Slashdot Mirror


Death of Decent Australian Broadband

iamplasma writes: "As reported by several Australian newspapers, Optus cable internet services will be switching their standard plan to a 3gb "soft-limit" broadband service (once the limit is passed, the service slows to 28kbps). This is effectively the end of decent broadband in Australia, with Optus being the only major provider to offer a service without a highly restrictive usage cap. This is also the ISP who proudly promoted themselves over their main competitor specifically over the issue of the competitor's 3gb limits."

17 of 322 comments (clear)

  1. Unofficial soft limits by AlaskanUnderachiever · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While I know the vast majority of broadband packages I've used either don't have a cap, or simply have a "per gb" fee after a cap is reached, I have the sinking suspicion that my current provider (1.2mb DSL) puts "heavy" users on a cycle that gradually decreases bandwidth with total amount used. In talking to others in my area with a similar file sharing setup, as we approach 2-3gb of data per week, our speeds slow to a trickle (only to mysteriously appear at 12am monday). Could this be the implementation of an unoffical soft limit? Could similar tactics be in place already with many other providers across the US with most users not aware of it? The "gradual" drop in bandwidth is the scary part though. Until I talked to friends and realized the relationship between amount downloaded and speed, I didn't see anything other that occasional "traffic jams" down the line. Now my paranoia has kicked in. . . .

    --
    Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
  2. Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by wackybrit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What are they thinking? 28kbps is slower than what you'll get out of the average DIAL-UP, let alone broadband.

    In fairness though, they have a point. $54.95AUS per month does compare favorably with getting a second phone line and hooking a modem up to it all day.

    And it's also true that regular users don't need anymore than 3Gb per month. Unless you're a techie and downloading a lot of Linux ISOs or watching independant movies, 3Gb per month will get you a long way. It applies to Web hosting, so why not here?

    Perhaps it's time for ISPs to charge per megabyte? There's no such thing as 'unlimited' or 'free'.. you end up paying in the end. So why not charge per megabyte, which will force users to consider what they're actually downloading. US$0.01 per megabyte sounds fair.

    (In the UK, BT is also trying a similar scheme with dial-up. That is, their 'Anytime' service is not actually 'any time' anymore.. you can only use it for a maximum of 12 hours a day!)

    1. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 4, Informative
      Perhaps it's time for ISPs to charge per megabyte? There's no such thing as 'unlimited' or 'free'


      This may apply for ISP's outside the US getting service from major backbone providers of which most if not all are based in the US, and are charged by the amount of data they use.

      However inside the US, ISP's pretty much pay flat fees from backbone providers, and in alot of cases, ISPs have peering agreements with each other, so source and destination traffic stays within the respective source and destination networks.

      However once you have to cross the ocean, your being charge by the amount of data (whether undersea lines or satellite). The problem is, the US providers don't bear any of the costs, whether its someone in the US sending data to an ISP outside the US, or that ISP sending data to the US, that ISP bears ALL the costs

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    2. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by E-prospero · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ...regular users don't need anymore than 3Gb per month. Unless you're a techie and downloading a lot of Linux ISOs or watching independant movies, 3Gb per month will get you a long way

      However, you will notice that the people complaining about the 3GB limit are ususally those who were sucking 10GB of warez a month. The "normal" consumer in Australia hasn't even considered ADSL yet.

      Admittedly, some people do have a legit claim - Telstra sold their service as "unlimited bandwidth", and then imposed a limit. However, now that limits are here, I for one expect them to stay.

      Perhaps it's time for ISPs to charge per megabyte? There's no such thing as 'unlimited' or 'free'.. you end up paying in the end. So why not charge per megabyte, which will force users to consider what they're actually downloading.

      There are already some ISP's in Australia doing just this. TPG for instance charges A$26.95 per month, plus 15c a meg. Note - this is not intended as an advert - I know nothing about their quality of service, or their terms and conditions, just their pricing scheme.

      US$0.01 per megabyte sounds fair.

      Sounds fair to whom? I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, whenever paying for bandwidth gets mentioned, the same figure of $0.15-0.18 per meg gets mentioned (eg, this figure was always mentioned at uni whenever volume billing was suggested to a department).

      That said, I notice that TPG sells high levels of bandwidth at 5c/meg - I have no idea where their figures come from.

      It may be fair for the consumer to pay 1c/meg, but not if the supplier is paying 1+Xc/meg, X>0...

      Russ %-)

      --
      ... and never, ever play leapfrog with a unicorn.
    3. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by spoco2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A per megabyte fee is NOT the way to go, not in the slightest.

