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ACLU and ALA Victorious in CIPA Challenge

Several people have submitted this news blurb about a victory in the CIPA case. If CIPA doesn't ring a bell, my earlier summary should help, or see this article from last month when the suit was heard in court. The ALA's CIPA page has more information, or read the lengthy decision. This is a rather surprising bit of good news; while the government often has great discretion in deciding how funds are spent (read my summary above for how the law worked), the judges in this case accepted the argument that requiring censoring software automatically lead to censoring things that weren't obscene, or child pornography, or "harmful to minors", and that that wasn't acceptable. I've reproduced the first part of the decision below. The government may choose to (and probably will) appeal to the Supreme Court.

Preliminary Statement

This case challenges an act of Congress that makes the use of filtering software by public libraries a condition of the receipt of federal funding. The Internet, as is well known, is a vast, interactive medium based on a decentralized network of computers around the world. Its most familiar feature is the World Wide Web (the "Web"), a network of computers known as servers that provide content to users. The Internet provides easy access to anyone who wishes to provide or distribute information to a worldwide audience; it is used by more than 143 million Americans. Indeed, much of the world's knowledge accumulated over centuries is available to Internet users almost instantly. Approximately 10% of the Americans who use the Internet access it at public libraries. And approximately 95% of all public libraries in the United States provide public access to the Internet.

While the beneficial effect of the Internet in expanding the amount of information available to its users is self-evident, its low entry barriers have also led to a perverse result - facilitation of the widespread dissemination of hardcore pornography within the easy reach not only of adults who have every right to access it (so long as it is not legally obscene or child pornography), but also of children and adolescents to whom it may be quite harmful. The volume of pornography on the Internet is huge, and the record before us demonstrates that public library patrons of all ages, many from ages 11 to 15, have regularly sought to access it in public library settings. There are more than 100,000 pornographic Web sites that can be accessed for free and without providing any registration information, and tens of thousands of Web sites contain child pornography.

Libraries have reacted to this situation by utilizing a number of means designed to insure that patrons avoid illegal (and unwanted) content while also enabling patrons to find the content they desire. Some libraries have trained patrons in how to use the Internet while avoiding illegal content, or have directed their patrons to "preferred" Web sites that librarians have reviewed. Other libraries have utilized such devices as recessing the computer monitors, installing privacy screens, and monitoring implemented by a "tap on the shoulder" of patrons perceived to be offending library policy. Still others, viewing the foregoing approaches as inadequate or uncomfortable (some librarians do not wish to confront patrons), have purchased commercially available software that blocks certain categories of material deemed by the library board as unsuitable for use in their facilities. Indeed, 7% of American public libraries use blocking software for adults. Although such programs are somewhat effective in blocking large quantities of pornography, they are blunt instruments that not only "underblock," i.e., fail to block access to substantial amounts of content that the library boards wish to exclude, but also, central to this litigation, "overblock," i.e., block access to large quantities of material that library boards do not wish to exclude and that is constitutionally protected.

Most of the libraries that use filtering software seek to block sexually explicit speech. While most libraries include in their physical collection copies of volumes such as The Joy of Sex and The Joy of Gay Sex, which contain quite explicit photographs and descriptions, filtering software blocks large quantities of other, comparable information about health and sexuality that adults and teenagers seek on the Web. One teenager testified that the Internet access in a public library was the only venue in which she could obtain information important to her about her own sexuality. Another library patron witness described using the Internet to research breast cancer and reconstructive surgery for his mother who had breast surgery. Even though some filtering programs contain exceptions for health and education, the exceptions do not solve the problem of overblocking constitutionally protected material. Moreover, as we explain below, the filtering software on which the parties presented evidence in this case overblocks not only information relating to health and sexuality that might be mistaken for pornography or erotica, but also vast numbers of Web pages and sites that could not even arguably be construed as harmful or inappropriate for adults or minors.

The Congress, sharing the concerns of many library boards, enacted the Children's Internet Protection Act ("CIPA"), Pub. L. No. 106-554, which makes the use of filters by a public library a condition of its receipt of two kinds of subsidies that are important (or even critical) to the budgets of many public libraries - grants under the Library Services and Technology Act, 20 U.S.C. 9101 et seq. ("LSTA"), and so-called "E-rate discounts" for Internet access and support under the Telecommunications Act, 47 U.S.C. 254. LSTA grant funds are awarded, inter alia, in order to: (1) assist libraries in accessing information through electronic networks, and (2) provide targeted library and information services to persons having difficulty using a library and to underserved and rural communities, including children from families with incomes below the poverty line. E-rate discounts serve the similar purpose of extending Internet access to schools and libraries in low-income communities. CIPA requires that libraries, in order to receive LSTA funds or E-rate discounts, certify that they are using a "technology protection measure" that prevents patrons from accessing "visual depictions" that are "obscene," "child pornography," or in the case of minors, "harmful to minors." 20 U.S.C. 9134(f)(1)(A) (LSTA); 47 U.S.C. 254(h)(6)(B) & (C) (E-rate).

