Legal Issues for Outside Webcams and Others Privacy?

Jesse Ferrell asks: "My neighbors are asking for me to remove my (weather) web cams from my website because they show part of their houses. Is there any legal precedent to a case like this? I can point the cameras upwards towards the sky more (they are weather cams of course) but it will take time and equipment, possibly modifications to my house. Have you ever heard of a similar situation? What should I do? I'll check the local ordinances and see what I come up with."

Comments

Why bring up legal?

[Unknown Poltroon]

Your neighbors asked you to point them somewhere else. They havent taken you to court, they havent threatened to sue. Why wouldn't you? So it will take a little effort on your part. So what. Do you dislike your neighbors that much? We spend so much time on slashdot bitching about stupid laws, but its stuff like this that gets the stupid laws put into place. People arent willing to make what seems like a reasonable concesssion, so next year therel be local law that says you ant leave an unattened camera filming someone elses property that will take years to get rid of, if we can.

It's legal unless there is a local ordinance

[zenyu]

But he might just be asking for a curtesy, maybe he likes walking around naked in his apartment and doesn't want his co-workers looking at the web page obsesively trying to get a good look. Maybe just positioning it differently will appease him. If you live in a co-op with him he might be able to get you to take it down entirely by appealing to the board. Besides curtesy is underrated, if you can make him happy without ruining the camera view why not?

There might also be a technological solution, blur the portions of the images that show windows before sending them out as a web cam.

Re:It's legal unless there is a local ordinance

[Fantanicity]

maybe he likes walking around naked in his apartment

The cams (one and two (the one in question, I suspect)) probably wouldn't show that unless he was up at the windows flashing the whole street.

Re:It's legal unless there is a local ordinance

[cs668]

At first I was going to say you should be nice and just move it. But seeing this image I don't understand what the problem is.

The resolution and lighting makes it impossible to see in his window. Just sounds like he is being a pain in the ass.

Panasonic Unitized Cameras

[renehollan]

IIRC, Panasonic makes unitized pan-tilt-zoom video cameras that allow for blocking out selected parts of an image, like windows of other buildings (and given the degree of zoom available, this is a good thing).

While such cameras are expensive (approx. US$1500), and provide aanalog RS-170 video which would have to be digitized, and not exactly "web" cams, if you point your cam at a fixed point, perhaps you could use software to blur out any of your neighbors' windows or other "sensitive" areas.

I'd talk to a lawyer, find out what you can do (probably a lot, unless you're shooting into their windows, or fenced-in yard), and then suggest reasonable blurring of possibly sensitive portions. IOW, offer to go above and beyond what you have to do, as a gesture of goodwill, and it this isn't good enough, send them a lawyers' letter to stop the harassment.

As a courtesy ...

[zangdesign]

to your neighbors, I would make the atttempt to repoint the cameras. As a previous poster pointed out, they haven't taken you to court, so presumably there is no animosity yet.

Potential solutions:

1) mount the camera on the roof. This should get you better clearance.

2) Cut a silhouette and place in front of the camera. That way you can make people think you live somewhere more exciting (that was NOT intended as a cheap shot at your town).

3) Mount the cameras at your local school. Give the kids something to ooh and aah about, do something good for your community, appease your neighbors, and get that warm fuzzy feeling all in one.

Have a better one.

is chivalry dead?

[digitalmuse]

I would have to suggest that you prove yourself as a mature and rational member of your physical community and move/adjust the camera in a way to appease your neighboors. I would show them that you respect people's personal boundries, and perhaps gain a measure of dignity for the larger community of sky-watchers/geeks/whatevers in that person's eyes.
Don't resort to hiding behind the word of law. Be proactive and keep the peace. you might get a little more respect from them in the future when something gets under your skin.

Webcam viewing others' property

[markwelch]

It probably is illegal (or ought to be) to have a webcam positioned so that the general public can get a view of someone's private property (even the back yard) that is not otherwise available to the general public. Just because I can view my neighbor in the shower if I peek from my attic window, doesn't mean it's reasonable (or legal) to broadcast that image to the world.