      I use cable internet for the freedom of having it on all the time, and being able to just surf around a bit while I'm bored. I don't want to be thinking about every little page I visit and weighing up whether it's worth visiting. Or worse yet, to spend a long time downloading a large movie or game demo, only to find out it's absolute crap... and I've then effectively paid for it. That would annoy me no end.

      No, I think Optus's decision is about the best we could hope for, I'm absolutely against the 'cap at XGig, and then xxcents per Meg after', it's just unworkable, and forces you to be constantly eyeing your usage meter... at least with Optus's plan you know straight away when you've used your allotment, and you aren't charged anything for it, you just cruise along at a slow speed until the next cycle.

      Considering their large losses over the past few years, I would rather they switch to this and remain a competitor to Telstra ($69.99 for 3Gig vs $85 or so), than to close up and give the monopoly back to them.

      I for one will be supporting Optus.

    4. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by qeL3-i · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You see, internet usage in the USA is subsidized by users who aren't in the USA. That's because ISPs in say Europe have to pay for traffic both to and from the USA. If a European user downloads an ISO from the USA, the European ISP has to pay for it. If a US user downloads an ISO from a European site, the European ISP still has to pay for it. It's the same in Australia.

      This fabulous deal is called "peering". If you're a Tier-1 ISP, you don't pay for data. This is by agreement amongst the ISPs. All the Tier-1 ISPs are in the USA, and guess what? They won't let any non-US ISPs join the club.

      Eventually the principals of "free market forces", "globalism", and "user pays" will take over, and people in the USA will face a dramatic increase in internet costs. Then we're going to see a lot of complaining! But it'll actually be a fairer system, except for people in the USA who won't be getting a free ride any more.

      There's no point saying "But the USA INVENTED the Internet!!!1!". Weren't cars invented in the USA? But you don't get free cars. And sooner or later, you won't get "free" internet any more either.

    5. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by newt · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The thing that always chokes me up about these sorts of conversations is that the people who have strong ideas about how much it "should" cost don't actually know what they're talking about.

      Just a hint: Anyone who is even remotely interested in thinking about how much bandwidth in Australia "should" cost really needs to understand that there is no such thing as a T-1 in Australia. Trying to make judgements without that kind of basic knowledge is a bit like making judgements about how much cars "should" cost without knowing that they're made out of steel.

      If the deficiencies in your knowledge are really that basic, you just aren't qualified to comment about how much it "should" cost. A fundamental understanding of the market conditions in Australia is required before you can put yourself into the position of making authorative statements about costs.

      What you are really doing is taking a US-centric view of the Internet, and applying it to other parts of the world -- And anyone who lives outside US territory will be able to tell you that that's just nonsense.

      - mark
      Network Engineer, Internode

      --

      -----
      I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked.

    6. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by newt · · Score: 4, Informative
      In the US, T1's are used by businesses; In Australia, most businesses use ISDN (yes, 128kbits/sec), or if they need a "fast" connection they'll usually pick one of the Telstra "DDS Fastway" offerings (leased-lines provided as a managed end-to-end data service at committed datarates between 64kbps and 2 Mbps). There's an increasing amount of ADSL used for business connections too.

      In the wholesale marketplace, ISPs have tended to use Telstra Megalink for 2 Mbps services (basically E1 on G.703), but that's increasingly being replaced by 100 Mbps Ethernet as next-generation carriers lay more fibre around the place.

      Yes, you'd be right in thinking that all these connectivity options are very Telstra-centric. They're the monopology carrier in our, ahem, "competitive" telecommunications marketplace. It sucks, but it's one of the industry conditions which we just have to cope with, and it's one of the single largest reasons for the high cents/Mbyte figure you see quoted by retail ISPs in Australia. Just to give you some starting points, a Telstra Megalink in the 6km distance band costs $3000 to install and $800 per month to run. 64k on ISDN costs about $400 per month (if you've told Telstra which number you'll be dialling in advance - if you dial any other number, it's about $1800 per month in the local call charging band).

      - mark
      Network Engineer, Internode

      --

      -----
      I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked.

    7. Re:Perhaps broadband should charge 'per megabyte'? by Thornae · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mark is modestly neglecting to mention that the company he works for is at the forefront of the fight to get a better deal from Tel$tra, and is one of the good guys. Internode (the company in question) do provide adsl, but like everyone else, they have to rent their bandwidth from Tel$tra, who charges them stupidly high prices to discourage competition. Yes, this is illegal, and the local Competion watchdog have taken Tel$tra to task for this. Unfortunately, this hasn't really changed things much.