The plaintiffs, a group of libraries, library associations, library patrons, and Web site publishers, brought this suit against the United States and others alleging that CIPA is facially unconstitutional because: (1) it induces public libraries to violate their patrons' First Amendment rights contrary to the requirements of South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203 (1987); and (2) it requires libraries to relinquish their First Amendment rights as a condition on the receipt of federal funds and is therefore impermissible under the doctrine of unconstitutional conditions. In arguing that CIPA will induce public libraries to violate the First Amendment, the plaintiffs contend that given the limits of the filtering technology, CIPA's conditions effectively require libraries to impose content-based restrictions on their patrons' access to constitutionally protected speech. According to the plaintiffs, these content-based restrictions are subject to strict scrutiny under public forum doctrine, see Rosenberger v. Rector & Visitors of Univ. of Va., 515 U.S. 819, 837 (1995), and are therefore permissible only if they are narrowly tailored to further a compelling state interest and no less restrictive alternatives would further that interest, see Reno v. ACLU, 521 U.S. 844, 874 (1997).(1) The government responds that CIPA will not induce public libraries to violate the First Amendment, since it is possible for at least some public libraries to constitutionally comply with CIPA's conditions. Even if some libraries' use of filters might violate the First Amendment, the government submits that CIPA can be facially invalidated only if it is impossible for any public library to comply with its conditions without violating the First Amendment.

Pursuant to CIPA, a three-judge Court was convened to try the issues. Pub. L. No. 106-554. Following an intensive period of discovery on an expedited schedule to allow public libraries to know whether they need to certify compliance with CIPA by July 1, 2002, to receive subsidies for the upcoming year, the Court conducted an eight-day trial at which we heard 20 witnesses, and received numerous depositions, stipulations and documents. The principal focus of the trial was on the capacity of currently available filtering software. The plaintiffs adduced substantial evidence not only that filtering programs bar access to a substantial amount of speech on the Internet that is clearly constitutionally protected for adults and minors, but also that these programs are intrinsically unable to block only illegal Internet content while simultaneously allowing access to all protected speech.

As our extensive findings of fact reflect, the plaintiffs demonstrated that thousands of Web pages containing protected speech are wrongly blocked by the four leading filtering programs, and these pages represent only a fraction of Web pages wrongly blocked by the programs. The plaintiffs' evidence explained that the problems faced by the manufacturers and vendors of filtering software are legion. The Web is extremely dynamic, with an estimated 1.5 million new pages added every day and the contents of existing Web pages changing very rapidly. The category lists maintained by the blocking programs are considered to be proprietary information, and hence are unavailable to customers or the general public for review, so that public libraries that select categories when implementing filtering software do not really know what they are blocking.

There are many reasons why filtering software suffers from extensive over- and underblocking, which we will explain below in great detail. They center on the limitations on filtering companies' ability to: (1) accurately collect Web pages that potentially fall into a blocked category (e.g., pornography); (2) review and categorize Web pages that they have collected; and (3) engage in regular re-review of Web pages that they have previously reviewed. These failures spring from constraints on the technology of automated classification systems, and the limitations inherent in human review, including error, misjudgment, and scarce resources, which we describe in detail infra at 58-74. One failure of critical importance is that the automated systems that filtering companies use to collect Web pages for classification are able to search only text, not images. This is crippling to filtering companies' ability to collect pages containing "visual depictions" that are obscene, child pornography, or harmful to minors, as CIPA requires. As will appear, we find that it is currently impossible, given the Internet's size, rate of growth, rate of change, and architecture, and given the state of the art of automated classification systems, to develop a filter that neither underblocks nor overblocks a substantial amount of speech.

