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MS Cites National Security to Justify Closed Source

guacamolefoo writes: "It was recently reported in eWeek that "A senior Microsoft Corp. executive told a federal court last week that sharing information with competitors could damage national security and even threaten the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan. He later acknowledged that some Microsoft code was so flawed it could not be safely disclosed." (Emphasis added.) The follow up from Microsoft is even better: As a result of the flaws, Microsoft has asked the court to allow a "national security" carve-out from the requirement that any code or API's be made public. Microsoft has therefore taken the position that their code is so bad that it must kept secret to keep people from being killed by it. Windows - the Pinto of the 21st century."

16 of 717 comments (clear)

  1. Not frost piss? by Big_Ass_Spork · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Nope.

  2. Sarcastic physician, heal thyself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Damn you, cruel irony, for giving a /. 404 on a MS taunting post.

    Oh Ziggy, will you ever win?

  3. Their Next Move Will Be... by rootmon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Their next move will be lobbying Fritz Hollings to sponsor OSPA, Open Source Prohibition Act: making it illegal to publish your APIs so the "terrorists" can't exploit them. As if terrorists could code :-)

    --
    "As flies to the wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for sport." - William Shakespeare, King Lear
  4. TEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    this is a test.

    Please click me.

  5. we are at war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    loose lips sink ships

    traitors!

  6. 420 Lewis!! #@ +1 ; Insightful @# by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I am sitting here in my bunker and enjoying some
    U.S. grown marijuana. Pax !

    Courtesy of About 420

    Connotative Use/Meaning

    420 is a phreak's (and not just a hippie's) favorite number for a
    variety of reasons, or maybe for no reason at all, but colloquially
    the number says pot -- let's smoke pot, or someone's smoking
    pot, or gee, i really like pot, or time to smoke pot, either by
    time (4:20 a.m. or p.m.), date (April 20th), or otherwise (e.g. State
    Route 420). April 20th at 4:20 is marked by annual events in
    Mount Tamalpais, CA (an informal gathering); Marin Conty, CA
    (the 420 Hemp Fest); Ann Arbor, MI (the Hash Bash); and
    Washington, D.C. (buildup towards the July 4th Smoke-In).

    Original Source(s)

    Conventional wisdom: The most common tale is that 420 is the
    police radio code or criminal code (and therefore the police call)
    in certain part(s) of California (e.g. in Los Angeles or San
    Francisco) for having spotted someone consuming cannabis
    publicly, i.e. pot smoking in progress; that local cannabis users
    picked up on the code and began celebrating the number temporally
    (esp. 4:20 a.m., 4:20 p.m., and April 20); that the number became
    nationally popularized in the late 1980s and, more ferverently, in
    the early- to mid-1990s; and is colloquially applied to a variety of
    relaxed and/or inspired contexts, including not only pot
    consumption but also a good time more generally (in contrast to
    the drug war surrounding).

    Conventions are legends: 420 is not police radio code for
    anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes (including those of
    the City of San Francisco, the City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles
    County, the State of California, and the federal penal code) suggest
    that the origin is neither Californian nor federal (the two best
    guesses). For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a
    misdemeanor the hindrance of use (obstructing entry) of public
    lands, and California Family Code 420 defines what constitutes a
    wedding ceremony (Marco). One state does come close: The
    Illinois Department of Revenue classifies the Alcoholic Liquor Act
    under Part 420, and the Cannabis and Controlled Substances Tax
    Act are next, under Part 428. (RB 5/19/99)

    True story?: According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times,
    the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971,
    among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
    called themselves the Waldos. The term 420 was shorthand for the
    time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis
    Pasteur, to smoke pot. ``Waldo Steve,'' a member of the group who
    now owns a business in San Francisco, says the Waldos would
    salute each other in the school hallway and say ``420 Louis!'' The
    term was one of many invented by the group, but it was the one
    that caught on. ``It was just a joke, but it came to mean all kinds of
    things, like `Do you have any?' or `Do I look stoned?' '' he said.
    ``Parents and teachers wouldn't know what we were talking about.''
    The term took root, and flourished, and spread beyond San Rafael
    with the assistance of the Grateful Dead and their dedicated cohort
    of pot-smoking fans. The Waldos decided to assert their claim to
    the history of the term after decades of watching it spread, mutate
    and be appropriated by commercial interests. The Waldos contacted
    Hager, and presented him with evidence of 420's history, primarily
    a collection of postmarked letters from the early '70s with lots of
    mention of 420. They also started a Web site, waldo420.com. ``We
    have proof, we were the first,'' Waldo Steve said. ``I mean, it's not
    like we wrote a book or invented anything. We just came up with a
    phrase. But it's kind of an honor that this emanated from San
    Rafael.'' Maria Alicia Gaura for the San Francisco Chronicle,
    4/20/00 p. A19; and thanks to Noah Cole for the submission