      (Unabashed praise from satisfied user follows...) Unlike a lot of ISPs, Internode has a high percentage of geeks at most levels of their infrastructure, and do their best to provide for all users, not just the average (how many other ISPs do you know that have a FreeBSD section on their support pages?). The management of Internode also are quick to respond to online concerns - f'rinstance, there was a concern raised over their adsl Terms of Use a while back on an Australian tech site. Internode's manager responded personally, and the offending section was revised within hours of the initial news posting.

      When I eventually decide I really do need adsl, I know who I'll be going through...

      --
      |>
      Here be Dragons
  3. I'm going to disagree with some of what you said by suzerain · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In truth, your post is coherent and logical, but let me play devil's advocate:

    And it's also true that regular users don't need anymore than 3Gb per month.

    I've heard I don't know how many times that "xxxx is enough for the average user" in computer-speak, and every time it's short-sighted. It may be enough given usage patterns right now, but as soon as video is distributed on the network, all software is distributed that way, and as soon as The Next Big Thing (tm) comes along, your point becomes moot. Believe me, 3GB a month will seem like a pittance sooner than you think.

    Computers in general aren't even 1 1,000,000th as powerful as they need to be. Look at the latest greatest game, look at how beautiful the 3D is, and then look out your window and realize how truly shitty it looks and you get the idea. We will need more computing horsepower for graphics and AI and everything else, and we will definitely need more bandwidth than 3 lousy GB per month.

    Perhaps it's time for ISPs to charge per megabyte?

    Well, it makes business sense, pure and simple. If I want to download the 500 MB Lineage installer, and that alone takes one sixth of my monthly allotment, then it ought to be my problem, right? Wrong. The problem is, the Internet is as much an entertainment medium as anything else, and it's competing with technologies that are not pay-as-you-go, like television and so forth. I think the public will demand unlimited access, if given a choice. The first time they get a bill for $1000 in a month, they'll be looking elsewhere.

    Of course, the industry coould just collude and force per-download pricing, but it's ridiculous.

    As a consumer, I'm already pissed off that my cable company won't allow me to broadcast. It's their way of keeping distribution in the hands of the few; a way to maintain the status quo. Yes, I understand the reasons why they don't want to host my pr0n and wArEz, but I'm being selfish here; this is about what I want.

    I for one will always seek out unlimited pricing if possible.

    --
    gameDB
  4. Prices by Ambush · · Score: 4, Informative
    Here's the new pricing plans;

    1. 550Mb/Month $AU64.95

    2. 3Gb/Month $AU79.95

    3. 5Gb/Month $AU164.95

    4. 10Gb/Month $AU305.95

    The average user, according to Optus, uses around 65Mb per day (or almost 2Gb/Month). The 3Gb plan could therefore be construed as offering 50% more than the current average usage.

    For comparison, the plan I am currently on is $AU74.95/Month (incl GST) for up to ten times the average monthly usage, or 19.5Gb.

    So, time to start hunting for alternatives. Oh, and ways to monitor my usage.

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people; those who know ternary, those who don't, and those now hunting for a dictionary.
  5. Live With it or Build Your Own Network by Taliesan999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having started and run an ISP in the mid nineties, there is a simple equation. In Australia, bandwith costs money and is considerably more expensive than in the US (because of the poor deal Australia gets on bandwith to/from the US).

    Asking Australian service providers, no matter how large to foot the bill for file sharing networks, movie downloads etc. is a non starter as an idea. Would you like Optus to go the way of One.Tel? No bandwith is considerably worse than limited bandwith.

    As far as file sharing goes, why not start building networks using wireless links etc. in urban areas (I realise this is a non starter in rural areas), or perhaps start an ISP who's emphasis is on file sharing (connections provided via wireless or ADSL (I have a feeling such an ISP would quickly attract the attention of the Australian equivalent of the RIAA)).

    As far as distributing Linux ISOs via CD/DVD is a far more efficient method while bandwith is still limited. Perhaps talk to Optus about putting certain large files like this online for download at reduced bandwith cost (i.e. the bandwith used is say 10% when downloaded from their "mirror"). This could be a different way for Optus to distinguish their service from Telstra's (perhaps some sort of voting system could be implemented to request files)

  6. Re:Dammit! by iamplasma · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, though people on the netstats system will lose out too. When the usage becomes capped like this, you can obviously expect the average usage to fall dramatically, affecting the netstats figures quite a bit too.

