FBI Carnivore Screwup Destroys E-Mail Evidence

An Anonymous Coward writes: "The FBI apparently used Carivore in an attempt to collect information on Osama bin Laden't network. Unfortunately they screwed up and collected information on "non-covered targets" (*ahem*, isn't this the sort of thing we weren't supposed to worry about...). Then the FBI tech was "so upset" that he destroyed ALL of the collected email, not only the information that was not covered by the warrant. Here is the SF Gate Story and EPIC's press release."

Comments

Fbi Document

[alphaseven]

Here's the original FBI memo: http://www.epic.org/privacy/carnivore/fisa.html

Damn them!

[reynolds_john]

What is a geek to do when he can't rely on his own government to keep secret, accurate, and complete backups of his email!?

check THIS out

[drDugan]

www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html

you've got to read it to believe it.

FBI's "outdated" computer systems?

[visualight]

Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were expected to outline high-profile changes Wednesday at the FBI's headquarters, including closer ties to the CIA and an overhaul of the FBI's outdated computer systems.

Does anyone believe for a second that the FBI's computer systems are outdated? Sounds like a spin job to me....

Later watch the FBI try to attribute their missed tip-offs prior to 9/11 to slow computers. They'll have all kinds of "contributing" factors that'll spread the blame out thin enough so no one loses their job.

Re:FBI's "outdated" computer systems?

[delong]

Who modded this up as interesting?

This is the sort of ignorance that should have been completely destroyed by 9/11. Why do you not believe that the FBI has severely outdated machines? Because the typical Slashdotter has an extremely distorted perception of the scope and extent of governmental power and efficacy. When the CIA starts up a venture capital firm to fund technology ideas to jump start itself in playing catch-up with the private sector, that says something. When the NSA goes on 60 Minutes and says "we're friggin way behind," that speaks volumes. The government USED to have the biggest and the best. Today, the private sector, as far as information technology goes, is WAY ahead of the agencies.

Remember, when Clinton entered office in 93, there WERE NO COMPUTERS in the White House! They still USED TELETYPES. In 93!

Derek

Not Destroyed?

[Myriad]

A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tuesday night that the e-mails were not destroyed.

FBI Agent 1: We have a problem... Carnivore was doing its thing, but we got caught grabbing stuff we shouldn't!

FBI Agent 2: Hmmm. I know! We claim that some lowly tech in a spat of moral outrage deletes ALL the material as he is so offended that it captured the, uhh, "non-target" mail, but we actually keep all the files and use them as we see fit.

FBI Agent 1: Perfect!

FBI Agent 2: (Takes long drag off cigarette)

Re:Not Destroyed?

[discogravy]

is that post-coital cigarette? from screwing everyone all the time?

What's all the fuss about?

[iritant]

The guy goofed. What's nice to read is that he was upset about collecting information on innocent Americans, and that he deleted it. I would have been more upset if he did something with the information. Could you imagine the slashdot headline for *that*?

Re:What's all the fuss about?

[Radical Rad]

It is nice to think that there is an FBI agent who believes in upholding the fourth amendment. It is too bad he is at the bottom of the totem pole instead of the top.

Maybe they should rename it

[Virtex]

So Carnivore ate its own data? Maybe they should give it a new name. I think Cannibal would work pretty well.

Destroyed?

[mrbuckles]

The article actually says that the collected information was not destroyed -- citing an unnamed source. One would wonder with the backups a system like that would (should) have that destroying the evidence would be a lengthy job and may not have been done completely.

The article also notes people who have had their e-mail unintentionally collected are entitled to be informed. Can't wait to see if that happens...

Re:Destroyed?

[cebe]

I think what that anonymous source meant was that the tech *thought* he destroyed them.

"The FBI technical person was apparently so upset that he destroyed all the e-mail take, including the take on" the suspect, the memo said.
A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tuesday night that the e-mails were not destroyed.

Ya'll would be surprised what forensics software can do. I've worked with it at the government level. I think what the anon source was getting at is that they have recovered the "destroyed" data.
It is almost impossible to destroy data. You pretty much have to run over your hdd with your car. Anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. The forensics software that governments are using is unbelievable. Deleted, Formatted 8 times and written over 20 times? no problem. You're damn right that destroying the data would be a lengthy job. You have to light the fire that will burn the hdd after all. :)

Re:Yeah...

[Ieshan]

Unfortunately, he must of have forgot the Laden:

rm -rf /bin/laden

We all know he just typed:

rm -rf /bin.

Re:No backups?

[ParticleGirl]

They just aren't advertising backups. The memo said that the agent was so upset that she deleted the email. An agent contributed my favorite quote in the article:

A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tuesday night that the e-mails were not destroyed. The official did not elaborate or try to reconcile the statement with the memo.

Yeah, I'm sure there are backups. I'm sure the FBI is avoiding confirming that there are records somewhere of emails captured from "non-target" subjects, while trying to cover its ass in re: losing evidence.

hmmm

[drDugan]

I'll bet I know how they figured out there was a problem:

[modal window]
Drive C:/ is Full.
[/modal window]

followed quickly with a blue screen of death.

Re:hmmm

[karlm]

Do you think you'd feel silly if you found out it actually runs on Linux?

At least as of last year, Carnivore/DCS-1000 ran on NT 4.0 (not sure which service pack). Yeah, the poster prbably would be a little embarassed if s/he discovered Carnivore was deployed on Linux, but the poster need not worry. Most people arround here know that Carnivore runson NT 4. That's part of a lot of people's concerns. I'd feel much better if my government used more robust means to collect evidence. If someone cracks a Carnivore box, it comes with nice GUI tools to facilitate blackmail and information theft.

The FBI comes in with the box and hooks it up to the same LAN as the mail server to be monitored. I think it sniffs traffic instead of passing all of the traffic in one NIC and out another.

