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Lindows - What do Linux Users Really Think?
Harry asks: "Last week I had a laps in judgement and subscribed to the Lindows Insider program. After playing with Lindows for a few days, I decided that Lindows was not worth my trouble and un-subscribed from the program. When I did so, I mentioned my disappointments and requested that they take a survey on Slashdot to see what Linux users really thought of their product. They stated they did and received 'great results and mostly positive feedback.' After having a chance to play with Lindows, I can not believe this to be true. So, my question is: What do Linux users really think of Lindows and will they support it?"
I'm not aware of any such poll (maybe I missed it) and I don't remember many glowing reviews from our previous stories on Lindows. So maybe it's time to get the answer straight from the horses' mouth. Do you think Lindows is worth it?
Running your whole system as root is a BAD thing! I don't know if this has changed since the first preview-release, but to have no choice but to run as root is a crazy desicion!
Lindows will be/is a security nightmare!
IMHO, the only good thing that can come out of Lindows is if they contribute some of their patches to WINE or Rewind...
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
If Lindows can make money on selling Lindows, its worth it. It doesn't matter what I think. I will probably not touch it.
:-)
If they make money of it, some of those money will get funneled back into the community. If they don't make money of it, well, it'll give the difficult linux crowd some more bad publicity when it comes to 'how difficult we are to make money of' - but that really doesn't bother me..
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
One of the great features about Linux is that it has nothing to do with Windows. I'm not even gonna touch Lindows with a stick!
'great results and mostly positive feedback.'
... I'm sorry, but I just don't see Lindows being successful. Do I even consider Lindows Linux? Not really.
Nice marketing spin
Does any sane Linux user think that a distribution where the user runs with root priviledges is a good idea? No. When I read this I though it was some kind of joke. Just what we need, users hosing their own system because their distributor not only gave them a loaded gun, but put it in their mouth for them.
Let's have a look at their FAQ Section:
The Lindows.com Insider program is designed to be exclusive to the individual that signs up. As an Insider member, we ask that you not distribute copies of the LindowsOS to other individuals and that you abide by the end user license agreement that comes with our software.
Cluestick - If we wanted crappy licensing agreements, we would be running Windows.
There are two types End User License Agreements:
1. A "Family" End-User
This license if for an individual end-user and he/she agrees to use LindowsOS for personal use and is to be used only by members of the End-User's Family.
2. A "Business" End-User
This type of license is for an agreed upon number of simultaneous users or seats(computer systems), but not both.
You can read the EULA (End User License Agreement) in its entirety here.
Cluestick: Once again, if I get stuck with these contstraints, (let's call this, non-free), then why am I using Lindows? Linux is about freedom (speech, not beer), why am I tying myself down like this? This is Caldera-think. If my enterprise runs Linux, I just want to pay $X a year to Suse/Redhat/IBM for support. Sitting there counting boxes to figure out how many licenses you should pay for is a big reason to avoid close source software in the first place.
Lindows.com respects all applicable licensing and is proud to be a strong supporter of the Open Source community by helping to advance several Open Source initiatives. We are financially supporting several open source organizations.
Cluestick: Wine, anything else? You can't just say 'strong supporter of the Open Source Community.' Hell, I'm sitting here drinking a soda, I think of myself as a strong supporter too. Compare this with, let's say Redhat: Off the top of my head. Gnome, Apache, Mozilla, and gcc. That's a strong supporter of the OSS community.
Anyone else disappointed with the Walmart 'win' this company gained? No thanks, my vote is for "this company does not represent Linux or the Linux community".
Look here and the winner is "Apathy" not strong "pro" or strong "hate", just plain, boring apathy.
Get the EULA T-shirt
People are going to get this thing, thinking its finally a version of linux that runs windows apps well. But its not! Its reputation will affect linux too. I wish it never came about. What is wrong with debian? Theres lots of other points I hate about Lindows, its name, the way it charges to download free software, debian does this already but it works better and its free! I also hate the way it runs as root.
I believe this is a Microsoft project actually, to get people going away from linux and back to windows.
I hate it so much, I slam it every chance I get to people who ask me about linux.
