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The Almighty Buck

The NYT Magazine this week focuses on a topic near and dear to its heart: money. Stories about the dotcom boom, priorities, the cult of Wall Street. Some of the stories are interesting, as with this comparison of how far a dollar goes depending on where you live. Some are disturbing, like this one on CEO salaries. And several are (unintentionally) humorous, like this one about bankrupt Etoys and this one, by a rich writer who believes everyone else is rich too.

21 of 514 comments (clear)

  1. Kind of ironic... by Sorthum · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...that this is done by the New York Times, who requires you to register so they can sell your personal info (or at least demographic information) for more "almighty bucks."

  2. Sure is a struggle.. by creative_name · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The 'almighty buck' is a concept I think most people (even us geeks) battles. Even Linus in his book Just for Fun talks about how he wouldn't mind some more of it. Everyone wants it. Everyone would like it in huge quantities. Just some people are willing to do a lot more to get it.

    Guess that's the story of our lives. Some people have it. Most people want it. Few people get it. Oh well.

    --
    Posting as directed.
  3. How is the Brooks article unintentionally funny? by RasputinAXP · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It seems that upon reading the article, David Brooks has placed his tongue firmly in cheek while writing about how we as Americans (#include ) are richer than most anybody in the world.

    It's true.

    Fact is, we spend more than most people in the world make. We're a consumptionist society. We invented disposable plates and cups and diapers and everything else. Sake of convienience, isn't it?

    I agree with his article where it describes the 'poor' of the US as wanting things they can't afford. Poor here is defined as "earning between $17,000 and $34,000 a year."

    I don't make much more than that, and I've got all of these computers, and an XBox, and a Dreamcast, and...well, not to get too far into it, but I've bought a lot of crap I don't need, but I want. I have nobody but myself to blame.

    But don't hide under a rock and take this article as a joke. I've started to think about what the hell I'm spending all of this money on long before I read the article.

    Next time you buy 3 DVD's at Best Buy, take a step back. Do yourself a favor.

  4. It's really weird by jcsehak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's the same happy : unhappy ratio of rich and poor people. Yet I swear, no matter how many times it hasn't happened, if I had a little more cash, life would be a lot better.

    All the major religions, all those philosophers mentioned in the last article seem to say "the key to true happiness is inside you," but I feel like the Greatest American Hero: where's the manual?

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    c-hack.com |
  5. Writer believes everyone is rich? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds to me like he thinks every American is rich. He has a point.

    How many color televisions and refrigerators are owned by the typical poor person in America? How many color televisions and refrigerators are owned by the typical Bangledeshi?

    How many times per week does the typical poor American get to eat clean food, versus his Third World counterpart?

    Health care may not be free, but *no* injured person is turned away from an emergency room.

    Poor people today don't have to worry about many problems that would have killed even rich people 75 years ago, so I think the author is justified in regarding virtually all Americans as rich.

  6. Re:well that article is right by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not to deny that these people are poor, but don't fall into the common trap of believing that a dollar number represents some objective thing.

    A dollar isn't a dollar. A dollar is what you can *buy* with it.

    When I lived in a Mexican fishing village I rented a house for $4/mo.

    A lobster was less than a dime, as was a bushel basket of tomatoes or a 10 lb. watermelon.

    Industrially manufactured goods are beyond the reach of many people, ( so they still have active communities instead of watching television), but the necessities of life are always inline with local incomes.

    It's called the free market. Prices of locally produced items are local *variables,* and baring disaster and famine, food and shelter is often *cheaper,* ( in the real buying power), than it is in more "developed" countries.

    I have never lived among more sociable and *happier* people than those with a self-sustaining local economy. True poverty is a lack of food, clothing, shelter and community, *not* lack of money.

    KFG

  7. CEO Salaries by z4ce · · Score: 3, Insightful
    • Good CEOs are very scarce.
    • Good CEOs build companies and produce profits.


    Therefore, good CEOs are worth a lot of money.

