Slashdot Mirror


Ten Technology Disasters

Ant writes "What do a 17th-century Swedish warship, an opulent Chicago theater and a Kansas City hotel "skyway" have in common? All met catastrophic ends and they have important lessons to teach today's innovators."

136 of 327 comments (clear)

  1. They forgot about number 11 by SaxMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... Submitting your page to Slashdot, technology disaster number 11 :)

    --
    "Dancing is the vertical expression of a horizontal desire" --Robert Frost
  2. What about Texas City? by PD · · Score: 2
    1. Re:What about Texas City? by reflexreaction · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Doing a quick google search (technology, disaster history), I found this story with this headline
      Twenty-five years ago, the greatest disaster in airline history killed 538 people, in part because of a "heterodyne" radio glitch that still hasn't been fixed.

      It's a good lengthy article. Worth the read
      --

      We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
    2. Re:What about Texas City? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Uh, the Texas City explosion wasn't really a technology problem. More of an industrial-safety issue. Proper labeling, pre-planned procedures, and all that. A very low-tech incident, to be sure.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:What about Texas City? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A couple of things about the article:

      Firstly, that's not really what "heterodyne" means. Heterodyning is when you mix two signals to produce another at a different frequency. This is how pretty much all radio receivers work (yes, I know there are other ways. Go in a shop and buy a commercial super-regen radio, and I'll change that sentence). It's not a "glitch", it's more a constant physical property.

      Also, the problem was not directly caused by the radio equipment, but by what was said. Yup, it's an unpopular view to take, but it was just plain human error. No blaming the machines here. Why? Well, it goes like this...

      The day of the accident, there was very heavy fog around Tenerife. Visibility was extremely poor, and it was impossible to see the opposite end of the runway. Another factor was that normally, you only fly off from one end of the runway, depending on wind direction. If the surface winds are calm, it's the tower's call as to which runway is in use (denoted by the heading you're facing when taking off, in 10-degree steps, ie. Runway 25/Runway 07). *Both* runways were in use, so aircraft could line up at both holding points, to help reduce queueing.

      Now, the Pan-Am pilot was first out, so lined up at the takeoff point, and began his takeoff run. There was some confusion about whether or not the KLM aircraft was to taxi from the hold to the takeoff point, due to both the controller and the Dutch pilot having english as a second language. This wouldn't have been a problem for the most part, because even if the KLM had been at the takeoff point, the Pan-Am would have cleared it with plenty room, even though it shouldn't have been on the runway.

      The key is in what the Dutch pilot said - "We are now at takeoff". This is indeed a common phrase, generally meaning that the aircraft is sitting at the takeoff point and awaiting clearance. However, in Dutch, the prefix "at-" is equivalent to the English "-ing" suffix - the pilot had just effectively said "I am now taking off". It's an easy mistake to make if you speak more than one language. Even a language you don't often use creeps into things you say in your first language. Just watch it doesn't have consequences this serious!

    4. Re:What about Texas City? by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

      "We are now at takeoff". This is indeed a common phrase, generally meaning that the aircraft is sitting at the takeoff point and awaiting clearance

      Thanks for the description. This story may be behind why I've never once heard "We're at takeoff" at major airports in many years. I've always heard the tower instruction as "taxi into position and hold" with the instruction repeated by the pilot. I guess because of this incident, they like to stay away from the word "takeoff" unless its an instruction to actually head down the runway. Interesting.

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    5. Re:What about Texas City? by Aceticon · · Score: 2

      Ok - i'm just a non-Dutch learning Dutch, but it seems to me that there is no at- prefix in Dutch. There is a ver- prefix which would more or less match your description.

      Just to make sure i looked in the dictionary and there are about 30 words starting with "at", and none of them seems to use it as a prefix.

      Could any expert in Dutch (out of at least 15 million) please clarify?

    6. Re:What about Texas City? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Hm, it was just something that was pointed out to me by a (Dutch-speaking) friend of mine. Perhaps it's a regional idiom? I know there's a lot of ambiguous phrases used in the UK, where English usage collides with older languages.

    7. Re:What about Texas City? by mpe · · Score: 2

      Twenty-five years ago, the greatest disaster in airline history killed 538 people, in part because of a "heterodyne" radio glitch that still hasn't been fixed.

      No, the accident happened because an impatient pilot attempted to take off in thick fog whilst another plane was taxiing along the runway.
      The radio issues in no way excuse Jacob Van Zanten from the utterly stupidity of accelerating a 747 down a fog obscured runway without being absolutly sure that no other aircraft was on that runway.

  3. disasters course by EricBoyd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The engineering undergraduate program at Queens University actually has a disasters course as one of the non-technical electives. Basically, it involves dividing the class up into small teams, each of which then picks an engineering disaster to analyse in great detail. Presentations and written reports are submitted at the end of the semester.

    Supposedly this engenders a greater sense of responsibility into the engineers to be. I think it worked it for me :-)

    Websurfing done Right! StumbleUpon

    --
    augment your senses: http://sensebridge.net/
    1. Re:disasters course by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

      > The engineering undergraduate program at Queens University actually
      > has a disasters course as one of the non-technical electives.
      ...
      > Supposedly this engenders a greater sense of responsibility into the
      > engineers to be.

      Perhaps, then, this should be a required class instead of an elective one. *shrug*

  4. Bhopal? by PD · · Score: 2, Redundant
    1. Re:Bhopal? by Hal_9000@!!!@ · · Score: 2
      From the story:

      "In assembling this list of exemplary technological disasters, we've omitted the most familiar--those whose names have entered into the language, like Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Titanic and Challenger--in favor of some with fresher tales to tell and lessons to impart."

      --
      My email is real.
    2. Re:Bhopal? by jburroug · · Score: 2

      Did you actually read the story? Quoting the second paragraph:

      "In assembling this list of exemplary technological disasters, we've omitted the most familiar--those whose names have entered into the language, like Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Titanic and Challenger--in favor of some with fresher tales to tell and lessons to impart."

      What a shameless and pathetic attempt at karma whoring...

      --
      "Listen: We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" - Kurt Vonnegut
  5. Concorde? by reaper20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It took just one more little mishap to make a disaster: a titanium "wear strip" fell off a Continental DC-10 in the path of an Air France Concorde leaving Paris. When the Concorde's tire hit the strip, a chunk of rubber tore off and smashed into the wing, punching a 600-square-centimeter hole in its skin and causing fuel to leak and ignite.

    Disclaimer: I know nothing about airplane safety or testing, but this one set off my common sense alarm.

    So, the tires on Concordes require to be changed alot - a chunk of titanium breaks of of another plane, and hits a tire on a Concorde, causing the accident - anyone else think that "Well gee, I don't think any kind of tire is designed to withstand titanium chunks slamming into them." Considering the condition of some of the commercial jets I've flown in, I'll take my chances with the Concorde. I'm sure there is more to it than just this, I thought it odd though.

    Though not a "disaster" per se - the Navy's dead Windows NT ship is tops for the funniest in my book.

    1. Re:Concorde? by iabervon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The titanium strip was just sitting on the runway, having fallen off the other plane. Of course, the plane was presumably going pretty fast at the time, but airplane tires should be able to withstand this sort of thing, or at least fail somewhat more gracefully.

      On the other hand, the failure in this case required 2 failures on the Concorde and bad luck with the fire, as well as hitting something that shouldn't have been there. There's a reason it took as long as it did for a Concorde to crash. I'm not sure exactly why this is in the list: in the other cases, the problem was that the makers were over-confident. The Concorde was supposed to be nearly indestructible, and it turned out that it could be destroyed once in a million times. So they fixed both of the things which contributed to that time. It's not the sort of thing you could say was just waiting to happen, or that you could say they should have found in simulation or testing.

