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China Plans Moonbase
jfruhlinger writes: "According to this BBC news article, the Chinese government plans to put a human on the moon by 2010, with the long-term goal of 'set[ting] up a base on the moon and min[ing] its riches for the benefit of humanity.' The article seems to think that the program is more for the benefit of China's defense and aerospace industry. D'ya think they can pull it off?"
Will the transmissions from the moon have the content from the Washington Post censored out?
Wouldn't it be more economical to capture and mine a mineral rich asteriod?
The Americans sent men to the moon using 1960s technology. The very thought of this makes my blood run cold. However, it worked.
I'd say any sufficiently determined organization with enough money to sink into the project could build a moon base.
Another factor: They'll find it easy to recruit enthusiasts from all over the world. Imagine a brain drain toward China.
There's a good chance. Clearly, technology is more advanced than in the sixties and early seventies, which was the last time "putting a man on the moon and bringing him back alive" was attempted. In which case, the chances of success are much better now.
More importantly, the Chinese government has nothing to prove in world politics. Contrast this to the USA who had to be seen to succeed for the purposes of cold war propoganda. This suggests that if the Chinese do fail, we won't be subjected to second rate science fiction movies demonstrating how marvellous they are.
The other thing that bothers me is the alien problem. As everyone knows, the Appolo missions were mothballed because of the politcal tension between the Illuminati and the Aliens. Have China come to some agreement with the alien presence? We'll just have to wait and see.
Can they get someone to and back from the moon by 2010 - Hell yes. They have at least a million young men who are willing to risk thier lives for a chance at glory and honor.
Will they do it before we do? - A resounding 'Hell yes'. They don't have to go through all the red tape that we've made for ourselves. IF the goverment says we are going to do it they will do it.
Will they establish a STABLE moon base by 2010 - Hell no. There will be too many countries trying to sabatoge those ambitions(present country included) for both political and security reasons.
I learned where the word sabatoge came from by watching Star Trek movies.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
The Chinese couldn't successfully launch a rocket into orbit before their spies stole US technology that gave them a 10+ year boost.
I doubt with their current setup that they could actually succeed, but then all they have to do is steal more tech from the US, and that shouldn't be very hard considering how open and naive the US is.
The price we pay for immortality... is death. Narnia The Great Fall
what minerals they want to mine there ?
AFAIK the moon is of the same material as earth, making it mainly a large rock of silicondioxide and iron.
Interesting stuff like uran/gold/etc. should be too rare to mine it commercially (high expenses for transport !).
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
And the people who die in un-humane (sic) conditions in sweatshops provide goods for which country's multinationals exactly?
--
This sig is inoffensive.
don't the Chinese have the right idea? That is to say, we hear a lot about how the Americans want to send a manned mission to Mars, but its unclear to me that the Americans have sufficient real-world experience in long term manned deep space missions. To first establish a long term base on the moon would go a long way towards gaining that experience. It's only 3 days away, as opposed to several years for Mars. Just a thought. Comments?
NO CARRIER
Exactly. What's up there, that you can't get easier here? Basalt and quartz are plentiful enough here. What could you do with a lot of silicon, vacuum, and free solar energy?
What you might get from the moon:
- Astronomical observations (especially on far side)
- First class secrecy (on far side)
- Solar power?
- Fair vacuum, easily accessed
- Prestige
- High ground, drop rocks on anybody you don't like (Heinlein)
Lets also hope it's governed by similar laws as Antarctica.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
It's funny though, is it just talk like the russians did in the 60's and 70's? or are they serious. The united states doesnt have the balls to try something so ambitious. Hell we dont even have the capability to make a rocket as powerful as the saturn 5 anymore. (capability as in nasa's abilities and our government body having enough leaders not looking at the prostate in their own rears first hand..) Hell we made the stupid decisiot to choose a vaporware shuttle replacement over a working prototype.. and now the new shuttle program is now dead..
sorry but the US as a leader in space research is dead... put a fork in us as we are done.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Once the DoD runs its first military exercise against a power with a moonbase (with military manufacturing on that base) I suspect we're going to get a moonbase zipping up our priority list very quickly. Since the only way to reasonably fund that is through the profits from space manufacturing (satellite launch) this gets NASA along for the ride with the Commerce department in tow.
Alert your congressman!
They should switch to democracy instead!
So that they can go around the world, making wars and killing people, and calling it "war against terrorism", and justifying all that with "we are democracy" phrase?