The government, while acknowledging that the filtering software is imperfect, maintains that it is nonetheless quite effective, and that it successfully blocks the vast majority of the Web pages that meet filtering companies' category definitions (e.g., pornography). The government contends that no more is required. In its view, so long as the filtering software selected by the libraries screens out the bulk of the Web pages proscribed by CIPA, the libraries have made a reasonable choice which suffices, under the applicable legal principles, to pass constitutional muster in the context of a facial challenge. Central to the government's position is the analogy it advances between Internet filtering and the initial decision of a library to determine which materials to purchase for its print collection. Public libraries have finite budgets and must make choices as to whether to purchase, for example, books on gardening or books on golf. Such content-based decisions, even the plaintiffs concede, are subject to rational basis review and not a stricter form of First Amendment scrutiny. In the government's view, the fact that the Internet reverses the acquisition process and requires the libraries to, in effect, purchase the entire Internet, some of which (e.g., hardcore pornography) it does not want, should not mean that it is chargeable with censorship when it filters out offending material.

The legal context in which this extensive factual record is set is complex, implicating a number of constitutional doctrines, including the constitutional limitations on Congress's spending clause power, the unconstitutional conditions doctrine, and subsidiary to these issues, the First Amendment doctrines of prior restraint, vagueness, and overbreadth. There are a number of potential entry points into the analysis, but the most logical is the spending clause jurisprudence in which the seminal case is South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203 (1987). Dole outlines four categories of constraints on Congress's exercise of its power under the Spending Clause, but the only Dole condition disputed here is the fourth and last, i.e., whether CIPA requires libraries that receive LSTA funds or E-rate discounts to violate the constitutional rights of their patrons. As will appear, the question is not a simple one, and turns on the level of scrutiny applicable to a public library's content-based restrictions on patrons' Internet access. Whether such restrictions are subject to strict scrutiny, as plaintiffs contend, or only rational basis review, as the government contends, depends on public forum doctrine.

The government argues that, in providing Internet access, public libraries do not create a public forum, since public libraries may reserve the right to exclude certain speakers from availing themselves of the forum. Accordingly, the government contends that public libraries' restrictions on patrons' Internet access are subject only to rational basis review.

Plaintiffs respond that the government's ability to restrict speech on its own property, as in the case of restrictions on Internet access in public libraries, is not unlimited, and that the more widely the state facilitates the dissemination of private speech in a given forum, the more vulnerable the state's decision is to restrict access to speech in that forum. We agree with the plaintiffs that public libraries' content-based restrictions on their patrons' Internet access are subject to strict scrutiny. In providing even filtered Internet access, public libraries create a public forum open to any speaker around the world to communicate with library patrons via the Internet on a virtually unlimited number of topics. Where the state provides access to a "vast democratic forum[]," Reno v. ACLU, 521 U.S. 844, 868 (1997), open to any member of the public to speak on subjects "as diverse as human thought," id. at 870 (internal quotation marks and citation omitted), the state's decision selectively to exclude from the forum speech whose content the state disfavors is subject to strict scrutiny, as such exclusions risk distorting the marketplace of ideas that the state has facilitated. Application of strict scrutiny finds further support in the extent to which public libraries' provision of Internet access uniquely promotes First Amendment values in a manner analogous to traditional public fora such as streets, sidewalks, and parks, in which content-based restrictions are always subject to strict scrutiny.

Under strict scrutiny, a public library's use of filtering software is permissible only if it is narrowly tailored to further a compelling government interest and no less restrictive alternative would serve that interest. We acknowledge that use of filtering software furthers public libraries' legitimate interests in preventing patrons from accessing visual depictions of obscenity, child pornography, or in the case of minors, material harmful to minors. Moreover, use of filters also helps prevent patrons from being unwillingly exposed to patently offensive, sexually explicit content on the Internet.

We are sympathetic to the position of the government, believing that it would be desirable if there were a means to ensure that public library patrons could share in the informational bonanza of the Internet while being insulated from materials that meet CIPA's definitions, that is, visual depictions that are obscene, child pornography, or in the case of minors, harmful to minors. Unfortunately this outcome, devoutly to be wished, is not available in this less than best of all possible worlds. No category definition used by the blocking programs is identical to the legal definitions of obscenity, child pornography, or material harmful to minors, and, at all events, filtering programs fail to block access to a substantial amount of content on the Internet that falls into the categories defined by CIPA. As will appear, we credit the testimony of plaintiffs' expert Dr. Geoffrey Nunberg that the blocking software is (at least for the foreseeable future) incapable of effectively blocking the majority of materials in the categories defined by CIPA without overblocking a substantial amount of materials. Nunberg's analysis was supported by extensive record evidence. As noted above, this inability to prevent both substantial amounts of underblocking and overblocking stems from several sources, including limitations on the technology that software filtering companies use to gather and review Web pages, limitations on resources for human review of Web pages, and the necessary error that results from human review processes.

