've done this before? ;-)

  7. Re:New MAC Server by ahknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Star Office? AppleWorks. The MS Office importer actually works on that one AND it's cross-platform.

  8. Re:Do only a partial change... by einer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    erm. When I said:

    "...Linux simply cannot read some of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), you still need to keep some MS products around"

    I really meant:

    "...Linux apps capable of reading all of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), do not exist yet, you still need to keep some MS products around."

  9. Simplify the task bar, menus, desktop by mikosullivan · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Linux can be made a lot friendlier just by configuring the desktop for really easy use.

    This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.

    The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.

    Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.

    By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.

    Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.

    --
    Miko O'Sullivan
  10. No they can't just audit you but... by sterno · · Score: 3, Insightful

    See here's what happens. The BSA says play nice with them and they'll be lenient with you. Nice means either paying for new software or paying for them to audit you and then pay for the license you were supposed to have. Keep in mind, that having a copy of office and a receipt for it is not legally licensed unless you've got the little certificate of authenticity. So if you weren't keep pristine records they'll possibly have you paying twice for your software.

    Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.

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  11. Start using standard file formats by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options.

    A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.

    Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.

    Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.

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  12. Re:Good Luck by rseuhs · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I think the best would be a 3-step strategy:

    • 1) Install StarOffice and Mozilla on all computers and switch to multi-platform standards like rtf, pdf or Staroffices format.
    • 2) Fade out IE, MS Office and all Windows-only apps. This will be the hardest thing to do. Don't buy any upgrades, tell users to use Staroffice when they notice that they can't read the newest .docs with MS Office anymore. If you need some Windows-only apps, you can check if they work reliably in Wine, which is likely with office-apps.
    • 3) Don't switch PCs to Linux, just gradually replace Win PCs with Linux PCs when they are getting old and are renewed.

    Only proceed to the next step when the current one is fully completed.

    P.S.:
    You can also run MS Office with CodeWeaver's CrossOver (also based on Wine), but since you want to cut costs, you probably don't want to run MS Office.

  13. Re:The other way around by gillbates · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I run a mixed shop - Windows at work, Windows and Linux at home. I've ported numerous apps from Linux to Windows, and it's usually not a problem. Of course, I wrote them with an awareness that I would want to port them to Windows, so I didn't use UNIX-only APIs. In fact, I'm using Java right now to develop truly cross-platform apps, and it works surprisingly well.

    Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.

    This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?

    I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.

    The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.

    Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.

    And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)

    When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.

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  14. Re:One way ... by dasmegabyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Great. Way to make things cheaper, ace.

    Support deal: $100 per seat, maybe $10,000 for a site.

    Training: $1000 per user, and it probably won't help if it took them years of hands on to learn Windows. You weren't thinking a $50 CompUSA class, were you?

    VMWare: $100 per seat plus the windows license.

    Plus the work you lose while the enployees away and when they come back and resist the transition.

    Those $200 yearly office upgrades don't look so bad when combined with your $1200 per machine transition costs (plus labor costs and $100 "geeks" working to make Wine work "near perfect").

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