    Alternate explanations

    There are a variety of other explanations, all much more interesting
    than police code, and many plausible. Some are more likely uses
    of the 420/hemp connection rather than sources of it, such as the
    score for the football game in Fast Times at Ridgement High,
    42-0.

    Known Myths: It isn't police code (see above). There are 315
    chemicals in marijuana, not 420. And although tea time in
    Amsterdam is rumored to be 4:20, it is actually 5:30 (Gerhard
    den Hollander).
    Sixties Songs: For instance, Bob Dylan's famous Rainy Day
    Women #12 and 35 is a possible reference, or source --
    12x35=420. And Stephen Stills wrote (and Crosby Stills Nash
    although it is possible to hypothesize that these
    deaths, too, had their purpose, since 420 has been, since time
    immemorial, the number associated with fraud, deception and
    trickery. (Comet 2/14/98) Comet's best guess is that this
    refers to something in Indian mythology or numerology, since
    the book is set in India and frequently involves Indian history,
    culture, and religion. Given the high interest in Eastern
    religion among the phish/dead community, this seems a likely
    origin of 420's current significance.
    Temporal Significance: Hands on analog clock at 4:20 look
    like position of doobie dangling from mouth Larry in
    Tuscan and Alex Mack 5/19/99). Disruptive students are out
    of detention and safetly away from school by 4:20, also
    rumored to be the time that you should dose to be peaking
    when the Dead went on stage Hart. The Waldos were a
    group of teens back in the 70's that lived in San Rafael, CA.
    420 was the way they talked about pot in front of teachers,
    non-smoking family members etc. Also it was the time of day
    they could just go relax, and get baked. (PhunkCellar)
    Jamaicans purportedly worked till 4 then walked home then
    lit up. They would talk 420 like our parents talked about after
    5. That's when partying began Larry in Tuscan). Albert (not
    Abbie) Hofmann supposedly first encountered LSD at 4:20
    p.m. on 4/19/1943 (Bart Coleman citing Storming Heaven by
    Jay Stevens, recommended by Mickey Hart in Planet Drum).
    Surrealist painter Miro was born April 20, 1893. And
    www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer
    Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
    (Patrick Woolford)
    Misc: Could be that it comes from hydroponics, the practice
    of cultivating plants in water often used by indoor marijuana
    cultivators, since 4 is used for H on a calculator (420/H20).
    (Nick Lowe 3/30/00) The number 80 (eight) is quatre vingt
    (pronounced cah-truh vahn), meaning four (times} twenty.
    Dan Nijjar 1/27/00 (No connection yet between the number
    80 and pot. A quarter pound is roughly 120 grams, rounding
    quarter-ounces to 7.5.) The titanic was supposed to arrive
    4/20/1912. (Thanks to RB.) Perhaps the heavy use of vt420
    terminals in the Berkeley area is to blame? (BTW, 420 in
    binary code is 110100100.)

    Ubiquitous?