I haven't tried Lindows yet, and to be honest, I'm not likely to - it's not aimed at me (nor, I think, at the majority of Slashdot readers). The people it is aimed at are current Windows users who want an option they can switch to with as little hassle as possible, and the ability to continue to run their existing software. And from what I've heard, it does that admirably.
I have a friend who slots very nicely into that category, and he has just installed Lindows on his PC. He loves it. He loves that it took less effort to install even than Windows did. He loves that it still runs the apps he's used to. He loves that it isn't Windows.
And that's the point: This is not aimed at the Linux crowd; it's aimed at the reluctant Windows crowd, with the aim of turning them into the Linux crowd: once they've found their feet with Lindows, they can start trying out genuine Linux software, and hopefully from there they can get into Linux properly.
Don't begrudge it for what it is - some people (even some pretty smart people) need a little hand-holding when it comes to Linux, and Lindows is doing a good job.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
The real question is, "What do Windows users think? Will it switch them?"
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Lindows has always had a big BS factor to it. Absurd claims of Windows compatibility. Silly gimmicks with licensing and fees. Now they've conned WalMart into thinking it's something they can sell to people who'd otherwise use Windows. Which is actually a good thing, since this will blow up in their faces, they'll go out of busines, and we can talk about something else.
If 'Michael's Minutes' plopping into my inbox every other day wasn't annoying enough...
They come out with the meraculous feature of installing software in one click. No, not one click in the installer... one click in your web browser and the RPM of your choice is downloaded and installed automagicly. Does that scare the hell out of anyone else?
Great. Now it will be so much simpler to rootkit the machines on demo at Wal-Mart.
\
symetrix. We are building a religion, a limited edition.
As a longtime user of Linux, "easy-to-use" Unices like NeXTSTEP, OpenStep, Rhapsody and more recently Mac OS X, Mac OS Classic, and (unfortunately) Windows, here's my take. I've not used it, but these are my impressions.
;P
Frankly, I'm not sure what the big deal is. Lindows claims more ease of use than your average GNU/Linux distro and Windows compatibility. Having used a couple truly 'user-friendly' (subjective, yes) Unices, I can safely say the experience KDE and GNOME (to a lesser extent) provides is nice as long as you don't do certain things. When you do these things, the user-friendly-ness and consistency of environment breaks down. Even though Linux is my primary OS, it's something that has bothered me about Linux for a long time. Inconsistency.
So in short, Lindows suffers from many of the same inconsistecnies as any other KDE or GNOME- based distro.
I can't imagine it being as "easy" as Windows. Even if it were on the level with WinDOS, that isn't saying much.
But I'm pragmatic. So I don't hate Lindows for Licensing issues.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
You've got it backwards. How can they "sustain revenue" in a mass market channel like WalMart if they don't already have Win98 compatibility?
I'd suggest MacOS, but even they've been comprimised. Most Macs are sold with 101 keyboards these days. And guess who's the leading app software vendor for the platform?
You need an OS that was discontinued before it had a chance to be influenced by the Redmond Horror. I've got an Apple II I'll let you have real cheap!
Now will I go out and buy a Lindows machine? Probably not, but if they say that they can run Word and Office and Powerpoint and serveral other programs like that then I may recommend it to a friend as an alternative to windows.
Only 'flamers' flame!
You can be as critical as you wish about the Lindows version of linux.
But, at least they are trying very hard to put linux on the desktop. Most other linux distros only pay it lip service (if that).
RedHat has pretty much said it is just not interested. And, their product shows it. Lindows on the other hand is focused upon the desktop and if you want a server OS they are glad to refer you to RedHat or others.
Xandros is another company that is focused upon linux for the desktop. (Actually, Lindows is based upon Xandros but it is not clear just how much of the Xandros distribution will be included in Lindows.)
Xandros, taken from the Corel Linux 3rd distro (not publicly released) at least tries very hard to make networking with windows systems easy. RedHat ignores the problem. Even Mandrake only offers a rather sickly ability to network. Oh sure, they all use Samba. But, Samba is similar to the old DOS based server/redirector crap that is all but impossible for regular people to use.
Xandros offers networking equivilent to Windows Explorer. Just right-click and pick "sharing". Mandrake hides how to accomplish the same.
How will Lindows do it?
