Slashdot Mirror
Bringing Echelon In From the Cold
An anonymous reader writes: "UPI columnist James C. Bennett says that governments are going to spy no matter what. So he suggests that it would be better to admit that Echelon exists, and formulate some reasonable guidelines on such spying, than to pretend that it doesn't and let governments go about their business without any scrutiny. Interesting suggestion. But who will watch those watchers? And who will watch them? "
Oh, You mean this these?
abbie hoffman fbi files
adolph hitler fbi files
al capone fbi files
albert einstein fbi files
amelia earhart fbi/navy/state dept. files
bugsy siegel fbi files
cesar chavez/united farm workers fbi files
charlie chaplin fbi files
dwight d. eisenhower presidential papers
eleanor roosevelt fbi files
elvis presley fbi files
ernest hemingway fbi files
frank sinatra fbi files
franklin d. roosevelt presidential papers
gerald r. ford presidential papers
harry s. truman presidential papers
huey p. long fbi files
hugh hefner/playboy fbi files
j. edgar hoover fbi files
jackie robinson fbi files
john kennedy-jacqueline fbi/secret service/cia/nsa and other files
john lennon fbi files
john steinbeck fbi files
joseph mccarthy fbi files
joseph p. kennedy fbi files
josephine baker fbi files
leon trotsky fbi files
lucille ball/desi arnaz fbi files
lucky luciano fbi files
mafia monograph fbi files
malcolm x fbi files
marilyn monroe fbi files
martin luther king jr. fbi files
nelson rockefeller fbi files
oleg penkovsky - soviet double agent - cia files
pablo picasso fbi files
paul robeson fbi files
richard nathaniel wright fbi files
robert f. kennedy fbi files
ronald reagan presidential papers
spiro agnew fbi files
susan b. anthony historical documents
thurgood marshall fbi files
w.e.b. dubois fbi files
wallace d. fard/nation of islam fbi files
walt disney fbi files
walter winchell fbi files
watergate fbi files/nixon recordings and transcripts
wright brothers photography
I'm glad they were keeping tabs on people like W.E.B Dubois, Pablo Picasso, and Susan B Anthony. If we allow people to think for themselves and lead other people to think for themselves, the terrorists have already won.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
McCarthy. J. Edgar Hoover. COINTELPRO. The list goes on and on. And you ask why people are crying out for oversight?
Congress tried to get the NSA to disclose more, but failed.
The following is from the EchelonWatch web site. I think the text was written in 2000.
Over the past few months, the United States House of Representatives has been investigating ECHELON and related activities. As part of these investigations, the House Select Committee on Intelligence requested documents from the National Security Agency (NSA) regarding its operating standards for intelligence systems like ECHELON that may intercept communications of Americans. In a surprising move, NSA officials refused to disclose these documents by invoking the attorney-client privilege.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
"Out of curiosity, why does it matter if "they" spy on you"
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable SEARCHES and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Unless the Bill of Rights does not matter, it is illegal for the government to monitor all of its citizens "just in case" they may be breaking the law.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
McSurely v. McClellan
Supreme Court case
Alan and Margaret McSurely were arrested in 1967 for "sedition against the Commonwealth of Kentucky." They were arrested for posessing communist books.
All (yes, all) of their belongings were taken. They were searched. Their reputations were ruined, former relations of the wife with a politically powerful man were revealed and scrutinized. They didn't get their belongings back for *years*.
And this happened in the US in 1967. If you're too ignorant to trust the government access to your private materials, that's fine -- but don't expect me to.
I refer you to:
In Our Defense: The Bill of Rights in Action
Alderman, Ellen
Kennedy, Caroline, authors
Or just look up McSurely v. McClellan, a Supreme Court case.
For instance, Exec. Order No. 12333, 3 C.F.R. 200 (1982), The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, 50 U.S.C., and the executive orders founding the NSA and the post-Nixon limits on what can be done with intercepts of "US Persons" no matter where they are talking.
The relevant portion of the laws state:
A deference to U.S. persons' rights by closely regulating the conduct of electronic surveillance that either targets U.S. persons or may result in the acquisition of information to, from, or about U.S. persons. For example, in order to conduct electronic surveillance against a U.S. person located within the United States, FISA requires the intelligence agency to obtain a court order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. If the United States person is abroad, the Executive Order requires that the Attorney General approve such surveillance. In both instances, generally speaking there must be probable cause that the target is an agent of a foreign power. In addition, the information sought by the surveillance must be foreign intelligence that cannot be obtained by other less intrusive collection techniques. Furthermore, even if a U.S. person is not the target, all foreign intelligence electronic surveillance must be conducted in a manner that minimizes the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of information about unconsenting U.S. persons.
,br> I worked there over a decade ago as a cryptanalyst, and it was deadly serious business if you intercepted a US person, even by accident. Reports were written, and people were debriefed on the circumstance, but not the content. The content and any sources for the error were destroyed. Talking mag erasor then burn bag for the media.
IMHO you are being paranoid beyond reason simply because you are ignorant of what the truth is. I've been in the belly of the leviathan, and its nowhere as malevolent as you make it out to be. People like you work there, and they are all reminded of their primary oath, which is to uphold and defend the Constitution. And even if there were to be some rogues, all it takes is a few honest people to expose them - the agency was gutted from within during hte Nixon crisis by people who knew that we shoul not be operating against US persons that weree not legitimate intelligence targets. Beleive me, its not the cowboy agency that it was under Nixon, when a lot of the abuses took place. Its not even as good as it was under Reagan - they do not have the staff to handle analysis of all intercepts, so excluding things they cannot legally touch is not only the right thing to do, it also promotes better function of the entire process. And these very laws and situations were heavily emphasised to us during indoctrination. It was our duty to uphold these laws, and we took that duty damned seriously.
There may have been some erosion of ethical standards this during the Clinton years with the "loose" ethics flowing down from the CINC, but there are a lot of stiff necked old spooks that would never let this crpa happen to the agency again like it almost did in the agency after Nixon. And before you keep on eating the BS about Reagan being a "fascist", consider that the only reason you have the protections you do now is due to a series of orders he issued because he did not trust government to regulate itself well when it involvedthe fundamental (4th amendment in this instance) rights of Americans.
Read Jim Bamford's "Puzzle Palace" if you want a good idea of how close things came in the early 70's when there was really nobody except the NSA wathcing itself - and how the NSA corrected itself with the changes to law and executive orders that are the basis of the existence of the agency.
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