    Now there's a 420 Pale Ale. One of the late-97/early-98 Got
    Milk ads featured a character eating cookies without milk and
    then passing a sign that reads Next Rest Area 420 miles (as Ross
    Bruning). Reportedly, all of the clocks in the movie Pulp Fiction
    are stuck on 4:20. Shirts with the number 420 on the red-and-blue
    interstate highway shield (Interstate 420?) have show up on the
    sitcom Will and Grace (Paul Risenhoover 5/14/99) and in several
    videos. UPS' labelling software has a 420 postal code legend for
    next-day/2-day deliveries (which is how Phish tickets are sent).
    (Jack Lebowitz 10/3/98) MTV's 1997 Viewer's Choice Award (for
    the MTV Video Awards) was decided by calls to
    1-800-420-4MTV. And by May of 1998, the number was
    appearing in so many ads (eg Copenhagen 5/14/98 Rolling Stone
    p54, Corvette p55 5/98 Car -), Homer mentions to
    Flanders that Barney's birthday is April 20th. Also, the jackpot sign
    in one part of the casino says $420,000. There are a couple less
    concrete ones, but these two have to be legit, especially since they
    decided to air THAT particular episode on 4/20/99. (Submitted by
    Matt Meehan 4/21/99) And (as of Fall '99) the 60 free minutes that
    Working Assets Long Distance offers, at the 7 cents per minute
    rate, is $4.20 free. There's even a band named 420, and another
    names . In the first fifteen pages of Karel Capek's novel War with
    the Newts, a man diving under wonder stayed down for four
    minutes and twenty seconds. Grant Garstka 1/6/00 At the
    suggested retail price ($3.96) and Michigan (6%) sales tax, a deck
    of Uno cards costs $4.20. Nic Boris 4:20 marks the first downbeat
    of the drums in Led Zeppelin's epic Stairway to Heaven. (Dan
    Harris) The bill authorizing force after the World Trade Center
    attacks of 9/11/01 passed 420 to 1, and news reports in following
    months noted many times that there are (or were then, anyway) 420
    airports in the U.S. Allan Morris And don't forget that Adolf Hitler
    was born on April 20, macabely celebrated (or at least
    referenced) via the Columbine High School shootings.

    Phish-related Occurances

    Whatever the origin, the number appears frequently... For the
    summer 1997 tour, TicketMaster service charges were $4.20. In
    the Fall 1997 Doniac Schvice Dry Goods section, a limited edition
    Pollack poster printed on 100% hemp is order number 420P. The
    Great Went was 420 miles from Boston (former home of Phish).
    The official logo includes 4 gills and 20 bubbles (Gringo
    11/12/98). As of 6/15/97, including covers and originals, Phish
    had performed a total of 420 songs (thought its 486 by 4/24/98).
    (David Steinberg). Lawnboy is 420megs of memory. Patrick
    Walker Phish's The Vibration of Life underlies a whirling loop
    with Seven Beats per second (which makes 420 beats per minute.)
    Trey has used the altered line woke up at 4:20 in Makisupa
    Policeman, which also often indirectly celebrates 420ing, e.g. by
    mention of goo balls. One of the funniest shirts around takes light
    jabs at both the 4:20 phenomenon and the rumored evolution
    (collapse?) of the Phish.Net (especially rec.music.phish) from
    being Gamehendge to Flamehendge, and beyond. The first day of
    the Great Went started at 4:20 (with Makisupa Policeman. (The
    second day started late, at 4:37.) Noah Cole The first single from
    Slip Stitch and Pass was played on WBCN 10/14/97 at 4:20 pm.
    An uproar at 12/31/96 can be heard on tape during the 2001, in
    response to an enormous digital clock (which was counting down
    to midnight) reaching 11:55:40 and reading -4:20. (Yoda)
    During the 9-12-00 2001, Trey hits the first riff right at 4:20 into
    the intro jam. (Cal 2/25/01) Some mail order tickets for the 1997
    New Year's run were in section 420. The first Mass Pike toll
    leaving Oswego was $4.20. (Camille Heath ) And the standard
    shipping for The Phish Companion through Amazon was
    originally $4.20.

    420 Shows: Phish performed on April 20 in 1989, 1990, 1991,
    1993, and 1994. The first day of the Great Went started at 4:20,
    although that was called a soundcheck by Trey after three songs.
    The Jazzfest Harry Hood 4-26-96 started at about 4:20 reported by
    Trevor. At Big Cypress, David Bowie was playing at 4:20 a.m.
    And the one event during the hiatus (10/8/00 - ?) featuring all
    four members - for Jason Colton's wedding - was 12/1/01, 420
    from: http://www.phish.net/faq/n420.html:

  7. He's Got the Whole World by Haiku+4+U · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    in his hands a federal court in his back pocket.