Because the filtering software mandated by CIPA will block access to substantial amounts of constitutionally protected speech whose suppression serves no legitimate government interest, we are persuaded that a public library's use of software filters is not narrowly tailored to further any of these interests. Moreover, less restrictive alternatives exist that further the government's legitimate interest in preventing the dissemination of obscenity, child pornography, and material harmful to minors, and in preventing patrons from being unwillingly exposed to patently offensive, sexually explicit content. To prevent patrons from accessing visual depictions that are obscene and child pornography, public libraries may enforce Internet use policies that make clear to patrons that the library's Internet terminals may not be used to access illegal speech. Libraries may then impose penalties on patrons who violate these policies, ranging from a warning to notification of law enforcement, in the appropriate case. Less restrictive alternatives to filtering that further libraries' interest in preventing minors from exposure to visual depictions that are harmful to minors include requiring parental consent to or presence during unfiltered access, or restricting minors' unfiltered access to terminals within view of library staff. Finally, optional filtering, privacy screens, recessed monitors, and placement of unfiltered Internet terminals outside of sight-lines provide less restrictive alternatives for libraries to prevent patrons from being unwillingly exposed to sexually explicit content on the Internet.

In an effort to avoid the potentially fatal legal implications of the overblocking problem, the government falls back on the ability of the libraries, under CIPA's disabling provisions, see CIPA 1712 (codified at 20 U.S.C. 9134(f)(3)), CIPA 1721(b) (codified at 47 U.S.C. 254(h)(6)(D)), to unblock a site that is patently proper yet improperly blocked. The evidence reflects that libraries can and do unblock the filters when a patron so requests. But it also reflects that requiring library patrons to ask for a Web site to be unblocked will deter many patrons because they are embarrassed, or desire to protect their privacy or remain anonymous. Moreover, the unblocking may take days, and may be unavailable, especially in branch libraries, which are often less well staffed than main libraries. Accordingly, CIPA's disabling provisions do not cure the constitutional deficiencies in public libraries' use of Internet filters.

Under these circumstances we are constrained to conclude that the library plaintiffs must prevail in their contention that CIPA requires them to violate the First Amendment rights of their patrons, and accordingly is facially invalid, even under the standard urged on us by the government, which would permit us to facially invalidate CIPA only if it is impossible for a single public library to comply with CIPA's conditions without violating the First Amendment. In view of the limitations inherent in the filtering technology mandated by CIPA, any public library that adheres to CIPA's conditions will necessarily restrict patrons' access to a substantial amount of protected speech, in violation of the First Amendment. Given this conclusion, we need not reach plaintiffs' arguments that CIPA effects a prior restraint on speech and is unconstitutionally vague. Nor do we decide their cognate unconstitutional conditions theory, though for reasons explained infra at note 36, we discuss the issues raised by that claim at some length.

For these reasons, we will enter an Order declaring Sections 1712(a)(2) and 1721(b) of the Children's Internet Protection Act, codified at 20 U.S.C. 9134(f) and 47 U.S.C. 254(h)(6), respectively, to be facially invalid under the First Amendment and permanently enjoining the defendants from enforcing those provisions.

27 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. Look familiar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The government, while acknowledging that the filtering software is imperfect, maintains that it is nonetheless quite effective, and that it successfully blocks the vast majority of the Web pages that meet filtering companies' category definitions (e.g., pornography). The government contends that no more is required."

    - This didn't work for Napster either. At least the courts are being consistent.

  2. Our Best Defense by lionchild · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Our best defense for protecting our children from things on the Internet that we don't want them to see, is to be active, responsible adults. That means we shouldn't leave our under aged offspring to roam around freely in places where they could be exposed.

    If we, the ones who spawned our children, aren't responsible for protecting them, why should someone else (including the government) be concerned about doing it for us?

    I think it all boils down to being responsible adults to those who aren't yet adult enough to be responsible.

    --
    Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    1. Re:Our Best Defense by -brazil- · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well d'oh. The point here is that one would generally consider a public library a place where one could let one's children go safely and without supervision instead of worrying about pornography and whatnot. Do you want (or are able to) to supervise your children every second of their lives?

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    2. Re:Our Best Defense by zenyu · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The point here is that one would generally consider a public library a place where one could let one's children go safely and without supervision instead of worrying about pornography and whatnot.

