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Russia Poised to Restrict Net Activities

DigitalHammer writes: "The Russian Parliament is planning to place off- and online restrictions to curb pro-Nazi and anti-religious activities. Former Reds are afraid they will be labeled as extremists, while envirnomentalists and human rights groups complain that the proposed restrictions will halt free speech in communist-turned-democratic Russia. Deja vu, I see? News.com has the story."

9 of 351 comments (clear)

  1. Always good to see... by Rombuu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ..us getting all up in arms when other societies don't follow our beliefs.

    --

    DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
    1. Re:Always good to see... by neocon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny, you say that as if merely being `another society' somehow made them immune to basic, universal ideals such as free speech. The fact is that some things are objectively wrong, no matter what society they are part of, and even if they correspond to the beliefs of that society.

    2. Re:Always good to see... by Telastyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Free speech is not a universal ideal. You happened to reply to my other post in this regard, so I'll assume you're zealously opposed to any speech limitations. Many cultures believe that free speech is not a basic universal ideal for everyone. (ex: Formal Japanese/Indian castes, most Islamic states)

      It is not objectively wrong to prevent free speech when the person being "oppressed" can freely leave their oppressors with no consiquence (as exists in Japan, though not in most Islamic states).

      Your reply to my post referenced sept 11 as being something patently evil, and wrong; can't you even consider the fact that you, and everyone that thinks like you made us a target? Willfully imposing upon other cultures in such a "holier than thou" way something that goes against what they consider to be a basic, universal ideal handed down from God even.

      Let others be free to do what they deem to be "best", and maybe they will leave us to be free to live they way we think is "best".

    3. Re:Always good to see... by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My friend. What you just said confirms once again your inability to think outside of the box. The fallacy of your argument is apparent if you look at your own post objectively. You state that slavery was wrong based on the fact that in today's society you do not observe slavery in the same sence, in which it was observed "in the south" at some time in the past. The fallacy of your statement is a very simple matter of point of view. You are looking at slavery from the point of view of this society right now and for some reason you choose to believe that whatever values this society right now has are the *objective* values. Now this is why you are still thinking inside the box. Place yourself outside of that box and start looking at the history of human kind more objectively - namely accept as a given that in fact it was a common believe some time ago in the south that slavery is not only right but it is a God given right. Today there is a believe that slavery is wrong. However you cannot operate from a point of view that right now from inside your culture at this specific time and place you or anyone else around you somehow was able to discover the ultimate truth, the ultimate right. You cannot discover the ultimate right simply because your point of reference is your culture right now. Did you know that most of the time that humans exist slavery existed as well (and exists now.) From statistical point of view having slavery is much more normal state of affairs than not having it at all. Majority of time humans spent in this world there were slaves and there will be slaves so then how is it that you can insist that slavery is wrong for all the times for all the cultures?

      Jews, well I am one too (since my mother is) but for the nazist Germany jews were a disease a plague a cancer of this planet if you will. There are good studies made on the subject of reasons behind such believes. Do you even understand that no matter what you believe right now the nazis were just as sure in their and in fact their obligation to destroy Jews as you believe in your right to free speech?

      There are no ultimate truths or rights and wrongs. Cannibals killed humans and ate them and today many states execute their prisoners. So what? Many believe that it is ultimately wrong to kill and I knew people who would kill anybody for just looking different without hesitation. They also believe in their ultimate rights.

      Think.

  2. Re:Not as bad as it looks? by neocon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Right, but basic to such an approach is the principle that people have some sort of `right not to be offended'. And once such a right is established, society is held hostage to those who are the most sensitive to perceived insults, with any opinion potentially becoming verboten depending on who claims to be offended.

    This isn't a `slippery slope' argument -- once speech can arbitrarily become illegal based on the claim that it is offensive, you are already pretty far down the slope.

  3. Democracy is evil... by toupsie · · Score: 3, Insightful
    We need to maintain a healthy balance between a free society and a peaceful society: truly, that's what democracy is about at its heart.

    Actually, at the heart of the democracy is the tyranny of majority. That is why, as an American, I am happy that I live in a country that has a Representative Republic form of Government. Where constitutional rights trump the momentary whims of the majority in power.

    An no, we do not need to maintain a healthy balance between free speech and a peaceful society. What we need to do is protect the ability to speak freely and punish those that use civil unrest or the threat of it to prevent that free speech -- the tyranny of the majoity which democracy fosters.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  4. Re:There we go by Shalome · · Score: 3, Insightful
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    Moderation totals that amuse me for one of my posts: Flamebait=1, Insightful=2, Funny=2, Overrated=1, Underrated=1
  5. I prefer de facto censorship by jamesmartinluther · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Restricting extreme views and activities is one of the big challenges for any society attempting to mitigate freedom and security. While we may decry it when a government restricts our God-given rights, we also appreciate when a government keeps us safe from fools who want to screw up our way of life.

    Ideally, governments allow greater freedoms while encouraging good citizenship and common decency through education. This is the only mitigation between freedom and security. The United States has generally followed this path, more so than most other countries (although I think that this is being massively undermined by lower standards in grade-school education).

    However, the U.S. is lucky in that its population is generally happy, free, educated, and less vulnerable to extremeties such as fascism, whether American, Russian, German, Islamic, or whatever.

    A potential drawback to greater freedom is that de facto censorship becomes far more common (i.e. censorship based on the personal views of the owners of information distribution). Censorship happens - it just depends on who is doing it. Instead of the government ordering sites to be shut down, ISPs (and traditional media such as newspapers and tv for that matter) would refuse to "do business" with purveyors of extreme views.

    Let the extreme fools talk. Good people will generally refuse to sell them any soap boxes.

    - James

  6. Human rights. by mcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no such thing as "balance" when it comes to freedom of expression.

    Either you have it or you don't.

    "Slippery slope" arguments are not always valid. However, in this case, the slope isn't just slippery; it's vertical.

    Expression is one huge gray area; for any two given pieces of expression which you give me, i can give you a solid chain of "Well, but that's really identical to this, isn't it? Which is really identical to this, isn't it?" and even if no one would say that the endpoints are similar, each two links in that chain woul dbe philosophically identical.

    The only things clearly defined enough to be valid exceptions to free speech are copyright protection, for specific phrasings and expressings of an idea, and slander, for presenting an idea as true when it is not. And note that both of these two things deal only with the dressings of the idea being expressed, and not with the desired expression itself. Laws which suppress "dangerous" speech, on the other hand, repress ideas at the core level, however they are expressed.

    Beyond the two caveats above, you cannot balance, negotiate, make exceptions to, or in any way abrogate free speech rights and have them still be there. This isn't extremism. This is just saying, basic human rights are an all or nothing committment.

    (While i'm on the subject, while this isn't quite relevant to net censorship in russia, i might as well note that most human rights act in exactly the same way-- that they are gray areas so huge that you have to look at them in terms of black and white while legislating. For example, Due process of law. Due process of law is merely a convention that the government, as the group of people with guns, agrees to follow. The people agree "okay, we will let you all have guns instead of taking the law into our own hands if you use this privilidge responsibly." If the government does not treat this convention as sacred, the people's rights evaporate. If you are in a situation where the government is not guaranteed to behave in a manner consistent with its constitutional basis, the freedoms that constitutional basis guarantees are meaningless.)