  8. Am I crazy or what? I love spam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    Why I love spam

    by Barry Dennis info@Netweb.com

    Am I crazy or what? I love spam! My spam is important to me. In this new age of the Internet, I need the information and opportunities that e-mail marketing provides. So what's the big deal about spam? I think a few well-meaning but uninformed politicians and advocacy groups have decided what's good for us.

    In the ancient, pre-Internet days, I used to get all kinds of mail in my U.S. Postal Service mailbox. The mail had stamps on it; later on it had imprinted postmarks of one kind or another. I was in the direct-marketing and mail-order business, so I used my name and address as a quality-control measure, just to see how long the mail would take to actually arrive at my house. As you can imagine, my name found its way to many different lists of one type or another, and I got lots of mail. Depending on the perspective of the recipient, it was called "junk mail" or "file 13 candidates," or "recyclable materials." Individual pieces included catalogs of every type and description, magazine and book club offers, resort vacation packages and credit cards. Can you believe it? Offering me, an entrepreneur, a credit card? Had they lost their minds?

    And I loved it.

    I loved reading the offers; I learned things and I even bought some things. They say the easiest sale is to a salesperson, and maybe that's true. But I was a tough customer. I only bought what I needed, or in some cases what I wanted, because they convinced me with good copy, attractive product art and presentation, and with offers backed by a guarantee. They convinced me I had made a great decision. They were (and still are) reaching out to satisfy my needs as their research indicated. Now, in addition to my mail at home and at the office, I get e-mails. Lots of e-mails. And for the most part, I love them. They tell me about things I'm interested in, such as services and products that might satisfy some of my needs. They provide information referrals, ideas and food for thought. And e-mails are smart. They don't require a postcard or envelope with postage to get more information--you just click "reply." Or in many cases, click on the "hot link" direct to the e-mailer's Web site.

    Look, here's the deal. Spam is the "junk mail" of a few years ago. There is still "junk" mail, although I prefer to think of it as marketing mail--searching for new customers and reinvigorating established clients. My spam is important to me. In this new age of the Internet, I need the information and opportunities that e-mail marketing provides. The Internet is a new marketing channel, an information research assistant, and a replacement for some of those mail-order catalogs I used to request. And man, the response time!

    The courts and the Federal Trade Commission long ago thrashed out the framework for people taking their name off mailing lists by using the Direct Marketing Association-maintained "opt out" list. Mailers run their list through the DMA and matches are culled for each person from that list. People don't get what they don't want. But did you know that many of the people on the DMA file have requested catalogs or information by direct mail within a few months of their "opt out?" Why? Because we have grown used to getting information this way. If we need to, we can do the same thing using the DMA, or the Internet Advertising Bureau, or another industry trade group.

    So, what's the big deal about spam? I think a few well-meaning but uninformed politicians and advocacy groups have decided what's good for us, and in their zeal, they are trying to establish a new and unwarranted benchmark for the marketing channel we call the Internet, and for one of its components: e-mail.
    We really have to fight this intrusion. E-mail is no less commercial speech than other forms of communication; e-mail is a new and--in some cases--a better way of quickly identifying, qualifying and servicing customers. Large catalog marketers are pleased with the growing percentage of Internet-driven business, and they use e-mail to offer specials and other information potentially valuable to their customers, at less expense than mail-only contact programs.

    Not everybody has an e-mail address or access to the Internet: Approximately 70 million U.S. households have computers, out of 120 million total, but not all of the 70 million have access to the internet or e-mail. Most businesses do have Internet and e-mail. There are some e-mails I get that I don't want or appreciate: pornography, two credit card offers every day (give me a break!), and some others. But you know what I do?

    Hit delete. I hit delete, and I'm free. As for the rest of my spam: Keep it coming!

    about the writer
    Barry Dennis is president of Netweb, an Internet and offline marketing and public relations agency.

  9. Am I crazy or what? I love spam! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    Why I love spam

    by Barry Dennis info@Netweb.com

    Am I crazy or what? I love spam! My spam is important to me. In this new age of the Internet, I need the information and opportunities that e-mail marketing provides. So what's the big deal about spam? I think a few well-meaning but uninformed politicians and advocacy groups have decided what's good for us.