    Why is this so difficult for people to comprehend? Why do they continually whine about how much CEOs are paid. They are paid that because they are scarce. In general, they're the best business men in the world. Why is it shocking they're paid so much?
    1. Re:CEO Salaries by Osty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is this so difficult for people to comprehend? Why do they continually whine about how much CEOs are paid. They are paid that because they are scarce. In general, they're the best business men in the world. Why is it shocking they're paid so much?

      Simple -- envy. The average person has no concept of what kind of work goes into being a CEO. Most people have the notion that they could do just as good of a job, because all they ever see CEOs doing is giving speeches and making press appearances and so forth. They never realize the actual work that goes into managing a business. From the point of view of those who complain about CEO salaries, being a CEO looks like beer and circuses -- all fun and games, no work. To those people, I say send an e-mail to the CEO of your company (you do work for a company that has an "open door" policy about communicating with management, right?). Ask him or her for a brief overview of what he or she does. The request will probably get shunted to a secretary (yes, most CEOs are that busy), but most likely you'll get an answer that describes at least at a high level what kinds of responsibilities a CEO has, and that should give you a better idea of the amount of work that goes into it.


      What you said is true. Good CEOs are very scarce. Potential CEOs are everywhere. Everybody wants to be one, but few would do a good job of it. And that's why those few get the big bucks.

    2. Re:CEO Salaries by gilroy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      CEOs don't just run companies. They take risks. Big risks. They know that if they do something risky they're going to get replaced.

      Risks? Then why are so many CEOs "forced out" with multi-million-dollar golden parachutes, while the companies they leave endure a death-spiral?
    3. Re:CEO Salaries by coaxial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      * Good CEOs are very scarce.
      * Good CEOs build companies and produce profits.

      Therefore, good CEOs are worth a lot of money.


      There's two problems with this:

      1. Even poor CEOs are paid extremely well.

      As seen in the article Edward E. Whitacre has led SBC for the past 12 years, his results? Below average growth. Now he may have done good things for other companies in the past, but he's simply been mediocere for SBC, yet doesn't receive a mediocere CEO salary.

      When the board actually does wise up and fire a CEO, the exCEO receive multimillion dollar severence packages. And what did they do to earn this? Balance sheets with wonderful red accents.

      2. When a company does well, those in the company should be rewarded. From top to bottom. But this isn't what happens. In 1999 CEO salaries increased 37%, while the average worker's salary increased a measly 2.7%.

      Between 1990 and 2000 CEO pay has increased 571%. By comparison, the US's GDP over the same time period only increased 3.7% anually, or 37%. Since average corporate performance couldn't possibly outstrip the GDP growth by 15 times, something is wrong. Think of it this way. If the minimum wage increased along at the same rate as CEO salaries, a janitor would be making $25.50 an hour, instead of a measly $5.15.

      There are very real economic issues to be considered. I suggest you read up about how The Market actually works. For starters try United for a Fair Economy.

  8. But don't you see? by Skim123 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There's the same happy : unhappy ratio of rich and poor people. Yet I swear, no matter how many times it hasn't happened, if I had a little more cash, life would be a lot better

    Shit, dude, it doesn't matter how much you have, you'll always be wanting a little more. Psychological studies have shown that people's happiness levels is relatively set, and while major events may elevate or depress their overall happiness (such as winning the lottery for happiness or death of a loved one for misery), before too long people are back to their previous happiness levels. So, even if you think you'd be damned happy and things would be great if you won the lottery and became a millionaire, that happiness would be relatively short-lived, I'm afraid. Essentially, you'd find other shit to bitch about.

    --

    I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. Lies, damn lies and the rich america article by sterno · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article:

    Americans in 2000 spent less than they did 10 years earlier on steaks, martinis, cigars, jewelry, watches, furniture, toys and sound equipment. They spent less on entertainment and more on education, housing, transportation and computers.

    Okay, steaks corresponds with the mentioned trend about people eating more fresh vegetables. That would seem to correlate with trying to eat healthier. Martinis? Okay, perhaps people are drinking more malt beverages?