  7. Re:I'm going to disagree with some of what you sai by Combuchan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've heard I don't know how many times that "xxxx is enough for the average user" in computer-speak, and every time it's short-sighted.

    It is short-sighted, but complain when the Next Big Thing actually arrives. We have 2.4 GHz Pentium IV's, and I'm 'chugging' along on my 500 MHz Celeron, and the most processor intensive operation I do (aside from dnetc, but that doesn't count) is run mplayer, which eats 25% CPU. This is why the tech industry's in a slump, we don't have a Big Thing and haven't had a latest Big Thing for a while now.

    Look at the latest greatest game, look at how beautiful the 3D is, and then look out your window and realize how truly shitty it looks and you get the idea. We will need more computing horsepower for graphics and AI and everything else, and we will definitely need more bandwidth than 3 lousy GB per month.

    And in twenty years when we're at that point, we'll have a far better Internet infrastructure than what we have now. You presume that the 3GB a month limit will still be the same in the year 2022, and it won't. Sorry.

    The problem is, the Internet is as much an entertainment medium as anything else, and it's competing with technologies that are not pay-as-you-go, like television and so forth.

    While the Internet is an entertainment medium, it differs from traditional devices by the method of transport: Waves vs. bytes. You can put a 100,000 watt FM tower and cover millions of people with your radio station. With radio and television, you don't pay for each user like you do with the internet distribution.

    Calculate the bandwith costs to cover four million people listening to 128 kbps Internet radio instead. To serve this, you'd have to be thinking 4,000,000 * 16 * 1024 bytes per second. Each OC unit (Optical Carrier, as in OC-3) transmits data at 51.84 Mbps, or 6,794,792 bytes per second. Divide out and you're going to need an OC-9645.

    Even if this were a regular day, ie, not four million people listening, and you had a fraction of the total listeners, you'd still have to serve massive bandwith out; the costs of which would be far more than any large-market FM radio station could cover.

    I'd rather put up my 100,000 watt FM antenna.

    I hate to rain on your parade, but the Internet is not the best method of distribution for, uh, packaged entertainment, like pay per view and radio and television shows. Maybe in 2022 when we have your true-to-life 3D, things will change, but it is unfortunate that in 2002 we have advanced so far but still have a long way ahead of us.

    If you disagree, reply.

    --
    "[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
  8. Greed vs. Greed. by zardie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's just a case of greed. Corporate greed and user greed. The OptusNet cable division has turned a profit for the first time, but they need more money to pay for the other bits of optus, so to speak, that run at a loss.

    The users want more. Fair enough, people like me have become accustomed to the soft download limits we have previously had. We don't use the phonebook. I don't watch TV or listen to the radio. The Internet is everywhere, accessible anywhere in the house from the nearest PC or laptop with wireless card.

    Compared to Telstra users, who are used to their 3GB/month cap, this is a major blow to our habits. This also affects the broadband acceptance in Australia - we've had all sorts of politicians and companies (even Bill Gates himself) tell us that our broadband is too expensive and inaccessible.

  9. End of Australian broadband? Pfft. by lpontiac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are plenty of decent deals out there. You just have to be reasonable. Leechers should get their head around the fact that they are *not* profitable customers, and will be treated accordingly.

    In Perth, Western Australia, Arachnet offers ADSL at pretty much the same price points, which the bonus that traffic to and from WAIX, a local peering point, is free. (Subject to fair use; don't run a heavy-traffic VPN across to your other office in Sydney over it). PlanetMirror is on a network peered to WAIX, so that's all your ISOs taken care of.

    The wholesale situation with exchanges and the local loop has finally reached the point where companies other than Telstra and Optus can offer decent pricing. They just need people to start buying the services they offer.

    There are others here in WA too; Westnet, iiNet and probably more. I personally don't have any of these products at home (can't justify a long-term contract) - I'm a satisfied Arachnet dialup customer. At work, we have iiNet's offering and it's very, very nice.

  10. Does anybody know... by ocbwilg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Does anybody know the difference between GB and Gb? Here's a hint...one is bit and the other is byte. If the article is posted correctly then it would seem that they have capped their users at a total of 384 megabytes of downstream per month, not even enough to download a single Linux ISO. Why is it that I get the impression that they're actually talking about gigabytes instead of gigabits, even though the original poster and the Slashdot editor can't tell the difference?

    Maybe they could get a job at NASA converting meters to yards.