    2. Re:Concorde? by mpe · · Score: 2

      However, the problem wasn't with the tyre's as such, but with the fuel tanks. Fuel tanks on the Concorde used to have very little protection meaning that anything hitting the wing at high velocity could rupture them. In fact, it's a wonder a similar accident hadn't happened before.

      Similar accidents had happened before. Not to the same type of aircraft, not from the same cause. But there had been cases of aircraft wing tanks being punctured on take off, long before. A 737 about 15 years before didn't even manage to get into the air.

    3. Re:Concorde? by armb · · Score: 2

      > There's a reason it took as long as it did for a Concorde to crash.

      Partly just that there aren't many of them and they don't fly very often compared to some planes - that one accident was enough to take Concorde's fatalities per air-miles flown from perfect to not very good.

      --
      rant
  6. Breaking a few eggs and all that... by Mulletproof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can't breed out stupidity or rule out nasty ass-bad luck. This artical seems to infer you can do both.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Breaking a few eggs and all that... by Matthaeus · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can't breed out stupidity

      No, but I'm sure we could find a way to make reproduction much less intuitive. If we had the source code, that is.

    2. Re:Breaking a few eggs and all that... by BluBrick · · Score: 2
      You can't breed out stupidity
      Some would agree with you, Others would not.
      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
  7. Carry through is important! by FortranDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live near KC and I remember when the skywalks collapsed. As the story unfolded after the tragedy, it became readily apparent that everyone just assumed everyone else was doing what they thought they should be doing or that their shortcuts were fine with everyone else. :-( Communication and checking up on how things are actually progressing versus the plans can be a real matter of life or death.

    Next time as a programmer you bitch about checking up on QA (assuming you are lucky to have a QA department) or on the users, just remember that your mistakes very rarely kill people. You've got it _easy_.

    Also, on a side note, the local KC TV news organizations try hard to prevent people from getting to their archives of what happened. They don't want to present Kansas City in a "bad light". This is also very stupid. If we can't easily learn from our mistakes we are going to make more of them. 'Protecting' KC's reputation just makes Kansas Citians look more retarded than the screwup that was Hyatt Regency Skywalks. :sigh: Yeah, mistakes were made, so let's own up to them and learn something so we don't do it again.

    --
    "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
    1. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 4, Informative
      I live near KC and I remember when the skywalks collapsed. As the story unfolded after the tragedy, it became readily apparent that everyone just assumed everyone else was doing what they thought they should be doing or that their shortcuts were fine with everyone else. :-( Communication and checking up on how things are actually progressing versus the plans can be a real matter of life or death.

      I lived in KC at the time, and I recall that there were more screw-ups than this short summery mentioned. The metal fabricator also changed the design of the beams. As designed, they were to be made of two "U" shaped channels welded together with a seam on the left and right sides of the beam. They didn't have those bits in stock, so they used two shallower "U" shaped pieces and welded them together at the top and bottom of the beam...and then drilled the holes for the threaded rod right through the welds!

      Everyone involved was criminally culpable...and (to my knowledge) went to prison.

      Also, on a side note, the local KC TV news organizations try hard to prevent people from getting to their archives of what happened.

      A good friend of mine was the first emergency physician on the scene at the Hyatt and performed the triage. He was recently interviewed by the BBC for a documentary about the Hyatt. They supplied footage to the BBC, but no...they don't have any reason to supply footage to random people.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    2. Re:Carry through is important! by stubear · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "Yeah, mistakes were made, so let's own up to them and learn something so we don't do it again."


      By admitting any wrong doing people can open themselves up to enormous lawsuits, that's whay many times teh injured parties or those seeking redress often have to seek the truth on their own with little to no assistance on the accused. Look at Enron and Andersen for a godo example of this.

      The Enron and Andersen officials aren't being unhelpful because they want to be a pain in the ass, they are being inhelpful because they risk jailtime and possibly enormous fines. By not admitting to anything the jobis that much tougher to bring civil and/or criminal charges against them.

      Like it or not, it's unconstitutional to force people to incriminate themselves.
    3. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Teach me to actually re-read the thing when I preview it. What I meant to say was:

      Everyone involved was criminally culpable...and (to my knowledge) *NOBODY* went to prison.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    4. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 2
      I'm not surprised they cooperated with the BBC because the BBC's reputation is very, very high and they aren't likely to show it widely in the US.

      I think the concern is this footage, could wind up on "Faces of Death" type compilations. The BBC also has a reputation for holding onto footage of any sort fairly tenatiously - you can't get a copy of a morning chat show out of them. My friend cooporated with this one, but has not generally wanted to talk about it - we've never discussed it. His involvment may have had something to do with the BBC's success, I'm not sure.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    5. Re:Carry through is important! by dattaway · · Score: 2

      During layoffs, my dad held a fun job as a dance instructor for Aurther Murray at the time and place. He was fortunate to be 15 feet from the skywalks when they collapsed and described it as very sickening when they fell:

      the water lines for the fire system were also a part of the skywalk: they had enough delivery to flood the floor with a foot of standing water and blood. The smell of the blood was described as intolerable and required frequent trips outside for fresh air.

      Firefighters used anything they could to get people who were still alive and screaming out of the rubble and other bodies that were in the way.

      Needless to say, all high profile engineering projects in Kansas City after the Hyatt disaster had at least the appearance of major overengineering. Just look at Bartle Hall and those ugly looking statues on top of massive looking pylon supports for an example.

    6. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 2

      The construction company that built this tragedy is still in business, and has grown into the biggest one in Kansas City. So much for Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand".

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
  8. Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns... by vkg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously: ten catastrophic goofs, but I don't see anything which really ties them together!

    Am I missing something?

    Yeah, sure "Don't cut corners" and "Don't trust management who would like to cut corners", but that's pretty obvious and we all still do it, right?

    There's also some stuff like "Watch when retrofitting parts of an old system with new technology" and "pay attention to boundry conditions", but really I think this is just a laundry list.

    So does anybody know of a good reference work out there which actually has some worthwhile analysis on stuff like this? Didn't Feynmann write something up after Challenger?

  9. What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by btempleton · · Score: 5, Informative

    A story that claims to be reporting on the greatest tech disasters, in particular the lesser known ones, and it fails to mention Banqiao and Shimantan in 1975?

    I mean, not only was this the greatest technological disaster in human history with 80,000 to 230,000 dead depending on whose numbers you believe, but it also is sufficiently unknown that the author of an article on disasters doesn't appear to know of it!

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
    1. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 5, Informative
      A story that claims to be reporting on the greatest tech disasters, in particular the lesser known ones, and it fails to mention Banqiao and Shimantan in 1975?

      Since the original post mentioned this as if we should be familiar with it, here're the details: A big dam in China failed, in large part because the Communist ideologues over-ruled the hydrologists. Many thousands died, but of course that's all right because the houses of the Party cadre were built on high ground. Click on that link for the fine print.

    2. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by Have+Blue · · Score: 2

      The point of this article was, all those disasters were due to people being careless|cheap|stupid|etc and could have been easily prevented (which is not always true). Does that apply to the disaster you mention?

      For that matter, do you have any more information on it? I've never heard of this one either.

    3. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by Reziac · · Score: 2

      Interesting article -- and I note the author is a professor of economics with a specialty in cost-benefit analysis. Would seem this disaster is being pointed out as a prime example of the long-term dangers of short-term (or short-sighted) cost-cutting.