    In the ancient, pre-Internet days, I used to get all kinds of mail in my U.S. Postal Service mailbox. The mail had stamps on it; later on it had imprinted postmarks of one kind or another. I was in the direct-marketing and mail-order business, so I used my name and address as a quality-control measure, just to see how long the mail would take to actually arrive at my house. As you can imagine, my name found its way to many different lists of one type or another, and I got lots of mail. Depending on the perspective of the recipient, it was called "junk mail" or "file 13 candidates," or "recyclable materials." Individual pieces included catalogs of every type and description, magazine and book club offers, resort vacation packages and credit cards. Can you believe it? Offering me, an entrepreneur, a credit card? Had they lost their minds?

    And I loved it.

    I loved reading the offers; I learned things and I even bought some things. They say the easiest sale is to a salesperson, and maybe that's true. But I was a tough customer. I only bought what I needed, or in some cases what I wanted, because they convinced me with good copy, attractive product art and presentation, and with offers backed by a guarantee. They convinced me I had made a great decision. They were (and still are) reaching out to satisfy my needs as their research indicated. Now, in addition to my mail at home and at the office, I get e-mails. Lots of e-mails. And for the most part, I love them. They tell me about things I'm interested in, such as services and products that might satisfy some of my needs. They provide information referrals, ideas and food for thought. And e-mails are smart. They don't require a postcard or envelope with postage to get more information--you just click "reply." Or in many cases, click on the "hot link" direct to the e-mailer's Web site.

    Look, here's the deal. Spam is the "junk mail" of a few years ago. There is still "junk" mail, although I prefer to think of it as marketing mail--searching for new customers and reinvigorating established clients. My spam is important to me. In this new age of the Internet, I need the information and opportunities that e-mail marketing provides. The Internet is a new marketing channel, an information research assistant, and a replacement for some of those mail-order catalogs I used to request. And man, the response time!

    The courts and the Federal Trade Commission long ago thrashed out the framework for people taking their name off mailing lists by using the Direct Marketing Association-maintained "opt out" list. Mailers run their list through the DMA and matches are culled for each person from that list. People don't get what they don't want. But did you know that many of the people on the DMA file have requested catalogs or information by direct mail within a few months of their "opt out?" Why? Because we have grown used to getting information this way. If we need to, we can do the same thing using the DMA, or the Internet Advertising Bureau, or another industry trade group.

    So, what's the big deal about spam? I think a few well-meaning but uninformed politicians and advocacy groups have decided what's good for us, and in their zeal, they are trying to establish a new and unwarranted benchmark for the marketing channel we call the Internet, and for one of its components: e-mail.
    We really have to fight this intrusion. E-mail is no less commercial speech than other forms of communication; e-mail is a new and--in some cases--a better way of quickly identifying, qualifying and servicing customers. Large catalog marketers are pleased with the growing percentage of Internet-driven business, and they use e-mail to offer specials and other information potentially valuable to their customers, at less expense than mail-only contact programs.

    Not everybody has an e-mail address or access to the Internet: Approximately 70 million U.S. households have computers, out of 120 million total, but not all of the 70 million have access to the internet or e-mail. Most businesses do have Internet and e-mail. There are some e-mails I get that I don't want or appreciate: pornography, two credit card offers every day (give me a break!), and some others. But you know what I do?

    Hit delete. I hit delete, and I'm free. As for the rest of my spam: Keep it coming!

    about the writer
    Barry Dennis (domain@netweb.com) is president of Netweb, an Internet and offline marketing and public relations agency.

  10. My concern about national security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    One thing that troubles me is that many of our military people abroad spend a lot of time downloading pr0n from the internet. Many of them are teenagers, or in their early twenties, so it's natural to assume they will download a lot of "teen" content. So, the question is: how to make sure they will not download illegal pictures of under age girls. Because, if our soldiers abroad are caught dealing with child pr0n, they may be imprisoned by the local police, which may not be the same thing, but is practically equivalent to turning them into POWs.

    Here's a practical example: take a look at this picture. It's rather obvious that it's a girl about twelve years old, at most. Now, go and take alook at this. Hmmm, we are not so sure anymore, are we? But you can be sure of one thing: if a U.S. soldier is caught by the security forces of a repressive police state, like the U.S.A. for instance, wiht the first picture, he would be thrown in jail for life, minus his balls.