      Librarians hate you, you know. I worked at a community library in high school and unsupervised children were a huge problem. You can't just kick them out when they make noise or generally act like unsupervised children. You have to find the irresponcible parent and have the "you're a bad parent" speech. I think my supervisor had no problem with it, but it's hard for a 16 year old to explain to a 35 year old that people are trying to study, and will you please take you're hellspawn out of here NOW.

    3. Re:Our Best Defense by Trekologer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point here is that one would generally consider a public library a place where one could let one's children go safely and without supervision instead of worrying about pornography and whatnot. Do you want (or are able to) to supervise your children every second of their lives?

      This is the FUD that has been dished out over "protecting children".

      The public library is the cornerstone of our free society. There, you can access tons of information and entertainment for free. The Internet is the logical extension of the library. To have the government forcefully block off part of it is like having anything with the word Shakespeare in it blocked because he might not be popular with someone. In fact, censoring Shakespeare might be a good idea to protect children. After all, Romeo and Juliet has killings and suicides which are both dangerous to children.

      If you look at the filtering software, none of them are totally objective. In fact, most are quite subjective. They block not just "obscene" material but also unpopular speech and anything else that the software publisher feels like blocking, including material that is critical of them.

      And if a child would be looking at pornography over the Internet, they surely wouldn't be doing it at the library, where the computers are out in the open for anyone to see. They're doing it at home (or a friend's house) while unsupervised.

      That's right, at home. Where you, the parents, are supposed to be watching over them. Not at the library, not at school, but at home.

      The best defense to pornography on the Internet is simple parents monitoring their children. Moniroting them all of the time comes with the territory. Barring having your eye on them all the time, parents at least need to instill in their children what's right and wrong and how to make the right decision. If you aren't prepared or willing to do that, then maybe you shouldn't have children.

  3. Where's the penalties? by Telastyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's now laws in the US to try to prevent, and in most cases punish dumb, useless lawsuits. Where's a similar provision for dumb, useless laws that are blatantly in violation of the constitution?

  4. Expected by loxosceles · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The courts are fairly consistent in throwing out junk legislation like this when it is shown to substantially impede protected free speech. It sounds like the ACLU did a good job of demonstrating that web filters do a terrible job and are not a magic bullet.

    The cases that are argued purely on the basis of "rights" and on philosophical grounds are not usually as successful for the side representing "freedom."

  5. Connection to another case by L.+VeGas · · Score: 3, Funny

    In a related case, the National Organization of Tissue Manufacturers and the Petroleum Jelly Consortium have been convicted both of jury tampering and bribing judges.

  6. Third time's a charm? by daoine · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As much as we hear about our rights being taken away, I'm optimistic about the direction that this particular situation is moving. The CDA was declared unconsitutional, COPA is being challenged as unconstitutional due to its vagueness, and now CIPA is going down the same path.

    Just as you won't find pr0n is a kids' bookstore, I'd much prefer to see these lawmakers focusing on the .kids.us domain and other proactive measures, rather than trying to limit what already is.

  7. New Rights by jvmatthe · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Throughout history, we have expanded the definition of what "rights" one is entitled to. This ruling could be a move towards defining a right for Americans to have free and open access to information and from there towards making it a basic human right. This line from the CNN article at least seems to have this flavor:
    They [the judges] say it denies poor people without home computers the same full access to information as their wealthier neighbors.

    Eben Moglen came and gave a talk to our LUG (and other groups) here and one question he asked that has stuck with me is this: "If all the human race's collected information could be made available to anyone, anywhere, at any time, for marginal cost, would it be moral to restrict access to that informtion?"


    Perhaps the courts are saying the answer is "No, everyone should have access to all the information that can be provided for them."

  8. Kids & porn by revscat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For reasons which will become obvious shortly, I have to preface this by saying that this is not a troll. It's an honest question.

    Why are we so conerned with keeping children away from porn? Let's take a worst-case scenario, and ask what exactly the results are supposed to be if some seven year old girl stumbles across "Debbie Does Dallas"? The unspoken assumption seems to be that she will be irrepairably harmed by such material, but I challenge that statement. I remember running across a Penthouse once when I was a pre-pubescent kid; I thought it was interesting, but after a while I just went back to playing other decidedly non-sexual games.

    Now before I start getting flamed to death, I am by no means advocating for Disney to start showing full-penetration in their latest animated release. Further, I believe that child pornography is abhorent and rightfully illegal. My question simply revolves around the claimed ill effects to minors who view porn.