      Could apply just as readily to coding, eh?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    4. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by mpe · · Score: 2

      Since the original post mentioned this as if we should be familiar with it, here're [sjsu.edu] the details: A big dam in China failed, in large part because the Communist ideologues over-ruled the hydrologists.

      Maybe it wasn't mentioned because the cause is similar to the Swedish warship. People who knew what they were doing being overruled by government.

  10. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someone's been reading the Age of Empires technology progression chart again...

    graspee

  11. RISKS - assesment community by DaveWood · · Score: 5, Informative

    No discussion of the topic could be complete without mentioning RISKS. The RISKS Digest has been discussing risk factors associated with technology and engineering (and to some extent generally) on the internet since 1986.

    Every engineer should spend time reading there. Any _good_ engineer should subscribe.

    -David

    1. Re:RISKS - assesment community by wik · · Score: 2

      Just because IBM sells something doesn't mean it's blessed. Take this RISKS story:

      http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.44.html#subj7

      The RISKS digest has a lot of good material. Like any journal, mailing list, bulletin site, etc... that allows opinon there are going to be things that you might not agree with. I'll admit that that particular article wasn't one of the highlights of the list. The author does have good points, however. OSS is generally NOT put up to the same design methodology or testing standards as the software running on a Boeing 777. There is a big difference from using a Linux workstation to handin a CS assignment (upon which my life does not depend) and having Linux make sure flaps still work. After all, you aren't going to download and install the latest kernel patch for your flaps between takeoff and landing.

      --
      / \
      \ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
      x
      / \
    2. Re:RISKS - assesment community by kzinti · · Score: 2

      it seems like slanted towards computer stuff though.

      That's probably because it's the ACM Forum On Risks To The Public In Computers And Related Systems. That's ACM, as in Association for Computing Machinery. So, yeah, it's a little computer slanted.

      But the mention of RISKS is appropriate in relation to this article, as computers are (well duh) prevalent components of many currently emerging systems, and thus future technology disasters are increasingly likely to be computer-related failures.

      --Jim

    3. Re:RISKS - assesment community by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      OSS is generally NOT put up to the same design methodology or testing standards as the software running on a Boeing 777

      No non-embedded software is, open-source or not. They slam GNU for "pretty much ignoring the
      need for competence and expertise on the part of software developers", but tests on GNU utilities in 1990, 1995 and 2001 showed them to be more reliable than the equivelent utilities that come with Solaris. I won't praise the quality of all free software, but often ego and sufficent time to get it right beats the heck out of money and short deadlines.

    4. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Tony-A · · Score: 2

      There are risks from:
      knowns
      unknowns
      unknown unknowns.

      It's pretty hard to get competence and expertise for the "unk-unk"s.

      Feed a GNU utility something you shouldn't be feeding it and if it barfs the wrong way, fix the utility so it doesn't go ape over small problems.

    5. Re:RISKS - assesment community by DaveWood · · Score: 2

      It's a mailing list. There are plenty of time-wasting posts on it. Like any community, you take the good with the bad. This particular community has been very important over the years. Not sticking with it would be your mistake.

      -David

  12. K-Boat by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If you want to talk about disasterous naval design flaws, then the British K-Boat probably takes the cake. A WWI steam-powered submarine, the K-Boats suffered from numerous flaws in design and engineering and as a consequence fell victim to many dozens of accidents and mis-haps, including the so-called "Battle of May Island" in which a flotilla of K-Boats was decimated by a string of collisions during night-time fleet training maneuvers. The K-Boats killed many hundreds of their crew, without ever inflicting damage on the enemy.


    See http://www.brisray.co.uk/misc/mind.htm (scroll down) for more info.

    1. Re:K-Boat by RayChuang · · Score: 2

      Another naval design that became a disaster waiting to happen was the Quebec class Soviet submarines built in the early 1950's.

      Imagine a closed-cycle internal combustion engine with a big oxygen tank nearby--one oxygen leak and if a fire breaks out the result would be a horrible disaster. In fact, that's exactly what happened in (I believe) 1956 when a large number of submarine crew was killed by fire onboard such a sub, and there would have been much more deaths had not the captain got the sub surfaced and managed to get a number of crewmen off the sub.

      --
      Raymond in Mountain View, CA
  13. When the corporation goes unregulated... by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what happens when you have a system that allows the corporation to run amuck.

    The lowest bidder cannot be trusted to create products that are safe.

    In these cases, it is good to still have some government oversight.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    1. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by mlknowle · · Score: 2

      That is quite a typical knee-jerk response.

      "the lowest bidder cannot be trusted to create products that are safe."

      Crap! If the lowest bid is for an unsafe product, then it isn't a bid for the project... If someone accepts a bid for what is essentially something other than the project for which they requested bids (i.e., an unsafe version of the goal) then they are foolish; corporations running amuck have nothing to do with it.

      It's easy to associate low price = low quality, but that simply is too simple. After all, many of the greatest foulups are when a nonlow bid is chosen for 'political' reasons.

  14. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Informative
    So does anybody know of a good reference work out there which actually has some worthwhile analysis on stuff like this? Didn't Feynmann write something up after Challenger?


    Yes, it appeared as an appendix to the Roger's Report. He also discussed it in his autobigraphy either "Surely your joking..." or "What do you care...", I can't remember which. The appendix is a good read, and can be found here:
    http://www.ralentz.com/old/space/feynman-re port.ht ml
    or any of a number of other googleable links.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  15. Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by ewhac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even if you never get near embedded systems of this type, you can't call yourself a responsible software engineer until you read and learn from An Investigation of the Therac-25 Accidents.

    Executive Summary: Company introduces next-generation radiation therapy machine, replacing hardware-based overdosage safety interlocks with software-based mechanisms. Software fails. People are killed.

    Schwab

    1. Re:Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by 56ker · · Score: 2

      Our computer teacher always said there was lots of "safeguards" imposed when software might kill someone - however like all software though there are always bugs. If every time Windows crashed it killed someone - Microsoft would be out of business now!

    2. Re:Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by msouth · · Score: 2

      Part of what went wrong with the Therac 25 (a big part, I would say), was "the normalization of deviance". When things go wrong often enough you start to consider that the normal condition, and then you have moved from the original safe area with a zone of deviance in which risk is acceptable, to a new "normal", which is actually somewhere away from the original normal, and then the deviations around that become less safe. Lather, rinse, repeat, kill people.

      The "text of speech" link from this page:

      http://web.cuug.ab.ca/~branderr/risk_essay/NDIA/

      is a great exposition on that. He points to Diane Vaughn's concept of "normalization of deviance". Once someone has pointed it out to you it's interesting how often it comes up.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
  16. Re:From a luddite point of view: by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 2
    Hot air balloons, probably not -- the possibility of being becalmed directly over your enraged target would be sort of daunting. They were used for artillery spotting during the US Civil War.

    Zeppelins were certainly used as bombers in WWI.

    --

    This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

  17. Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next? by Phrogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "There's also some stuff like "Watch when retrofitting parts of an old system with new technology"

    Tennessee is just about to do something similar with a
    nuclear power plant. This plant has been mothballed since 1985 but they want to bring it back online. Oh yeah, they also want to overclock it by 30%; it was originally designed for 1000 megawatts production but they are going to crank it up to 1300 megawatts.

    The plant had caught fire in 1975, causing a series of problems leading to the shutdown in 1985. Now they want to extend it's orginal 40 year design for another 20 years. A nuclear-safety engineer for the Union of Concerned Scientists figures that a new plant would be safer and cheaper. From an engineering point of view, "It's like trying to dust off an eight-track tape player rather than buying a DVD system..."