    As for the education, housing, transportation, if you look, housing prices, education prices and transporation prices have all been going up. That has nothing to do with any earnest desire by Americans to do something wholesome with their money. It's indicative of the fact that we are running our of spaces to expand to.

    Computers? 10 years ago was 1992. Computers were hardly ubiquitous then and the top of the line was a 486. Now computers have become a much more essential part of every home and the internet has driven a lot of buying. To suggest that somehow we are doing something good because we buy an Athlon to surf pr0n is a crock.


    Americans spent 10 percent less on food in general (though baby boomers spent 15 percent more on fresh vegetables). Americans spent 14 percent less on clothing, the largest decline in any category, though they did spend 12 percent more on shoes.


    Food in general? Okay, lets get back to that steak. How much does it cost you for the ingredients for that steak vs a salad? Furthermore, the price of food, realtive to the value of a dollar has been decreasing. The reason clothing prices are going down is because of globalization and cheap international production of textiles. That has nothing to do with buying less clothes.

    So, whatever, if you believe America has escaped some trend of history. If you think that this will go on forever, I just have three words for you:

    THE NEW ECONOMY

    Yup, remember that crock. Oh, record employment, growing wealth, with no looking back. The old rules are done. YEAH RIGHT. This country has done well over the years, granted but we've got a lot of bumps in the road to deal with ahead. A massive generation of retirees. The increasing gap between rich and poor. We haven't solved some magical formula folks, we've been blessed by history and it may continue that way for a while, but as any dot com CEO will tell you, all good things must come to an end.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  11. Go to Africa. Learn what poor means. by rufusdufus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We as Americans are vaguely aware that we are better off that most people in the world. I thought I 'got it' before I travelled a bit. I know I could have been the one who posted how hard it is to raise a family in New York.
    No.
    I tell you truly: a homeless person anywhere in the US is far better off than the average African. We are so steeped in wealth, what one person I met called "an embarrassment of riches", we have no perspective.
    We truly do not understand what poor means. Not a clue. The average american roughing it in the great outdoors brings more stuff in his backpack than the average african ever owns.
    No running water. No electricity (ha!). No roof. No car. No bus. No sidewalks or pavement. No shoes. Nothing.
    Disease is rampant; 80% of the population is HIV positive in Malawi. The average age is 15.
    If the world is getting you down, take a trip to Malawi. It will change your perspective.

    1. Re:Go to Africa. Learn what poor means. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Gotta agree with you. Traveling a bit is quite humbling. I've seen poverty that literally made me want to vomit. I don't know what the hell we should do about it though. There's too damn many people in the world. China finally started to do something to control its population, simply because they had no choice. About the best we can hope for is that the developed world, and America in particular, make use of its wealth to discover ways to give everybody food, water, shelter, and power, all for extremely little money. I don't see any other options really. People generally look after themselves and their families first. It's just the way humans are.

    2. Re:Go to Africa. Learn what poor means. by mudrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would agree with you that rich people should get some perspective by going to economically less developed countries in Africa and seeing their way of life.People in the United States would be shocked to learn that the average wage is Mozambique is equal to 5 South African Rands a day (about $.50) and even the very wealthy would not get close to earning $1000 in a month.

      So, wealthy people of the World, go to Mozambique, see how the people live and get some perspective. While you are on this odysee of financial discovery, you can have an amazingly affordable holiday on some of the best, least trafficed, beaches in the world. Remember to spend plenty of dollars while you are there.

      I don't agree with you about "no freedom" and "very poor quality of life". The citizens of many African countries have better personal freedoms than people in Western Countries. South Africans, for instance, have a great level of freedom of freedom of speach and thought. This is true in many African democracies. Many people in Africa, despite not being able to afford a DVD player, let alone a radio, still have a excellent quality of life. It is a simple life, which many would swap for a western lifestyle, but it is also a way of life that many citizens of the first world would swap theirs for.