    1. Re:Kids & porn by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't believe the problem is kids & porn. I think the issue here is that the condition of putting ineffective software to filter the web connection in order to get federal funding. The software doesn't work. Libraries know it. The software manufactures know it. The government knows it. It blocks too much stuff that should have gone through, and doesn't block a lot of stuff that it was suppose to filter.

      I don't feel that I should have a right to go to my local library and look up porn. I do believe that I should be able to look up information on breast cancer (blocked - Sexuality, language), information or text about Catcher in the Rye (blocked - language), or anyone of thousands of legitimate websites that are blocked incorrectly.

    2. Re:Kids & porn by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're absolutely right. Pron doesn't fuck kids up, mysogynist comments by families and friends are going to re-inforce gender inequality issues way the fuck more than some anonymous porn site.

      It's hilarious to think of the droves of fathers that think their kids viewing porn is a bad thing, but then casually refer to the secretary at work as a 'hot chick with a nice ass' to a friend in their child's presence.

      Porn isn't bad - thinking the women in porn are good for no more than porn is. I saw pron (as I think most urban children have at some point or another) when I was a child, and I'm one of the least sexist people I know. I'm forever defending porn against the same friends who pick up Stuff or FMV, oogle at the latest starlet, and cackle and the downright mysogynist content. The more we bring bring porn 'up' on the popular culture, the safer and more equal place it will be for its participants. All attempts to squash and censor it will simply allow its participants to operate in an area where public conciousness fears to tread - ensuring that its activites dovetail with the other cultures pushed underground (drugs, sex trade, etc).

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    3. Re:Kids & porn by dirk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are we so conerned with keeping children away from porn? Let's take a worst-case scenario, and ask what exactly the results are supposed to be if some seven year old girl stumbles across "Debbie Does Dallas"? The unspoken assumption seems to be that she will be irrepairably harmed by such material, but I challenge that statement. I remember running across a Penthouse once when I was a pre-pubescent kid; I thought it was interesting, but after a while I just went back to playing other decidedly non-sexual games.

      If this was the extent of porn on the net, I would agree with you completely. The real question is, have you looked at the porn on the net? Daily I get spam in my inbox for incest, beastiality, and occasionally necrophila. The problem isn't kids seeing "nudie pictures", it's kids seeing women having sex with a dog or donkey. And this doesn't even take into account the number of sites with pictures of decomposing bodies and gaping chest wounds. Saying all this is about pictures of naked women is to ignore the reality of what is available on the internet.

      That being said, I don't support use of blocking software in public libraries until it is at least 99% accurate (and it's a far way from there).

      --

      "Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
    4. Re:Kids & porn by Rupert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Public masturbation is a misdemeanor in most states.

      If their own mothers can't control them, then the software developers at NetNanny can't do much to help.

      --

      --
      E_NOSIG
  9. 'Protecting' kids is a disservice by Sean+Clifford · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Hurrah! Now kids can actually do research on breast cancer, pregnancy, and a host of other subjects without getting the big fat "blocked by CensorWare 4.3."

    'Protecting' kids from the realities of the world is a great disservice. They'll end up clueless adults who have a hard time fitting in with society. I may sound like a broken record here, but kids don't need protection from porn or sex. For my pr0n argument, counter-arguments, and a really nice discussion thread, look here.

    Keeping kids in the dark about sex and other 'unsavory' subjects is stupid. It only compounds the problems of STDs and unwanted pregnancy. Keeping kids in the dark about drugs, violence, politics, history, and other subjects is equally bankrupt. The 'innocent childhood' is a ridiculous concept and a disservice to kids.

  10. Don't Be Quick to Blame the ACLA or ALA by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't Be quick to blame the ACLA or ALA for children having access to pr0n -- rather blame the legislators who write sloppy, special interest crippled legislation. If congress could ever intelligently craft legislation and keep crippling amendments away from it, there will be a better chance of something like this not being thrown out on "protected speech" rulings.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  11. Re:I'd love to see some un-biased news by gilroy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Blockquoth the poster:

    Tell me why anyone would defend porn?

    This is not about defending porn. It's about defending a citizen's right to control his/her own access to information, some of which may be porn. It disturbs me to see how many people -- willfully or, worse, not -- miss the distinction and refuse to think at the right level of abstraction.


    The question is, who determines what you see? You, or the government? And before you rant off about not wanting "your" tax dollars showing porn, let me state that I don't want any of my tax dollars supporting intrusive government-mandated censorship.