    First Three Mile Island. Then Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next?

  18. Navy's Dead ship by reflexreaction · · Score: 5, Informative
    An article on the NT problem is available here.

    From the article
    The Yorktown lost control of its propulsion system because its computers were unable to divide by the number zero, the memo said. The Yorktown's Standard Monitoring Control System administrator entered zero into the data field for the Remote Data Base Manager program. That caused the database to overflow and crash all LAN consoles and miniature remote terminal units, the memo said.
    And a little bit later in the article
    "If you understand computers, you know that a computer normally is immune to the character of the data it processes," he wrote in the June U.S. Naval Institute's Proceedings Magazine. "Your $2.95 calculator, for example, gives you a zero when you try to divide a number by zero, and does not stop executing the next set of instructions. It seems that the computers on the Yorktown were not designed to tolerate such a simple failure."

    GO ARMY!!!!!!!
    --

    We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
    1. Re:Navy's Dead ship by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the code threw an exception when it divided by zero: That's a _wanted_ thing (because technically dividing by zero is an error state. You don't want to just skip over something like that when it could be guiding a missile or steering the ship). From everything I've heard about that Navy ship, the fault had absolutely zero to do with "Windows NT", and everything to do with a proprietary application that didn't wrap a non-deterministic calculation in a try/except : Hardly extraordinary. Unfortunate, yes. Fodder for anti-MSitism, hardly.

    2. Re:Navy's Dead ship by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Except that there's no way in hell an APPLICATION should be allowed to crash the OS.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:Navy's Dead ship by SteveX · · Score: 2

      I've never seen anyone state that the OS crashed - just that their proprietary application crashed (which would be enough to cripple the ship).

      Or did I miss something?

    4. Re:Navy's Dead ship by sconeu · · Score: 2

      My understanding was that the database crashed, causing a chain reaction on the network. I also seem to recall from the GCN article that there were BSOD's.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    5. Re:Navy's Dead ship by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the original GCN article may have had vague comments on NT's ability to blue screen but these were from different unspecified incidents. In the incident actually described a client app accepted bad input, a server app corrupted it's database, this data was needed by other clients apps that controlled the ship. These later clients were LAN consoles. LAN consoles crashed, not the LAN itself. The client and server apps created the mess, they would have done so regardless of OS. The Chief Engineer on the ship at the time and the developer of the software have both said it was not NT.

      http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.h tml

      Also, the publisher of the original GCN article backed away from the article a little characterizing some of the content as "early speculation" or something like that.

    6. Re:Navy's Dead ship by rabidcow · · Score: 2

      "Your $2.95 calculator, for example, gives you a zero when you try to divide a number by zero, and does not stop executing the next set of instructions. ..."

      What kind of calculator have they been using? All the ones I've seen give you 'E' and refuse to do anything until you clear it.

    7. Re:Navy's Dead ship by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 2
      Also, the publisher of the original GCN article backed away from the article a little characterizing some of the content as "early speculation" or something like that.

      Well, at least that way the ship was paid for ;-)

      --
      Say no to software patents.
    8. Re:Navy's Dead ship by gillbates · · Score: 2
      From everything I've heard about that Navy ship, the fault had absolutely zero to do with "Windows NT", and everything to do with a proprietary application that didn't wrap a non-deterministic calculation in a try/except : Hardly extraordinary. Unfortunate, yes. Fodder for anti-MSitism, hardly.

      Yes, but the operating system (Windows NT) should have caught a divide by zero exception, and terminated/restarted the offending application. The operator should have then been able to restart the application and proceed as normal. This bug should not have brought down the entire system!

      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  19. or Halifax. by s20451 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 1917 collision between two ships in Halifax harbor -- one carrying close to 3000 tons of high explosive -- resulted in an explosion which levelled much of the city and killed 2000 people, in what was one of the largest non-nuclear manmade explosions in history.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    1. Re:or Halifax. by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      Imagine what a fully-laden oil supertanker could do. It says in the article that those things take 5km to stop. If somebody hijacks one and sets it on full speed ahead aiming straight into say San Francisco, how can it be stopped?

      They could put explosives into it to ignite the 180 million gallons of fuel after it crashes. If the Air Force or Navy tries to stop it, all they can do is sink it, and the oil spill would still happen.
      Dude, crude oil doesn't catch fire easily, nor does it spontanesouly explode. Even if binLaden did his worst with a supertanker, it would just sink the tanker and put some fireballs here and there. But that won't do anything to a bridge or anyone in their cars.

      Being stuck in a burning building with exits blocked is a far cry from a couple of fireballs here and there. Just use your legs and walk away from it.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    2. Re:or Halifax. by mpe · · Score: 2

      It should be noted that many newer nuclear powers have yet to detonate a device of that magnitude. Just imagine what a small cargo ship full of heavy water could do...

      Nothing very much at all. Indeed it would be suprising if you don't have duterium in your body right now.

  20. Re:From a luddite point of view: by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    Good thing war and death weren't around until modern man invented aircraft and nuclear weapons.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  21. No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 5, Interesting

    every engineer has their own stories of how they SNAFU-ed. I have mine (one of the reasons why I wuss-ed out and now do theoretical physics instead :)).

    Usually, the problem is :

    (a) Pushing Envelope without prior analysis (Vasa)
    (b) Not exercising Due Diligence in design (Tacoma Narrows)
    (c) Failure of communication between departments (Mars Climate Orbiter : remember the units SNAFU?)
    (d) Insufficent redundancy design (Iroquis Fire)
    (e) Failure to recognize likely failure modes (Concorde, Titanic)

    and others of course.

    I've once fucked up an expensive spacecraft component because of (c). I worked on the mechanical design of the component housing, some electronics guy worked on the electronics detector sitting inside my housing. We have an innovative design whereby some of my mechanical supports were designed to keep some of his electronics ICs in place without the PCB board. The SNAFU : both of us thought the other is suppose to apply anti-vibration gell (layman's term here, we call it RTD...).

    So the part was fab-ed, electronics put in, and the whole thing was sent to a vibration table for testing..

    Result : a loose IC, clanking around the housing for 2 minutes at about 600Hz. The whole thing was toast.

    --
    Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    1. Re:No Common Thread...but... by sconeu · · Score: 2

      And *THAT* is why you do the test. Imagine if the part hadn't been tested. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to replace/repair a satellite part destroyed in a test lab, as compared to doing it in orbit.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:No Common Thread...but... by statusbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those are all good points.

      Another problem I have seen was where TWO different bugs mostly functionally cancelled each other out causing new intermittent problems.

      I made a realization regarding strict-type checking languages versus dynamic typed languages.

      Typically, people who are used to java and c++ complain about languages like python - saying that the compiler should catch static type problems at compile time and that languages that do not do this are inherently unsafe.

      Then I realized that ALL of these people must not be running any real tests on their code! If they were running real tests on all your code (every line must be executed in your tests), then these dynamic typing errors would be easily caught ! those would be the easiest bugs to find.

      Too often I have seen C and C++ coders compile their project.... No errors! Ship it! :-)

      Another issue I have been thinking about is the relationship between code reuse and unexpected behaviours. Code reuse (and object class reuse) is fine as long as all of the functionality and limitations of the object/code are known.

      However for more complex class hierarchies I have seen people say '"I'll just inherit from this class publicly and change the public interface to match what I need for this project." - And then they are surprised when other pre-written code interacts funny with it. I'm not saying object-oriented is bad - I'm saying it is so common for programmers to break the basic concepts of OOP.