I like them more as they are now. In their own yard.
I wonder what would happen if China offered the US participation in the program. It probably would not happen but if China is serious about benefiting the whole of mankind (?) they should consider such an offer.
... as if they had modern special effects back in 1969) will be enough to at least send someone up to secure that historical site. :-)
It is good for humanity, regardless.
If China is serious about this, maybe it will be get US Government off of its sorry ass, stop underfunding NASA, and start actually doing something to facilitate long term economic exploitation of space.
If the US doesn't get off its ass, humans will still have finally gotten off their sorry asses and begun colonizing space. Once we have colonies independent of earth, the liklihood of our extinction goes way down. This is a Good Thing(tm), regardless of whether those humans come from the United States, China, or Timbuktu.
If the Chinese manage to start another space race with the United States I will personally take my hat off to them, because apparently we (the United States, and the West in general) don't have the will, or the vision, to do it on our own, without competition from the Russians or someone else.
Maybe the threat of having the Chinese sweep away all physical proof of the lunar moon landings (to promote the absurd myth that the landings were somehow fake
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
The author is Heinlein. The book is The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
In the book, large rocks are encased in iron, and shot out of the moon's shallow gravity well with a rail gun to be caught by Earth's much stronger gravitational field. I am not a physicist, but I don't think it would take a very big rock to equal the destructive power of a nuclear weapon if it was dropped from just inside the Earth's gravity well.
Incidentally, this is going to occur to the Dept. of Defense as well. If China actually makes progress, we (the US) are going to see a lot more money in NASA's budget very soon. I think this kind of thinking is what the original space race was all about.
Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.
Once the DoD runs its first military exercise against a power with a moonbase (with military manufacturing on that base)
My guess is they already did: The time from the launch of an ICBM missile to impact is measured in tens of minutes. Compare this to the reaction time you would get from a moon based nuclear missile. It would be measured in days.
And what about the US huh... Billions go to events like the Grammy Awards while hundreds, thousands die of hunger in this world. I don't think any other part of the world spends so much money on cosmetics, drugs, useless luxury products, and yes, sweat shop products from China.
At least kids working in sweat shops can have _something_ to eat, while if we all follow your philosophy, they get to watch Harry Stinking Potter while they die.
Sounds like the 'good ole days' when the communists and capitalists were competing in space instead of wasting their tax revenues on welfare and corruption.
Is this what it will take for the "West" to quit navel-gazing and start exploring again? Will the democracies now have a reason to shoot for the moon again? Or will the Reds get there first?
-AD
I take the view that governments are legitiment not by how they are chosen, but by what they do. In particular a legitiment action supports the general welfare, often also called the common good, internationally. This sort of argument is where the general welfare references in our own constitution comes from.
A democracy, or representative government, with an electorate of engaged properly educated citizens, is arguably a good approach to ensuring a government that acts for the general welfare. However, it is hard to claim either the precoditions or the results or even the reality of the form for the United States today.
The Chinese on the other hand often suppress freedoms that we think are ultimately essential to a general welfare government, but nevertheless the Chinese do manage to act often in the general welfare. And their lunar colony is an example of that, an argument which can be simply based on our experience with the Apollo program economic multipliers. More generally, by our own historical experience, great science projects of this nature increase the moral and educational level of the population as well as transform the economy.
damn, if only we lived in a democracy, not a REPUBLIC!
mother fFuckers, all of you. you all (anyone who's commented in this thread at all) is sooo wildly hooked on the idea of communism vs. democracy.
a real democracy is this: every day, you wake up fFree of rules and go about your business until called upon to join everyone else in the most recent vote. that vote will be anything fFrom where to lay a road, to what stores are allowed in your town, to how much money will be allocated fFor education and military spending.
a real communism is this: every day, you wake up fFree of having to worry about anything but getting your exact job done. your job was either chosen or given you by a community leader(s). that leader(s) will make all the choices, and collect and distribute all worldly goods as they, in their infinite wisdom, see fFit. you need worry about nothing.
neither we, nor the chinese, live in either of these. we live in republic, where we vote on leaders, and pay taxes to a government who gives out things on a limited basis. they live in a socialism, where they get to vote on a fFew things and have to buy some stuff.
fFor fFuck's sake!! stop your whining and complaining about how communism is so awful and democracy is so great!!! individual policies and practices alone are good or bad, not whole governmental structures!