  12. In related news... by supabeast! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every public library in the USA continues to stock numerous copies of the bible, a book with numerous graphic depictions of sex, rape, incest, murder, infanticide, torture, and just about anything else that human beings consider offensive.

  13. Re:I'd love to see some un-biased news by Aexia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    CNN "say that the law takes an inappropriate one-size-fits-all approach that treats children and adults the same"

    No, dumbass. CNN did not "say" that. CNN is summarizing what "Critics of the law" say.

    Some of the problem is adults whacking off in libraries looking at porn. We can protect the kids from that by banning porn altogether.

    Then why don't you just deal with the adults who are whacking off in public and leave the rest of us alone? And if you think banning porn will "protect" kids from public indecency, you've got another thing coming. (no pun intended)

    Libraries are increasingly having to deal with people doing all sorts of inappropriate things: shooting drugs, having sex, etc. A lot of it is due to the lack of affordable housing and unemployment. People go to the library because it's relatively quie, air conditioned/heated, and they have no where else to go.

    Ban the porn and you're still going to have a problem. So why not deal with the actual problem instead of a manufactured "cause" of it?

    Another problem is state funds. I for one never want to see my tax dollars being use *even once* for viewing crap like porn. So ban it. If our excuse is that in blocking porn we may also block some other "protected" speech, then we are obviously just making excuses.

    And since you're consistant, you'll support the banning of any other pornographic materials at the library as well. That means any books related to sex, anatomy books and the Bible.

    And while we're deciding what our tax dollars can and cannot support, let me add my list:
    Nuclear weapons
    Corporate subsidies
    Half the Pentagon's budget
    White House staff salaries
    Any program that may benefit you in particular

    That CNN report is one side of the story, and doesn't even mention the other side.

    Oh look! It's the other side of the story! Didn't read too hard did ya?

    "Justice Department lawyers defending the law argued that Internet smut is so pervasive that protections are necessary to keep it away from youngsters, and that the law simply calls for libraries to use the same care in selecting online content that they use for books and magazines.

    "They also point out that libraries can simply turn down the federal funding if they want to provide unfiltered Web access."

    This is just a case of them furthering their agenda by trying to get poor people on their side.

    Again, as it's patently obvious to anyone with half a brain, CNN is summarizing something someone else is saying. In this case, the ACLU.

    "Attorneys for the American Library Association and the American Civil Liberties Union contend the law is unenforceable, unconstitutional, vague and overbroad. They say it denies poor people without home computers the same full access to information as their wealthier neighbors."

    What about the millions of Americans (including the poor) that don't want their children subject to pornography?

    Generally, libraries will not give internet access to children without their parents' permission. Don't want kids looking up porn at the library? Don't give them permission. Problem solved.

    If we'd simply apply the decency laws to libraries like we do to our city streets, we'd solve the problem.

    I agree. So why would you need to ban pornographic materials if you're enforcing the decency laws? If someone is not being publicly indecent in the library, then why does it matter to you whether they view porn on computers at the library?

    Tell me why anyone would defend porn?

    Cause it's neat.

  14. A Librarian Responds by vaxer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some of the problem is adults whacking off in libraries looking at porn. We can protect the kids from that by banning porn altogether.

    Or as a saner person might have said, "by having people arrested if they whack off at a public Internet workstation". Filters throw out the baby and keep the bathwater.

    Idiots have been arrested for committing crimes in the library before, and as long as they keep making a nuisance of themselves, we librarians will keep LARTing them.

    What about the millions of Americans (including the poor) that don't want their children subject to pornography?

    They probably shouldn't abdicate their parental authority by treating public libraries as a free babysitting service. Here's a free hint for those bereft of clue: leaving your child unattended in a public place is a Bad Idea.

  15. Re:Court listened to my anticensorware work! by BilldaCat · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Look, can we take this to e-mail?"

    so I can stalk you too? I NEED NEW TARGETS.

    --
    BilldaCat
  16. Double Standard Or Not? by Buran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "the judges in this case accepted the argument that requiring censoring software automatically lead to censoring things that weren't obscene, or child pornography, or "harmful to minors", and that that wasn't acceptable."

    There's something I don't quite understand here. This is not a troll but an honest puzzled reaction.

    It seems to me that this verdict, in particular the phrase which I have repeated above to clarify my position, seems to indicate that there are differing standards (at least to the court) regarding the application of censoring software. In the DeCSS case, it is my understanding that the courts are allowing censorship of the code and ruling that its publication can be blocked because it is harmful (to the profits of the movie inddustry.) In those cases, the argument that the code is free speech and thus protected by the First Amendment was denied, even though not everyone would be harmed by the posted code; the government is basically allowing censoring of something that is only harmful to a minority of citizens.