      I had one manager who was adamant that for any medium sized project there ought to be NO time spent on making the code re-usable. Every line of code should be directly related to specific aspects of the customer's requirements/specification document. At first I thought he was crazy.

      But after I saw some projects expand into massive class hierarchies just for the sake of the illusion of increasing the reusability of the code in other projects, I am starting to side with him a bit more.

      Extreme Programming has at least some very good points about it. ie: don't add features until you know you need them. Otherwise they probably won't be tested properly and won't be a good match for the new use. You can't predict every environment that the code may be reused in. It is harder to do than it sounds.

      So for high reliability systems I think one should have simple non abstracted code that can be measured, prodded, and always predictable. Then you can fashion your unit tests accordingly.

      --jeff++

      P.S.: scary thought/rant for today: How much C++ code do you see that is striving to be exception safe so that memory full errors will be caught properly? How many C++ coders understand that the default linux kernels and libraries will almost NEVER cause malloc() to return 0 and will almost NEVER cause operator new() to throw? Only virtual memory space is allocated. Real memory pages are only allocated as they are being used. Once all physical and swap pages are used, blammo goes your app (and possibly other apps on your system). In semi-critical systems, this is a real problem that is often overlooked.

      Where is the real problem in this case? Part of the problem is that the c++ environment running on the default linux kernel does not conform to the standard.

      The other part of the problem is that it is little known. If it were commonly known, people would be able to design around it (or change the kernel options). So people rely on what the documentation says, instead of properly testing the software limits.

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    3. Re:No Common Thread...but... by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      And you have to put a damned good effort into your tests. Can anyone say Hubble mirror?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    4. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Cato · · Score: 2

      The Swedish warship, Vasa, also failed due to unrealistic timescales and lack of requirements validation. Many of these technology failures are really process/project management failures, of course.

      I saw the Vasa in its museum the other week in Stockholm - they retrieved the ship from the bottom of the harbour and it is now on display, with very interesting exhibits about how it was built. Worth a visit if you are ever in Stockholm.

    5. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ironpoint · · Score: 2, Interesting



      So some gel is supposed to hold the thing together? I hope it was a vcr or something and not a jumbo jet.

    6. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      True. No compiler errors -> ship is irresponsible whatever language you use.

      There's no substitute for going over all of your code and going "Yup, yup, yup, yup...." Strict typechecking eliminates one type of error, automatic garbage collection eliminates another type of error (double free and mem leaks). But these assume you know what you're doing. If in Java you keep all objects global, persistent and available then you are in effect disabling the garbage collector. That's why it's always best to start with C++ and move to Java, because then you know that these additional limited safety checks are just that and not "divine intervention - computer takes care of it". Jackasses still won't be able to program in Java because "it puts you in a padded room."

      When a good coder codes, he'll think, "Yeah, the line I've just written should give a compile error, let's just check... <compile>... Error. Yup as I expected. Perl taint should throw an exception at this line... Yup."

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    7. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Reziac · · Score: 2

      You say, "P.S.: scary thought/rant for today: How much C++ code do you see that is striving to be exception safe so that memory full errors will be caught properly?"

      I've been messing with WinXP. The first install had some 30 crashes listed in the log in its first 6 hours of operation, but I only saw two that had any effect on the desktop. The rest were masked by default (I gather one can turn off the masking, but that's not my point). It does make me wonder what state memory was left in, tho -- did it get cleaned up after each incident or were there cumulative errors? What if this system were running some critical application?? (Is this why I had a helluva time getting desktop settings to "stick"?? Note: a reinstall following a HD failure doesn't have these problems. Was the first HD causing some of the instability? We'll never know.)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    8. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      Yeah, with Perl you can say "use strict" but that's crap, shame really. With Perl compile-time stuff isn't so important when you're doing CGI 'cos all inputs will normally be automatically checked when your form POSTs its parameters to it.

      As for using Perl at the command-line I try to keep it as compartmentalised as possible, piping into it then piping out as quick as I can. No point hanging around in Perl for too long otherwise the code will look like damn spaghetti. Just use it for high speed text processing.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    9. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      "use strict" It should do strict typechecking as well. Having to declare some variables isn't my idea of strict. Python's better because it's more difficult to make stupid programming errors. When I first saw "use strict" years ago I thought the command implied typechecking... Boy was I wrong, but in a way that gave me an introduction to the fact that a lot of stuff in Perl is not what it appears to be.

      taint is nice though, I like that.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    10. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2

      typechecking might be due in Perl 6. No doubt Imperial will be one of the first places to upgrade. Is CSG finally installing JDK 1.2 as standard on the Win2k boxes?

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    11. Re:No Common Thread...but... by WNight · · Score: 2

      Actually, the gel was probably to be used to seperate them, so that vibrations weren't transfered directly.

    12. Re:No Common Thread...but... by mpe · · Score: 2

      Another issue I have been thinking about is the relationship between code reuse and unexpected behaviours. Code reuse (and object class reuse) is fine as long as all of the functionality and limitations of the object/code are known.

      Or even changing hardware without checking if parts of the software need changing. As ESA found out the hard, and expensive, way...

  22. Tacoma Narrows by sconeu · · Score: 2

    I can't believe they didn't put the Tacoma Narrows Bridge on there!

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Tacoma Narrows by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      The two Quebec City bridge collapses would have been good. Hundreds of workmen were killed.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:Tacoma Narrows by btempleton · · Score: 2

      Tacoma Narrows is exactly the sort of disaster he wasn't putting on the list. Just about everybody has seen the film, and in fact it's mostly well known because of the film.

      But in fact, I don't believe anybody was killed or injured, making it trivial compared to many other bridge collapses and disasters. The bridge was new so it didn't even disrupt life that much. It's an an interesting failure and a cool film, but was not a disaster nor is it unknown.

      Things that are much greater omissions include things in this thread, like Halifax, the Chinese dams, Tenerife etc.

      --
      Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  23. Digiscents by moosesocks · · Score: 2

    Imagine if DigiScents hadn't ran out of money.

    At least the air freshener industry would benefit for the next 20 years as we attempt to de-stink the world

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  24. Re:haven't read it yet by kzinti · · Score: 3

    but does it have that bridge on the list

    You mean the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse? Didn't make the list, though it certainly could have. That's still one of my favorites - I always thought of concrete as an inflexible material until I saw that footage.

    I saw another example one time in the 1980's: an NFL football game where the fans at... I think it was Buffalo... were stamping their feet in unison and the upper deck of the stadium was oscillating up and down with an amplitude of a couple of feet (as compared to the stationary points of reference beneath the deck). It was a bit scary when they showed it on TV - I was afraid I was about to see a stadium collapse on live TV. Fortunately, the only thing that collapsed was the Bills, and the fans soon stopped their rowdy and dangerous behavior.

    --Jim

  25. Also in the dead-tree magazine by suprax · · Score: 2

    In case anyone is interested this story is in the current issue of the dead-tree edition of the magazine. Really interesting stuff!

  26. Challenger? by Quixote · · Score: 2

    OK, maybe the number of deaths wasn't a record, but the Space Shuttle Challanger disaster should rank up there as a technological disaster (anyone remember Feynman's presentation about the O-rings?)

    1. Re:Challenger? by Restil · · Score: 2

      They mentioned Challenger. They reason they didn't explore it in depth is because its a well known event that has been discussed at great length recently. Same with Titanic. The article chose to focus on events that are not as well known as the more popular events. And they succeeded, since other than the AT&T incident, I wasn't aware of any of them.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
  27. Concorde by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was at work, and when I walked by a radio I caught something about Concorde. I yelled to my boss "The Concorde crashed I think!". He said. "No way, it can't crash, it's the Concorde."