Not sure. The version currently being included with some Wal-mart systems (SPX) is a bit of a pre-release. Even so it is better than many versions sold in the millions by Microsoft only a few years ago. And, for many it is easier to install than the Micorosoft crap is today.
The ability to run applications written for the Microsoft systems is important for many users. At least for those who already have such applications but may want to try out linux. And, getting consumers into thinking of alternatives can do wonders. Why don't they just pick up Mandrake or RedHat and grap OpenOffice, etc.? Some will.
And, when Xandros can release their distro a very easy to use distro will also network right along side the Microsoft boxes. Sorry, but Corel Linux 1st was easier to network than any other linux distro since then. And, that is 3-4 years ago.
Linux on the desktop will take off once the distro companies actually focus upon the desktop user instead of the back room. And, that requires that it is easier than Microsoft. Focusing upon servers is not going to do it.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
While I realize that this forum is a great place to spout rhetoric on whether or not the ideology behind Lindows is true in spirit to the Linux community, it does not offer any real insight into the usability of the product.
Many users such as myself would be interested in using this product if people could tell me that Lindows ran my software. If I were to ask my friends who installed Windows XP on their machines if I should upgrade from Win 2k, I don't expect them to tell me "Don't, because Microsoft doesn't contribute to other closed source projects." I expect to hear whether or not it runs the apps and whether or not it runs quickly.
So please, can anybody tell us whether or not Lindows achieves its intended purpose of an alternative operating system that allows you to run Windows and Linux apps? I'll decide the politics of my operating system for myself.
Lindows started off by making claims of compatability with windows that they wound up retracting. I imagine an attorney somewhere telling them that they were asking for trouble. But it doesn't matter now, because the rank-n-file sales staff at Wal-Mart have already been programmed to say Lindows is Windows compatable. Which it's not.
In the long run I fear that consummer rage at being mislead by the hype of Lindows will only underscore the myth that Linux is arcane and difficult to use.
I've been waiting for a "final" version of Lindows. It's not a priority at the moment, so I haven't seen if they've reached that stage yet. When I finally get my own computer, I'd like it to be a Linux system, but something that A) doesn't require me to learn a new GUI, and B) allows me to run all the programs I've got and can read all the files I have. So something like Lindows would be an ideal solution. Otherwise, I'd likely go in for a Linux/Windows dual boot, but with my familiarity with Windows and all the stuff I have for it already, I don't see me using the Linux side of things all that often. I imagine in the average-user demograph (meaning relatively mid-level, not lowest-common-demominator average), there are a lot of others like me, who want to get away from Windows, but still want all the Windows-type functionality they're used to.
Soylens viridis homines es
Now, that is a bunch of stuff I would like done, but realistically if they got 1 and 2 done, they would be WELL ahead in the game.
If you DO want to run that shit, there is a new distribution of a very popular operating system which has been winning more acclaim among diehard geeks: Windows XP.
Holy shit, I see the Stallmanist lynching party approaching me now. Hear me out.
I've been using linux for a pretty long time now, since slackware 2, kernel 1.1.47. I installed it from a few floppies, on a 386DX25 with 8mb of ram (DIP DRAM on the MB... very odd) and a 120mb maxtor ide disk. I had a 1mb trident vga card, too. I ran X, netscape... you get the idea. BTW, fvwm rocks your socks. My computing experience goes back farther than that; for a long time my primary machine was a IBM PC-1 with 448kb ram and the updated roms to support hard disks. You get the idea. I'm pretty 'core about this shit.
Now get ready for the pain; I run windows XP now. This is mostly because I'm a gamer and gamers must run windows. But when Win2k came out I was sold on this whole NT thing. I still use Unix in various forms (right now I'm hyped on gentoo linux) for servers and such; I don't trust NT to be up as long, remote administration requires too much machine... I think they have a way to go before they reach the same level as Unix in serverland. But the XP user experience is unparalleled. You can quote me on that, fanboy.
No, XP is not the perfect OS. But it is an order of magnitude better even than 2k (Growing pains, you know... 2k might be this good now, but it's old) and of course it makes Win9x look like a whore. Did I mention that compatibility mode is really quite good now? Anyway, I can't stand the agony of KDE or Gnome, or more to the point, the combination of X and Qt or GTK. It's slow as fuck.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"