    But in this case, the needs of the many did outweigh the needs of the few.

    Where is the difference? Are words and symbols on a screen less worthy of protection than pixels on that same screen?

    Opinions invited.

  17. Public Libraries are NOT Public Daycare by gdyas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Part of the problem with people wanting to sanitize the library, at least in my neck of the woods, is that you get some no-good parents who treat it as a damned daycare facility. This is slightly O/T, but germane to the perception people have of libraries.

    The main branch of the library in my town is located downtown in a shopping district that also has a certain amount of homelessness, etc. I've been in the library and seen these moron parents walk their kids in the front door, kiss them on the forehead, and leave them for a good 1-2 hours. I could understand this behavior in a small town, but this isn't one. Nevermind that it's no librarian's job to look after your kids. Combine that with the homeless degenerates that skulk about it for hours to escape the summer heat and it's not a place I'd consider leaving my kid alone in for a second. In addition, unattended children damage library property. I've had librarians tell me that they get about 20 kids who spend the time between school and when their parents arrive to pick them up there. There have been fights, the police have had to come, take kids to the station & call their parents to come get them, but they keep coming back. It's ridiculous.

    The library is a public accomodation, not your private accomodation to control or do with as you will. To me, the people who seek either to abuse or control the content of libraries are on the same level as those who defile public toilets.

    --

    The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.

    1. Re:Public Libraries are NOT Public Daycare by Triv · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Careful buster. This statement: Combine that with the homeless degenerates that skulk about it for hours to escape the summer heat and it's not a place I'd consider leaving my kid alone in for a second.

      and this one:

      The library is a public accomodation, not your private accomodation to control or do with as you will.

      don't jive. Libraries are public property, for the public benefit, be that benefit in the form of knowledge or air conditioning. Those "homeless degenerates" as you call them have as much of a right to be there as you or your kids do. I've ducked int the local library on swelteringly hot days to avoid the sun - does that make me a degenerate?

      I'm not trying to beat you down, but that minor hypocracy kinda lept out at me. Information should be free to access by all. Yes. As someone else already quoted, not everyone owns a computer and a library is all about free access to information, just like some people can't afford books.

      Just as information should be free and public, public spaces by definition should be free and open to anyone.

      Triv

  18. Kids, computers and libraries by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm the sysadmin for a library deep in the buckle of the bible belt. We will be returning to the rules in effect prior to CIPA.

    Kids can't access the net without showing their library card. With that we lookup what their PARENTS selected when they authorized them to have net access. Our records will show one of the following choices:

    1. No Access

    2. Only with a parent present

    3. Filtered Access

    4. Unfiltered access

    Then it depends where they access. ANYONE, child or adult, who accesses from an exposed monitor will have web access filtered. We have 14 workstations with recessed displays in our main branch and one at each rural branch.

    Filtered users also have IRC & telnet restricted, unfiltered users have access to text services even on the exposed stations.

    We have used variations of this policy of parental control since 1995 and even in this VERY conservative community have had zero complaints. Some parents might want to impose their rules on others, but seem to know they wouldn't get very far with it.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  19. Re:Wrong! by kindbud · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is one thing for an individual to use his own money to buy porn, but quite another for a library to use my tax dollars to not only buy it, but offer it to my children against my wishes.

    No library has done that. "Making available" and "offering" are two distinctly different acts. No one who enters a library is accosted with an offer to view porn. "Offering" is an active pursuit, "making available" is quite passive.

    An individual's supposed "right" to view pornography does not override my right to protect my children from things that I judge to be harmful.

    You have no such right. It is not even reasonable to expect such a thing. If your child is injured and requires a blood transfusion, the child should receive one, whether or not your family observes religious prohibitions against transfusions.

    A rather infamous mother in Texas was recently sentenced for killing her children to protect them from Satanic harm. She had no right to do that, even though in her judgement she was protecting her children from harm.

    My tax dollars should not be used to harm my children.

    "Personal judgment" is NOT a community standard of any sort, and has NO application to whether pornography is obscene or harmful to children. If it were, then I could judge my children to have been harmed by censorship, and can argue just as credibly as you can, that my tax dollars should not be used to harm my children. Your "personal judgment" argument holds no water, because it just as easily supports any viewpoint at all, which makes it effectively no argument at all.

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die