  11. Re:Nice by Bobzibub · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I got in my 2.4.17 Linux box's log. It hasn't crashed 86 days so far, so I guess "The ship sailed on"...
    = )

    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000004
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: printing eip:
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: c01256d8
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: *pde = 00000000
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: Oops: 0002
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: CPU: 0
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: EIP: 0010:[filemap_fdatawait+24/80] Not tainted
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: EIP: 0010:[] Not tainted
    May 5 04:27:51 [myIP] kernel: EFLAGS: 00010206
    .....

  12. Re:True, and... by Genjuro+Kibagami · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Kindly name one--any one--and I'll tell you why I don't find it "inconvenient." Please limit your responses to "facts" that are proven positives, not assumed negatives like "there is no God."

    I have no problem with the concept of god, the force, yahweh, allah, the mother, the godess, or whatever, in general. But since you asked, and since you specified that you're a christian, I couldn't resist the opportunity oblige you.

    To quote the KJV Edition of your Bible, Book of Genesis;

    6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

    The christian god as outlined by modern religion is supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, knows all things, sees all things, knows the past, the future and the present. An inconvenient fact in logic even if you take the bible itself as gospel with no regard whatsoever to the mortal laws of science which he have so far been able to find quite a degree of reliability in, is that in the above passage, god has regrets for his actions.

    Omnipotent, omniscient, all knowing, all seeing creatures need never have regrets and need never make mistakes, this is in the earliest part of the bible, and already there are self-referencing logical inconsitencies

    You may also note that you refer to an assumed negative with disdain in your post, yet in the same fashion your entire religion is based upon a great many assumed positives

    The basic fact of religion is that God has stated many times that He doesn't want to be easily found--hence, no fact should be hard to accept for anyone of a religious mind.

    The divine great invisible azure cow that floats on it's deified beacon of incredible lightness in the lower atmosphere has also stated the same thing.

    But not really.

    Convenient, no?

    I will agree that "scientific creationism" is bad science. It's much more logical to simply look for "How did God create the universe" or "why did God create the universe this way?" Of course, many religious authorities have historically countered "science"'s illogical refutation of religion with equally bad logic.

    Science is an empirical evaluation of the laws of the universe that we are presented with, to the best degree we are able to fathom. Religion is an organised form of spirituallity seeking to answer the most complex questions in existence with fables and bedtime stories.

    Science doesn't know everything, but then a true scientist never assumes to know everything, that is the entire point of science and why it is a Good Idea (tm). Everything that is observed in science is checked and peer reviewed with no small degree of skepticism and each and every theory has it's own empirically verifiable evidence, correlating usually as to how well that theory is accepted in the minds of the scientific.

    Religion proposes all the answers, justifies none of it's position, and asks it's followers for fealty and ignorance. In exchange it promises the unverifiable and when resisted it does the same, except in a far less pleasant fashion.

    Don't misunderstand my meaning though, I did state that science does not have all the answers, there are things that at the moment we just don't know, and perhaps we'll never know them. The point is that it does not pretend to, only religion does.

    I'm all for personalised spirituallity, personally. ;)

  13. Re:Your Jefferson quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    He was also a biped. Your point?

  14. Re:True, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    "Moses sluffed his Algebra and Zoology classes. So what?"

    Gee, Moses skipped his science classes. Imagine that... Let me guess, Noah failed biology, too...

  15. Re:WHAT God?! by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I am an atheist and yet brought up as a Christian. What would history reocrd my beliefs as I wonder? How many habitual church goers have a REAL faith? Strange to think that so many believe EXACTLY the same thing, and KNOW that they are right, and that THEIR God is the true God and yet so many others believe in another God or no God at all. That very conflict invalidates ALL beliefs. Why? I s a human notion and looks for human motivations, it has NO bearing on the rest of the universe as far as we know. That we know very little is undeniable, that only science EVER recognises this fact is regrettable.

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  16. Re:yvaN eht nioJ by WebMasterJoe · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    HEY YOU! Join the NAVY!!!

    --
    I really hate signatures, but go to my website.