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Amateur Lightwave Tricks

Posted by timothy on from the weighs-nothing-says-much dept.

HobbySpacer writes: "According to an ARRL article, some Hams are moving to really high frequencies with experiments using lasers & LEDs. The tests include cloudbouncing, moonbouncing, laser radar and an infrared laser on an amateur satellite. See the Lasercom Manual and this paper for intros. Meanwhile, other amateurs are looking for alien lasers pointed our way."

96 comments

  1. Cripes! by morhoj · · Score: 1, Troll
    That had to be the single largest concentration of annoying websites in a single post!

    Music, blinds, awful colors, oh my!

  2. Are they kidding? by godoto · · Score: 0, Troll

    The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum

    What the hell have they been looking at? If, Hubble, the most powerful optical scope can barely make out distant planets, what makes them think they're going to see distant alien figures on those distant planets? Moreover, the alien life is likely to be simple bacteria, something we can barely see here on Earth. Sounds like these guys have just been staring at the "man in the moon" for too long.

    1. Re:Are they kidding? by RTFA+Man · · Score: 1, Interesting

      seti searches for meaningful RF waveforms, the kind that would be transmitted by an extraterrestrial lifeform who is trying to seek us out. What if, instead of transmitting their message in the RF spectrum, the ET transmitted it in the optical spectrum? That is what they'd be looking for, not the outlines of ETs on planets.

    2. Re:Are they kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And are the specs.

    3. Re:Are they kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow you are stupid... I nominate you for the stupidest person on slashdot award!

      Please, remove your head from your rectum before posting... I would expect a regular moron or idiot CEO to be not smart enough to understand this, but a slashdot reader/poster?

      Please, go bang your head on the wall as hard as you can until you are unconcious.. and repeat ...

  3. Yikes by Wrexen · · Score: 2

    Apparently the moonbouncing site is being updated from at least beyond Alpha Centuri, seeing as how its design dates from circa 1996. *cowers under desk from BLINK tag flashbacks*

    1. Re:Yikes by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      Shit dude, I misread that. I thought you were implying they bounced radio signals off of Alpha Centauri. Heh. That'd be seriously cool if they got that to work. Something like that would prove that SETI could recieve a radio signal from another star. (or possibly prove that it can't...) That'd either improve SETI's funding, or cause them to rethink their approach.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Yikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it actually possible to bounce radio signals off of stars?

    3. Re:Yikes by JohnMunsch · · Score: 1

      Um, that would be seriously cool as Alpha Centauri is a little over four light years away so they would have had to start in 1994 to try bouncing a signal off of it...

      --
      Sigs are for people who started using the net _after_ '86.
    4. Re:Yikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and, generally, stars don't reflect light too well...

    5. Re:Yikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well how do you know ? I bet there is a lot of plasma there. Anyway, you certainly will have a high background, I therefore suggest to use a Lock-In technique *g*

  4. Seabass by jzarzosa · · Score: 1

    Instead of lasers, why don't they look for ill-tempered Seabass...

    --
    Domains for only $8.75/year! Transfer your domain for on
    1. Re:Seabass by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 1

      HA! I laughed, until I stopped.
      [I actually enjoyed that. And it may be more scientifically valid, really.]

  5. Hmm... by godoto · · Score: 0, Troll

    Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you take your lasers and shine them on this useless zombie sat and put it out of its misery.

  6. Cats by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Yep, light's great for communicating with cats. That, and hitting low passing clouds... Glad that's cleared up.

    1. Re:Cats by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Yep, light's great for communicating with cats."

      I laser-guided a cat up my mother's leg once. I don't remember if it was the band-aids or the ruined stockings that cost more, heh. That was a boring weekend I spent in my room, though.

      :)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Cats by scott1853 · · Score: 2

      I'm too lazy to go find the link but somebody has a patent on using a laser pointing device to get a cat to move around. Sadly, I am being serious.

    3. Re:Cats by falzer · · Score: 1

      I was bored enough to find the link.

    4. Re:Cats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That patent refers to invisible light.

      So who's going to patent it for your typical red laser pointer?

    5. Re:Cats by rhost89 · · Score: 1

      Look at how far we have come in just a few short years, "herding cats" is not as imposible as we once thought it was :)

      --
      I will bend your mind with my spoon
    6. Re:Cats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Normally, laser beams through air are invisible if they are not scattered by dust, vapor, or whatever.

