First Virtual Piano Competition

bluegreenone writes: "The New York Times has an article on what may be the first 'virtual' piano competition. One of the judges for the contest being held in St. Paul will actually be in Japan. He will evaluate the performances as relayed by Yamaha's Disklavier system. This has some interest from a technical standpoint, and also raises new questions about what a "live" performance is."

Comments

Why would this change the definition of live?

[3.5 stripes]

Has anyone ever questioned whether a "live" broadcast is live? I thought the difference between live and non live was the venue, live is all performed in front of an audience with no retries, non live is studio recorded material with editing/mastering etc inbetween the performance/performances and the final recording.

I'll admit I simplified it a lot, but I don't see how this stands to change the definition of live.

Re:What is 'live'?

[beckett]

You've got 88 keys plus 3 pedals that are hit and released at precise times with a given force. The number of variables is limited and pretty straightforward. A sensor under each key could record the performance accurately, and a regular piano with a bunch of robotic plungers could play it back.

it doesn't sound like you've played a lot of piano. The whole idea of the piano is in it's full name: pianoforte. this means that you can vary the intensity of each note played by varying how hard you strike the key. the piano was leaps and bounds ahead of the harpsicord that only could pluck the string one way. the piano uses a set of hammers to vary the intensity of the sound. where a disclavier might fall short is in recording the nuances of pressure applied: it just might not be exact enough. if you play the the purely electronic Yamaha keyboards you really miss out on the dynamic range of an authentic, stringed, piano. it's not as simple as sequencing in midi. When the piano is played masterfully there is a liason between each note that joins the whole composition together.

Re:What is 'live'?

[iangoldby]

There are a few things that might not be captured, such as the speed at which a damper is replaced on the strings when a note or the pedal is released. I don't know if the system accurately reproduces this. Certainly MIDI wouldn't.

I suspect the main difference between a live performance and a performance from a Disklavier is that a live performer is constantly adjusting his touch to account for the individual characteristics of the piano, whereas IFAIK the Disklavier system does not have this feedback loop.

So it would only sound exactly the same if the piano used to play back the performance was identical in touch and tone to the piano that recorded the performance.

Mind you, I doubt if I or many others would notice the difference.

Re:What is 'live'?

[fruey]

The whole point is nuance. The piano player will actually react to the nuance of the piano he is playing. If he feels the upper octaves are quieter, he will adjust the strength he hits the keys. The harmonics generated by the strings will change based on those that are vibrating, but also by other external factors (a very very small nuance).

In the case of the other piano, elsewhere in the world, there will be subtle differences in the instrument itself. Even if you can (and this is arguable) reproduce 99% of the nuance of the actual key velocity, you're not taking into account the fact that the musician is feeling and reacting to a separate instrument with a key action which must be different, affecting his touch, and with possible harmonic and amplitude differences across the piano keyboard range even given the same key velocity.

But first and foremost this is most certainly NOT live music. It's reproduced mechanically, and that is no different from playing a CD (reproduced optically). Just because it's a real piano you're hearing, it's not the same piano the artist was playing. And he/she's not even there.

Kurt Vonnegut got this right...

[TekkonKinkreet]

...in Player Piano, in 1955 or so. A recording, no matter how faithful, is a recording, it captures a performance, not a performer. The Disklavier is a player piano, a really good one. It makes the hammers hit the strings in (insert meaningless technical quibble here) the same way the pianist's fingers did. But until it captures Glenn Gould's humming, Stevie Wonder's head-bobbing, or Tori Amos' (essentially) fucking the piano stool, I will not be fooled into thinking that I am experiencing a live performance.

(Been playing since I was four, and I prefer Steinways to Yamahas, but that's another matter.)