The author of "Carnivore"...

[newerbob]

... Patrick Naughton is a complete IDIOT. (Another reference to his work is here

I was forced to work for this pervert for a few months . Everyone knew he was bad news, even before he entered a guilty plea for possession of child pornography including photos of infants.

Why are we letting pedophiles write software to catch criminals?

This guy is NO GENIUS! After all, he thought there really were young girls in an IRC chat room called "Dads & Daughters Sex" and he got caught!

Patrick was supposed to be an Internet Expert, yet he didn't even PGP his kiddie porn!

The Walt Disney Company lost $1Billion dollars investing in Patrick Naughton's company (his college roommate and best friend still works for Disney!). Now the FBI lost hard-earned evidence investing in Naughton's technology.

-Disney paid the price for Naughton's stupidity.

The FBI paid the price for Naughton's stupidity.

And THE AMERICAN PUBLIC did, too! By standing still while "pretty boy" Patrick was able to plea bargain by writing crappy software for the FBI, he got out of jail sooner and he's free to endanger more young girls, maybe even your son or daughter!

Re:The author of "Carnivore"...

[newerbob]

Here are some more links to Naughton's plea-bargain with the FBI (writing software in exchange for freedom): here

here it says he's "helping law enforcement track down pedophiles

and here it says that the FBI's deal to have him write snoop software saved him from jail.

Upset Agent

[Roarkk]

The best part of this article is the fact that an FBI agent was upset at collecting email that wasn't supposed to be collected.

Whether they have backups, whether they collected the information or not, it points out the fact that individuals in the FBI are concerned about privacy issues as much as many of us are.

Re:Perhaps...

[Tazzy531]

That's good and all when you can trust the people that are doing this. But we have seen through history and in recent weeks (FBI agents indicted on Insider Trading) What's next? What if the FBI sold your information to a competitor company (like the CIA telling Boeing about a secret deal that Airbus, Boeing's competitor, was discussing with Saudi Arabia, allowing Boeing to beat their offer)

But if you let them read your emails, you must surely be willing to allow them to listen to your phone calls. If that's the case, you must surely support the government putting camera's everwhere. Since, I mean, you have nothing to hide.

See the problem is not that you don't have anything to hide, but the American system is based on freedom for all individuals. In that, everyone should be treated innocent until proven guilty. That's the basis of this entire system.

A violation of federal wiretap law?

[Radical Rad]

The surveillance system captured not only the electronic communications of the court-authorized target, "but also picked up E-Mails on non-covered" individuals, a violation of federal wiretap law.

Amendment IV of the U.S. Constitution: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Notice that the Constitution does not say that illegal searches may be performed as long as any resulting evidence is not used against the persons being illegally searched. It says that it shall not happen. This interception of mail was not just a violation of federal wiretap law, it was a violation of the Bill of Rights. We are supposedly fighting a "war on terrorism" to protect our way of life, but that way of life is rooted in our Constitution. The only way to win the hearts and minds of the rest of the world is to stick to our principles and abide by the highest law of the land which is the U.S. Constitution.

Anyone have Colleen Rowley's Email Address?

[goingware]

If anyone knows how to email Colleen Rowley (the FBI agent who wrote the letter whose URL appears above), please send her the following URL:

Make a Bonfire of Your Reputations
http://www.goingware.com/reputation/

What the heck, I'll just post the speech here, it's not that long:

When I was asked to make this address I wondered what I had to say to you boys who are graduating. And I think I have one thing to say. If you wish to be useful, never take a course that will silence you. Refuse to learn anything that implies collusion, whether it be a clerkship or a curacy, a legal fee or a post in a university. Retain the power of speech no matter what other power you may lose. If you can take this course, and in so far as you take it, you will bless this country. In so far as you depart from this course, you become dampers, mutes, and hooded executioners.

As a practical matter, a mere failure to speak out upon occassions where no statement is asked or expect from you, and when the utterance of an uncalled for suspicion is odious, will often hold you to a concurrence in palpable iniquity. Try to raise a voice that will be heard from here to Albany and watch what comes forward to shut off the sound. It is not a German sergeant, nor a Russian officer of the precinct. It is a note from a friend of your father's, offering you a place at his office. This is your warning from the secret police. Why, if you any of young gentleman have a mind to make himself heard a mile off, you must make a bonfire of your reputations, and a close enemy of most men who would wish you well.

I have seen ten years of young men who rush out into the world with their messages, and when they find how deaf the world is, they think they must save their strength and wait. They believe that after a while they will be able to get up on some little eminence from which they can make themselves heard. "In a few years," reasons one of them, "I shall have gained a standing, and then I shall use my powers for good." Next year comes and with it a strange discovery. The man has lost his horizon of thought, his ambition has evaporated; he has nothing to say. I give you this one rule of conduct. Do what you will, but speak out always. Be shunned, be hated, be ridiculed, be scared, be in doubt, but don't be gagged. The time of trial is always. Now is the appointed time.

John J. Chapman
Commencement Address to the Graduating Class of Hobart College, 1900

I found Chapman's speech quoted in the printed edition of The Cluetrain Manifesto, and from the moment I read it, I was unable to rest until I had up on my website at the above URL.

It's not easy to speak out about what you believe in, but if more people did, the world would be a better place.

Another Computing First??

[Catiline]

Hmm... I read this story and thought...
Is this the first time that a piece of software was defended when it did its' job-- but not what they told people-- by claiming "That's a bug, not a feature"?

Then I noticed my tinfoil hat was maladjusted. So I guess they really did goof, Carnivore is just a powerful (if maladjusted) tool for law enforcement, and my fears to the contrary are just their attempts to discredit my typical insights into their foul ways with an insidiously sublte use of their orbital mind control rays.