      Anyway, how the hell does a cat see invisible light? The patent *did* mention making a bright spot on an opaque surface.

  7. Highest usable frequency? by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder what the highest usable EMS frequency is. An advanced alien civilization would probably be using the highest usable frequency rather than a frequency that is easiest (for us) to generate.

    They might be broadcasting in gamma waves or X-rays for all we know.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Highest usable frequency? by T3kno · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Since you insist on creating this advanced alien civilization in our image, you must realize that any advanced alien civilization would therefore be able understand our primitive communications methods and be able to respond using the same said methods. The reason there is no response is because no one is listening.

      --
      (B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
    2. Re:Highest usable frequency? by flewp · · Score: 2

      Huh, interesting. Or, the reason there isn't a response is because radiowaves generated by us haven't left our planet till very recently in a cosmic state of mind and it hasn't reached those who are indeed listening.

      Nah, you're arguement is much, much better.

      --
      WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
    3. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* ....advanced alien civilization would therefore be able understand our primitive communications methods and be able to respond using the same said methods *)

      I meant *intercepting* rather than bi-directional communication.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Zapper · · Score: 0
      for all we know.

      Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups.

      --
      So much to do, so little bandwidth.
      --
      Try Mozilla
    5. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, more likely, they're too far away and won't recieve anything from us for millions of years (assuming the signal's strong enough to be noticed). We wouldn't recieve anything back for another million or billion years if this was the case.
      Or they won't be using our primitive communications methods because they're primitive, and won't be able to recieve anything from us.
      Or they don't want to interfere with our development in any way by contacting us.
      Or they don't exist in the first place (unlikely IMHO, considering the billions of galaxies that exist in the universe, and the age of the universe. It is unlikely that our civilizations would exist at the same time and be close enough to contact each other though.)

    6. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* We wouldn't recieve anything back for another million or billion years if this was the case. *)

      Perhaps they sent it a million years ago, so we would be getting it now. Besides, I am proposing merely detection or interception, and not two-way communications.

      The alien scenario was partly to stimulate thinking about what limits the frequency used to broadcast. Is it the technology to send and receive, or the nature of the wavelength *itself*?

      Our limit may be the sending and receiving technology we have. However, these may be moving targets as we learn more; and technically advanced beings may be using really high frequencies.

      Perhaps even something like gravity waves or quantum twin particles. Who knows whats possible.

      Engage!

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    7. Re:Highest usable frequency? by rjamestaylor · · Score: 1
      The reason there is no response is because no one is listening.

      Bill O'Reilly is faced with this reality every day on his radio program...

      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
    8. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Tablizer · · Score: 2
      [Aliens] might be broadcasting in gamma waves or X-rays for all we know

      I just thought of something if this was the case.

      Every time somebody gets a dental X-ray here, some alien's garage door may be opening up.

      "Dammit, Bleem, you still havn't not fixed it right. It opened by itself again!"

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    9. Re:Highest usable frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you suggest that, e.g. we would be able to answer to the smoke signals of American Natives ?

  8. Alien lasers by DFossmeister · · Score: 2, Funny

    If I see any aliens with lasers pointed at me, I plan to run! I'm not taking any chances.

    DFossMeister

    --
    No Not Again! Its whats for dinner.
  9. Lasers in space? by uncoveror · · Score: 1

    Lasers in space? They don't have to look far. In fact, NASA knows about a giant "laserbeam" on the moon!

    --
    The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
  10. Amateur Lightwave Tricks by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Amateur Lightwave Tricks"

    Shit, I got excited because I thought this was a thread about using Lightwave 3D.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  11. FCC by Jedi+Paramedic · · Score: 1

    If people are using different "bands" of electromagnetic radiation to communicate and/or conduct interstate commerce, does that then bring such communication within the purview of the US Government's regulatory ability?

    I don't know (and don't have time to look it up right now) if the FCC's regulation applies to "radio transmissions" or "electromagnetic transmissions" and if it does, does one need a license to use this "new" medium?

    What about NOAA? If people are hitting clouds, should the National Weather Service get involved?

    *shrug* just a thought...

    --

    That's my purse! I don't know you! -- Bobby Hill
    1. Re:FCC by Quixotic137 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ham radio operators are allowed to use all frequencies above 300 GHz. Light falls into that category.