    For me, an aerospace buff, that crash was as big as the Challenger.

    I remeber when the transcripts from the Concorde crash were released, it was really chilling, thinking about those pilots, knowing something bad is happening, and trying with all thier might to abort to Le Bourget, and that big Delta is stalling and Christian Marty can only say "Too late".

  28. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by sconeu · · Score: 2

    It was in "What do you care..."

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  29. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by mackman · · Score: 2

    Because "case blah:" statements are basically labels. Sticking a label in your code does not modify the flow of the program -- A label should not generate any code. "switch" and "break" control flow. Changing the meaning of a label inside a switch block to mean "goto the end of the block unless preceeded by 'pass'" would be ludicrous.

  30. Re:haven't read it yet by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

    Yeah, but a disaster should take some lives don't you think?

    There is one bridge on the list

  31. Re:haven't read it yet by scott1853 · · Score: 2

    A dog died when the Tacoma bridge collapsed. It was in the car the was left on the bridge.

  32. Re:Power failures? by RayChuang · · Score: 2

    Another notorious example of power line problems was what happened to Auckland, New Zealand a couple of years ago when during a heat wave they lost all the power transmission lines going into the city.

    --
    Raymond in Mountain View, CA
  33. funny? by passion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    the Navy's dead Windows NT ship is tops for the funniest in my book.

    Many psychologists have suggested that the emotion of humor has evolved as expressing relief from danger.

    I find it truly frightening.

    --
    - passion
  34. Re:Darth Cliffy said so. by mgblst · · Score: 2

    just like Communism would actually work if people weren't ivolved.

    ...or animals!

  35. Re:haven't read it yet by autocracy · · Score: 2

    Oh yeah, that bridge was ever something... I remember back in 7th grade when I was in a parade with band. We have a bridge along the route that spans the two cities, and as we hit the bridge, we just broke step. The reason: That many people all putting weight in the same pattern would have made it really hard to stand...

    --
    SIG: HUP
  36. Re:The Greatest Disaster Ever In History by statusbar · · Score: 2

    I remember that. Is the guy with the glasses still alive now?

    --jeff++

    --
    ipv6 is my vpn
  37. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by dvdeug · · Score: 2

    Because "case blah:" statements are basically labels.

    Why? Only because the creators of C chose it to be. There are many other languages - pretty much every non-C based descendent of Algol - where case labels are clearly control statements and clearly end the block.

  38. They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by The+Monster · · Score: 2

    I live in KC, and remember thinking that the guys who designed the skywalks got a bum rap.
    They were designed for people to walk from one side to the other, perhaps to pause and
    check out the view for a few moments before continuing on their way, but not for a huge
    crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music. I have a great deal of sympathy
    for the people on the lower skywalk and those underneath them both, but the ones on the
    upper skywalk contributed to their own injuries. I never saw any acknowledgment of this
    distinction.

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

    1. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 2
      but not for a huge crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music

      Read the article. It specifically says that dancing induced resonance was ruled out pretty early as an explanation for the disaster:

      speculation first fixed on the patrons who'd been dancing on them: perhaps their high-stepping had set off a harmonic wave that made the sky bridges buckle and crumble.

      The truth proved more prosaic. The hotel's engineers had originally designed two of the three walkways to hang on common, vertical metal rods. But the metal fabricator took a fatal shortcut, substituting shorter rods hanging from one level to the next.

      --
      Say no to software patents.
    2. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by mpe · · Score: 2

      I live in KC, and remember thinking that the guys who designed the skywalks got a bum rap. They were designed for people to walk from one side to the other, perhaps to pause and check out the view for a few moments before continuing on their way, but not for a huge crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music. I have a great deal of sympathy for the people on the lower skywalk and those underneath them both, but the ones on the upper skywalk contributed to their own injuries. I never saw any acknowledgment of this distinction.

      The reason is that what the people were doing was irrelevent. As built the structure couldn't even support it's own weight. More people on it may have made it collapse a bit sooner, but even if no one had ever walked on either walkway it would still have collapsed at some time.

    3. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by mpe · · Score: 2

      It seems to me that if you allow people to walk around on something, you should design it to hold at least the load that would be caused if it was totally full of people.

      The designer may well have done that.
      Problem was that what was built wasn't what had been designed.
      Indeed what was built couldn't even support it's own weight.

  39. or Texas City by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It wasn't just Halifax; ports can be dangerous places. In 1947, there was a huge explosion when a freighter loaded with fertilizer blew up in Texas City, near Galveston. I knew about it because my father's ship left port hours before the explosion. His mother got a letter he posted from there just before the ship left, and she thought he was dead for several months, until she got a letter from the next port of call.

    There are some pictures on this page. It seems that over 600 people died; or at least they recovered that many bodies. There may have been some who simply disappeared. There was a tidal wave which swept 150 feet inland (NOT 150 feet high, but that far away from the beach.). Since the ship was at the dock, it started fires in the town, and at a chemical plant near the docks. It set fire to another ship which was nearby. That ship blew up the next morning with even more force, and did even more damage. There are more pictures here and here, which give some idea of just how big ithe explosions were.

    1. Re:or Texas City by ameoba · · Score: 2

      I have to wonder, what lessons were learned from Texas City? What measures have been taken to ensure a similar disaster doesn't occur again? In light of recent events, I have to wonder if certain unsavory characters wouldn't be interested in a 'recreation' of these events.

      I can see it now... a few men with some guns & a small bomb take a weakly guarded cargo freighter... I mean who could steal enough fertilizer to be worried about, right? The small bomb sets off the fertilizer and, as our friends in Oklahoma City showed us, bad things follow.

      Hrm... Oklahoma City and Texas City were both hit by large fertilizer explosions. Remind me to never move to a city named after a Southern state..

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  40. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by prizog · · Score: 2

    Even better is Roger Boisjoly's lectures on Challenger. He was the engineer who, the night before launch, told management that it was too cold and that the O-Ring would break.
    You can read his lectures online

  41. Eng. on board and Devel. say it was not NT by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.h tml

    "Others insist that NT was not the culprit. According to Lieutenant Commander Roderick Fraser, who was the chief engineer on board the ship at the time of the incident, the fault was with certain applications that were developed by CAE Electronics in Leesburg, Va. As Harvey McKelvey, former director of navy programs for CAE, admits, "If you want to put a stick in anybody's eye, it should be in ours." But McKelvey adds that the crash would not have happened if the navy had been using a production version of the CAE software, which he asserts has safeguards to prevent the type of failure that occurred."

  42. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by ROBOKATZ · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Once again Pascal is the superior language.. there is no fallthrough in the case statement (removing the possibility of intentional ambiguity or the above situation) and you can use set notation in specifying the different cases, to make up for the lack of ability to specify multiple values to correspond to the same statement.

    Example:

    case ch of
    'A': WriteLN('Choice capital A');
    'B'..'Z', 'a'..'z': WriteLN('Another letter');
    else WriteLN('default case');
    end;

  43. Re:Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Phrogger wrote:

    > First Three Mile Island. Then Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next?