  12. Re:GDP/capita in Kuwait is 2/3 of US's GDP/capita by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    People will try to say the same about the U.S., but that was the point of the article -- even the poor in the U.S. are not doing too bad, and most of us are somewhere in the middle.

    and the people that "try to tell you that" make their living by creating hysteria. The wealthy Noam Chomskys of the world run around saying it is somehow YOUR fault that those dirt poor Kuwaitis are poor. This nionsense is propigated by professional students and "activists".

  13. Re:USA may be in decline by elefantstn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are horribly, horribly naive. In many parts of the world, the only thing preventing full-scale war from breaking out is the knowledge of certain American intervention. While shitty things happen where American troops are stationed sometimes, it's almost always the lesser of two evils. For example, the American campaign in Afghanistan undoubtedly killed a number of civilians, which is terrible. But it also ended the decade-long civil war and established enough order for massive amounts of aid to be delivered -- which has saved many many times the lives that were unintentionally ended.

    The world is not black and white. We can't just leave and expect some sort of utopia to grow up in its place.

    --
    If it ain't broke, you need more software.
  14. Re:I think it's harder for single people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful


    I've always been a single guy, and when I was your age (about 8 years ago) I lived in a bedroom and shared a kitchen and bath with 3 other people (who also had their own rooms). This is in a small college town in the midwest, btw. I had one of the large rooms and paid $190(USD) a month. I worked for a little over the minimum wage. I lived there for 3 years getting previous debt under control, looking for a better job, and taking some college courses. Once I got a decent paying job (about 28K/year) I upgraded to a nice one bedroom for about 475/month. I've been here for over 5 years, rent has gone up to 525/month, but I now make over 50K/year.

    So, you can get by being single, you just have to make some sacrifices. Granted, I don't have to make many sacrifices anymore, but I haven't forgotten what it was like, and I can appreciate what you're going through.

    Some free advice -- never get into debt. Barring a car, home, or a real emergency, never spend what you don't have. It isn't going to make it any easier to live, but you'll be much happier in the long run. Of course, never buy a new car either -- even when you have the money. Wait until it's a year or two old, get the car for 1/2 price and it should still be under warranty.

    That's all I've got ;)

  15. Rich Dad, Poor Dad by cswiii · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A few weekends ago, a friend recommended Rich Dad, Poor Dad to me. No, it's not an investment book. Rather, it's an interesting look into the ways that those of different economic levels teach their kids what money is, and how to earn money.

    It's pretty good so far. Nothing mind-blowing, but there's certainly some logical thought in there that had never occurred to me.

    I mention the book, though, because he freely admits that your typical "employment" lifestyle that most Americans have isn't enough to make you "rich", and is hardly enough to help you retire comfortably. However, he also realises people have to start out somewhere. You can't invest if you have zero. Thus, fiscal responsibility is entirely necessary, especially in the beginning, and something that most of us (yes, you, Slashdot reader) don't have.

    I know and/or have known way too many people who make way too much more money than me to be living paycheck-to-paycheck like they do. Granted, I make an okay salary, but I've known tonnes of people who've made six-figures USD and can't control their finances. It's asanine, but it's not an anomaly -- US News and World Report recently that some enormous percentage of Americans had saved less than $50,000 for retirement.

    The author of that NYT article was right, to some degree. Americans are fairly rich. We also, however, spend a lot of money on absurd things. The author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad is right, too: Americans don't know where to put their money, spending it on liabilities, not assets, and have a pitifully wrong understanding of it.

  16. Re:USA may be in decline by scabpicker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The bombing of Afghanistan by the U.S. did not end the civil war there, it is still happening. It did seem to drive the Taliban back into Pakistan though. This makes excatly 1 less group fighting for control there, and takes away the external enemy that united the remaining factions. They started back at each other as soon as the Taliban was ousted. Yes, the Taliban had to go, but the situation was not caused by them, they merely took advantage of the instability to found another islamic theocracy.

    Yeah, the world is not black and white. You should have thought about that before you decided the American millitary was playing with the white pieces.

    Where exactly are out forces preventing _any_ wars, pray tell?

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