The core issue here, regarding the weather webcam, is what is the right thing to do, and I don't really see any doubt: the original post mentions that it is possible, though inconvenient, to reposition the cameras, and actually implies that repositioning the cameras would provide a better picture of the weather. Just do it.

There is another issue with webcams that I think needs to be pointed out: consider that the weirdest people may view your webcam. For example, if you have a webcam that shows the traffic on your street, and the picture includes the sidewalk, a pedophile could use the webcam to profile when the local schoolkids walk to school, and to get a nice look to decide which one to abduct. Yes, it's extremely unlikely, but how would you feel the next day if that happened?

Also, someone wrote:
>> In fact, it's legal in most places to videotape people nude in the shower if you can see them from your property.<<

I didn't see the usual "IANAL" disclaimer, but let me be clear on this: I am a lawyer, and I am quite certain that it WOULD be illegal (in California, at least, and probably in nearly ever U.S. state) to set up a webcam that peers into the neighbor's shower, even through an open window (note my shift from "videotape" to "webcam"). You might be legally able to videotape the neighbor in his shower, for example, to create evidence that your neighbor is indecently exposing himself to your family (one would assume that you'd not need to do this just to support of your request to the neighbor that he install a curtain or blinds). But you could not legally videotape your neighbor in the shower and show it to others for entertainment.

Public places, expectation of privacy.

[stienman]

You are wrangling with something that ought to be discussed with legal counsel. It may be in your best interest to re-aim the camera, and/or use the computer to blur/black/remove/annotate portions of the picture that your neighbors object to. (ie, black out the house and put in small print: "Smelly people" or some such nonsense. Not wise, nor kind, but funny all the same.)

That being said - video recording laws are being changed, but in most states, right now, you can record pretty much anything to video (NOT AUDIO) in any place, public or private with few exceptions.

If want to stand your ground, you might at least try to be courteous and safe. Point out that your camera doesn't see into private yards, and through windows. Point out that everything you can see on camera can be seen by a person from a similar vantage point, and that they have no reasonable expectation of privacy from a person, camera, or any viewing device similarily mounted.

Once you've done that, change the view anyway and very subtly imply that any view that includes them is ruined, or you've seen all of them that you care to see. Or you could be really mean and publish as much info about them on your page as is legally allowed, maybe some extra pictures, notes about their appearance and behavior. That'll get them really riled up.

You might want to think about the flip side, though. Right now some thief could be watching their coming/going and making a schedule of when they are home, when they aren't, how they typically secure their home, etc. It could be some pedophile sitting in front of their computer waiting to see when their kid is home.

You ought to ask yourself, do you value your privacy in public places? Do you like the idea of video cameras everywhere? Perhaps these neighbors are avid readers of Slashdot and they love the YRO section. They may simply be expressing their desire for more public privacy.

-Adam

Cheap Solution: Image Pre-Processing

[scotpurl]

If the camera in question always looks the same direction (no pan & tilt), then you just need to batch process the images before publishing them.

Either mask out the scenery in the foreground, or blur it beyond recognition.

The merge between your background image (the "live" picture) and a foreground image would probably be easiest. That or do a poly-fill on known coordinates from a command line. GNUplot could almost do that.

But, in the interest of being a good neighbor, unplug, or stop publishing the camera pix, until you have a permanent solution.

Don't piss your neighbors off. If your house catches fire or is burgled while you're away, they may pull up deck chairs and watch, rather than telephoning for help.

But why be a bastard about it.

[gaudior]

They asked. It's no big deal. If my hobby infringes on my neighbors sensitivities, then I should modify my behaviour, as a good neighbor.

They aren't asking anything unreasonable.

This is foolish!

[terpia]

What the hell do you mean that it will take equipment and modifications? It's a damn camera! Aim that little son of a bitch UP! Don't be a bastard. If you had that camera pointed at my house and I asked you to move it, you would move it. Or I would break it, and turn into one of those neighbors that makes the neighborhood a much less freindly place. Have some consideration.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's time to grow up and behave like a civilised human living in close proximity to other civilised humans.