    Sorry, Tennessee would have to get in line. One of the most spectacular examples of stupidity causing a nuclear accident was at a plant in Tokai-mura on September 30th 1999, and it is the greatest nuclear plant accident in Japan's history. Basically, they dumped all the safety precautions and mixed themselves up a batch of acidic nuclear soup in a big steel bucket and stirred. Instant hot fission! You can read the World Nuclear Association's writeup here (it has a nifty table of different levels of nuclear catastrophe that is a must read):

    http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf37print.htm

    The interesting thing is, Toho was filming on location at the Tokai plants for a Godzilla attack in the then upcoming "Godzilla 2000 Millenium". They were probably done with filming by the time the accident actually occured. In December 1999, the movie opened, with Godzilla heading over to attack the plants.

    This wasn't the first one of Toho's monster movies to "come true", only one in a long history. Here are two other famous ones:

    "Gojira" 1984: the Russians have a nuclear accident in the movie (in the original Japanese version, US version makes it a deliberate act). In 1986, the Russians had a real accident: Chernobyl.

    "Mosura 3: King Ghidora Raisu" 1998: the King of Terror (King Ghidora) begins his attack on Tokyo by flying through the twin towers of a skyscraper. Office workers flee while talking on cell phones. The US version ... well there was no US version, except the real life one on September 11th, 2001. Tristar, why was "Rebirth of Mothra 3" never released so we could have been warned as Mothra clearly intended?

    Sonora:"New Godzilla reading. He's moving inward toward Tokai."
    Shinoda: "The nuclear plants, I knew it.
    Sonora: "Afraid so."
    Yuki: "Well, that's just lovely. Another Chernobyl."
    "Godzilla 2000" (US version dialog)

  44. Re:Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next by ender81b · · Score: 2

    In an ideal world they would build a new one.. but it would be impossible in todays climate. No new nuclear power plant has been built in the US since the 80's (I believe.. might be a little earlier/later). It causes too much of an uproar - NIMBY. Plus, you get wacky SUV driving soccer moms who complain about how much nuclear plants 'pollute.' Sigh.

  45. I could think of a few more... by Bowie+J.+Poag · · Score: 2



    Saw a rather interesting documentary on the Triangle Shirt Waist Factory fire in New York (I think) near the turn of the century.. Essentially, a sweat shop went up in flames, and the owners had padlocked all the emergency exits. Whoever didnt burn to death plunged to the ground below, diving out of windows.

    A couple people have probably mentioned the Hindenburg. The Hindenburg didnt crash because of sabotage, because of any engineering errors, or even because it was filled with hydrogen. Neither one of those are valid reasons, especially the hydrogen thoery. The hydrogen gas inside the blimp was doped with a substance that smelled like garlic, so the engineers and crew could smell hydrogen leaks if they occured. None were reported. A blimp like the Hindenburg contained pure hydrogen. Pure hydrogen by itself is NOT flammable -- An adequate mix of hydrogen and oxygen inside the ship would have been needed in order for it to ignite, and that mixture wasnt present. Besides, the footage of the accident clearly shows that there was no explosion -- It was only the outer skin that caught fire. The outer skin of the Hindenburg was coated with a combination paint and sealant that was both highly flammable, AND electrically conductive -- The prevailing theory on why the Hindenburg crashed is that the blimp collected so much static electricity during its descent into New Jersey (in a brief window inbetween thunderstorms, even..) that the charge eventually arc'ed, and ignited the outer skin of the craft. The Hindenburg crashed to earth not because of fire, but because of hydrogen loss.....all because of a poorly chosen paintjob, oddly enough..

    Cheers,

    --
    Bowie J. Poag

  46. Re:From a luddite point of view: by MaxVlast · · Score: 2

    Well...when they look aside and coal companies dig under the mountains and cause the disasters. Or the oil companies spray black stuff all over the otters and moose. It sure isn't the Republicans' fault. Just the counterculture lefties. And the naieve students.

    --
    There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
    Max V.
    NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
  47. Re:haven't read it yet by vrt3 · · Score: 2

    In theory, this could happen to any bridge in America. Scary stuff, eh?
    Not really. Engineers have learned from it, and build much more dampening in bridges now. They won't resonate as much anymore.

    --
    This sig under construction. Please check back later.
  48. Well mod me down and call me karmawhore by wheany · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the article:The result was the most lavishly appointed and heavily armed warship of its day, but one too long and too tall for its beam and ballast--a matchless array of features on an unstable platform.

    That's like Windows, right?

    1. Re:Well mod me down and call me karmawhore by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, windows would be a ship of the same size with _one_ cannon that fired non-standard sized balls, sometimes fast enough to do damage, but more often than not, so slow that they would just plop out. It would still be unstable, but they wouldn't even be able to get 3 sailors on board before it started rocking. It would be launched anyway and even though it would sink after 5 minutes, 500 more ships of the same specs. would be built

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  49. MS Outlook by captaineo · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    Speaking of technology disasters- What about Microsoft Outlook, whose many unfixed security flaws have brought about waves of email-borne virii, costing millions of dollars in lost data and productivity?

  50. Vasa by Observer · · Score: 2
    The Vasa - that's the Swedish warship that sank at the start of its maiden voyage - was raised from the seabed in the 1961 and is now on display in a museum in Stockholm. I saw it in the late 1970s when the fragile timber was still being sprayed with a solution of polyethelenglycol to give it enough strength to bear its own weight as it was gradually dried out.

    It's now a massive visitor attraction. However, that's not without its own unfortunate side effects: I heard a report a few week back on the BBC that the wood is now rotting again in places due to the humidy in the air from the visitors' breath, perspiration, damp outer clothes on rainy days, etc.

    More information at the Vasa Museum .

  51. Because... by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    ...there would be no customers!

    1. Re:Because... by 56ker · · Score: 2

      I was thinking more of Microsoft would be out of business because of the lawsuits brought by relatives - but yes word of mouth would spread to the extent that they would have no customers first.

    2. Re:Because... by inburito · · Score: 2

      You misunderstood.
      Considering how often windows crashes, he meant all the customers would be dead.

  52. massive class hierarchies by Tony-A · · Score: 2

    Analogies are dangerous, but consider a tail light assembly. Other than something like a bumber clamp-on type of thingee, you have almost no chance of being able to reuse it from one model of car to another. Your manager is right in no time being spent on making the code reuseable. It is worthwhile making the code a bit more general than necessary, but the crux is in making the code match the edge conditions that exist in the customer's requirements. That makes little subtle distinctions that do NOT transfer well.

    1. Re:massive class hierarchies by SEE · · Score: 2

      Actually, one of the things GM fairly recently did that cut costs quite a bit was setting up both its minivans and commercial vans to use the same tail light assemblies.

  53. The Swedish ship was recovered... by stain+ain · · Score: 2

    and now makes for a good museum in Stockholm, where you can learn the history and see the warship Vasa.

  54. Inspired hundred-ton test by ColGraff · · Score: 2

    I could be wrong, but I seem to recall from my physics paper that this explosion provided the inspiration for the Manhatten Project's Hundred-Ton test (of conventional explosives), designed to help figure out what a multi-kiloton explosion would be like.

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
  55. RISKS is good for facts... by Nindalf · · Score: 2

    You just have to ignore all the opinion that goes along with it and form your own conclusion.

    I mean, did you know about the Solaris problems? I didn't, and I find it interesting. I mean sure, every UNIX deviates a little, and causes some compatibility problems, but I have really been bothered by the attitude displayed in some of the GNU documentation. For example, I remember reading about the gcc extensions, and how you should go ahead and use them because everybody should be using gcc.

    RISKS is a big pile of random technology problems, accompanied by off-the-cuff commentary usually by non-experts (who don't seem to shout "I am not an expert!" as typically as most discussion groups). It makes a great jumping-off point for case studies for the continuous education any good tech needs, but a lousy source of pre-packaged judgements.

    I mean, they let practically anyone post, you expect a zillion monkeys at keyboards to come up with a professional journal of technology risks?

  56. What About /. by Lethyos · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does Slashdot fall into this so-called "technology failures/disasters" category?

    --
    Why bother.
  57. Crazy guys give good advice. by Nindalf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had one manager who was adamant that for any medium sized project there ought to be NO time spent on making the code re-usable. Every line of code should be directly related to specific aspects of the customer's requirements/specification document. At first I thought he was crazy.

    I had a guy who thought dynamic memory allocation should be avoided at all costs, and you should never use a data structure more complex than an array.

    I still think he's crazy, but now I see his point. I mean, he was terrible for global variables and giant functions, but his programs never leaked memory and very rarely wrote to bad pointers. If you don't need dynamic memory allocation, you shouldn't use it, and when you do need it, you should only have one malloc and one free (or equivalent) for every dynamic data structure. Often, you only need one or two, even in a relatively large and featureful program. That way, I can write a good page of error handling code and comments on memory consumption for each dynamic memory access, and it saves me a lot of grief.

    I don't like reusing code, either, unless you can make a good case for it being a part of the underlying system. I like the analogy of an architect stapling someone else's blueprint of a fully-equipped foundry and machine shop to his design because the inhabitants will need a screwdriver. Reuse means bloat, and bloat is bad. Every extra line you add is another place for a bug to hide.

  58. For further reading by Webmoth · · Score: 2

    I'd recommend this book on failure analysis, written in layman's terms using case studies:

    Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail; Matthys Levy, et al.; W.W. Norton ISBN: 039331152X; Reprint edition (1994); $14.95

    There is also a companion book which I have not read (because I just found out about it when searching amazon.com):

    Why Buildings Stand Up: The Strength of Architecture; W.W. Norton ISBN: 0393306763; Reissue edition (February 18, 2002); $14.95 ($10.47 at amazon)

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  59. Tacoma Narrows/Millennium Bridge Disasters by lperdue · · Score: 2, Informative

    In 1940, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed" because insufficient stiffening allowed the wind to create oscillations that destroyed it.

    Fast forward 61 years to London and the Millennium Bridge near-disaster where insufficient stiffening ... well, you get the picture.

    Point is, a list such as this one is valuable ONLY if we remember and learn from it. Those who forget history are doomed ...

  60. Re:haven't read it yet by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

    A dog died when the Tacoma bridge collapsed. It was in the car the was left on the bridge.

    So what?

  61. Re:haven't read it yet by kzinti · · Score: 2

    It absolutely was a technical disaster. The bridge's construction presented too much resistance to predictable winds - instead of being designed to allow the wind to pass through. Consultants who were called in to examine the design of the bridge before construction wanted to make significant changes; one wanted to replace the stiffening trusses with a much lighter structure.

    And its collapse was no freak of nature - it was predictable. Even during construction oscillations were noted and made some people questions the structure's stability. After construction, the bridge would sway noticably even during light winds (5 MPH if I remember correctly) and the locals nicknamed the bridge "Galloping Gertie".

    Do a google search on "Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse" and you'll find all sorts of further information.

    --Jim

  62. Re:more than one .. by mpe · · Score: 2

    not the only swedish 17th century warship to have a catastrophic ending...

    Better well known is the 16th century British warship, Mary Rose. Which sank following a refit.

  63. Interesting how the subtext is left out. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    This article mentions the "great AT&T problem" of 1989. But it doesn't mention the corporate witch-hunt for "hackers" which was known as Operation Sundevil. Everyone at AT&T was so hopped up on their own hubris, they assumed that the telecom problem that shut down exchanges in NYC and elsewhere had to be cause be (malicious) human hands.

    The complete details are set out in Bruce Sterling's book "The Hacker Crackdown." Operation Sundevil also lead to the creation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  64. Should have used else if by MatriXOracle · · Score: 2

    I've never really liked case statements in C or any other language. It doesn't make the code any shorter and introduces bugs like this one.

    So instead of doing

    switch {
    case 1:
    ;
    break;
    case 2:
    ;
    break;
    case 3:
    ;
    break;
    }

    do this:

    if (case 1) {
    ;
    } else if (case 2) {
    ;
    } else if (case 3) {
    ;
    }

    Pretty simple, huh? It even takes up fewer lines!!

  65. World Trade Center by symbolic · · Score: 2


    I saw a documentary recently which suggested that even though the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft, no one gave much thought to what would happen AFTER the impact, and what effect the impact might have on specific components (like the building's core, and the fire-retardant coating on the steel beams that connected the outer walls to the inner core). It has been theorized that had these points of failure been considered, many more people may have survived, and the buildings might still be standing today.

  66. Re:Comments on reuse by statusbar · · Score: 2

    Yes, I agree with your points. I think a key thing is to think about 'class string' as part of a library.... and this library is in itself a project all on its own. It has its own specifications and requirements and tests, and one of the requirements is for it to be reusable.

    So in my opinion, it is totally feasible to split a large project up into smaller sub-projects. Some of which may have 'reuse' as a specification. But there is a fine line between what should be reusable and what should be not reusable... it comes down to a judgement call, and my point is that quite often those judgement calls come down on the side of too much abstraction and the 'illusion' of reusability.

    "Damn, all this code we wrote with reusability in mind just does not fit well with this new application we want to make. Now we have to change the library and all the projects which depend on it!"

    or worse: "Damn, this code we wrote with reusability in mind does not fit well.. let us make a bunch of adaptor classes to adapt them for use with our new project... it won't be as efficient as it could be but we gotta get this shipped and we don't have time to fix the library and all the projects that depend on it"

    I have seen a number of cases where a 'bug fix' in one reusable component caused adverse effects in another project that used it! This is what I meant about the concept of two bugs cancelling each other out. Once a reusable component is changed for any reason - even just a bug fix - you must put all of your dependant projects through extensive testing again! It is not often clear what the ramifications of a bug fix may be!

    One of the side effects of making your code 'reusable' is that you are less likely to hack it together into a mess. But proper design an coding should not depend on the reusability of the code... there should be good code everywhere.

    --jeff++

    P.S. unfortunately, under many c++ libraries you cannot reuse JUST the 'string' class. The string class usually implicitely pulls in all sorts of apparently unrelated things as well which may have their own issues. So for instance you want to 'reuse' the MFC CString class, now you are limited in your potential to port your code to another platform. So reusing code is not always a win as along with that reuse will come the 'reuse' of the original code's restrictions.

    --
    ipv6 is my vpn
  67. Yes!!! by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    That's exactly what I meant! Thanks...

  68. Re:World Trade Center by mpe · · Score: 2

    I saw a documentary recently which suggested that even though the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft

    Which they actually did perfectly well.

    no one gave much thought to what would happen AFTER the impact, and what effect the impact might have on specific components (like the building's core, and the fire-retardant coating on the steel beams that connected the outer walls to the inner core)

    One important point about the WTC design is that both the core and outer wall were structural. Which is most likely why WTC2 collapsed first, an almost horizontal rip in one side of the wall is more damaging than a big hole in the middle.

  69. Re:World Trade Center by symbolic · · Score: 2

    If the WTC2 tower was hit second, and collapsed first, it was suggested that this is because of the location of the impact. The first building was hit near the top, so there was far less weight riding on the demaged structural elements. The second building was hit more toward the middle, so the massive increase in the amount of weight supported by the damaged structure lent itself to a quicker structural failure. Although I'm no expert, I can see why the horizontal rip may have also been a factor.