    2. Re:FCC by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

      As another poster pointed out, hams have full privileges over 300 GHz.

      Most likely, the FCC has declared the optical region to be an unlicensed band, if not explicitly than implicitly.

      Any regulations on optical transmissions fall under other laws (FAA regulations on lasers, possibly disturbing the peace if you light up your neigbor's bedroom with your comm system, etc.)

      In general, use common sense and no one will care.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  12. a comprehensive laser guide by lingqi · · Score: 3, Informative
    Since we are talking about lasers and LEDs etc, so unless everyone reading here knows *that* much about lasers -- i would recommend the following site for everyone:
    Sam's Laser FAQs

    I have spent days pouring over the mass abundance of information there -- and it has convinced me that building a kilowatt CO2 laser to burn though buildings really is something everyone should consider doing for fun.

    --

    My life in the land of the rising sun.

    1. Re:a comprehensive laser guide by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* I have spent days pouring over the mass abundance of information there -- and it has convinced me that building a kilowatt CO2 laser to burn though buildings really is something everyone should consider doing for fun. *)

      Osama Jr. has come of age it seems.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:a comprehensive laser guide by Chalex · · Score: 1

      Another excellent, and more visual, introduction to lasers is Britney's Guide to Semiconductor Physics :)

    3. Re:a comprehensive laser guide by lingqi · · Score: 2

      heh... not that i want to use it for terroist purposes -- but there are some really neat properties about it.

      1) not in the visible spectrum
      2) really f* powerful -- compared with milliwatt laser pointers etc. this *burns*
      3) does not pass though glass (good and bad) -- good - can burn holes through glass; bad - mirrors will cost ya.

      too bad the power requirements means no reasonabbly portable units can be constructed and say, carried in a backpack (ala laser troops in Akira). might be able to mount it on a humvee though.

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

  13. Laser Rangefinding by thebigmacd · · Score: 1

    I have no reference websites to be slashdotted, but on a more serious note NASA did in fact have something to do with a laser on the moon. I forget why, but they bounced a laser off a mirror that was set up on the surface by Apollo astronauts. Come to think of it, it was some experiment to find out how far away the moon is. Although I'm sure that they would have figured that out before they sent the Apollos... Perhaps someone knows more about it?

    1. Re:Laser Rangefinding by captain_craptacular · · Score: 4, Funny

      If they'd only remembered to reset the odometer on the Appolos before they left they'd know for sure!

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
  14. Ronja by cr0sh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What lasercomm discussion would be complete without it?

    From the Ronja homepage:

    Build your own optical data link from common elementary parts - Ronja is an Open-Hardware optical datalink that connects two PC's point-to-point. Ronja's design is licensed under the GNU Public License: you get all the necessary documentation and construction guides free. The construction costs are minimal; it's probably the cheapest wireless system ever. The operation is very
    reliable and immune to interference.

    Take note, people - when the USA Patriot Act enforcers of protocol come, laser may be the only way to comm...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    1. Re:Ronja by Zapper · · Score: 1, Funny

      On the subject of data transmission with light there is this method

      --
      So much to do, so little bandwidth.
      --
      Try Mozilla
  15. Alien waves... by josh+crawley · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    Why would an intelligent alien culture transmit in a low-density solution like light? That's so low bandwidth (in my opinion). If I was an interstellar commuter (alien), I'd transmit information in the form of directed gravity waves. It travels at the speed of light (perhaps faster), and has IMMENSE data storage due to the quark-size waveform. Why mess with LOS light when gravity is Line-Through-Everything?

    Other than that, amateur light proects are cool ;)

    1. Re:Alien waves... by Zapper · · Score: 0
      ...If I was an interstellar commuter (alien), I'd transmit information in the form of directed gravity waves.
      ...Why mess with LOS light when gravity is Line-Through-Everything?

      Then again they may not be a technologically advanced alien society.
      Alien != superior

      --
      So much to do, so little bandwidth.
      --
      Try Mozilla
    2. Re:Alien waves... by Jon+Howard · · Score: 1

      If I was an interstellar commuter (alien), I'd transmit information in the form of directed gravity waves.

      This assumes a few things, but I'll let that slide in lieu of my preferred response: If you had that degree (or better) of control over gravity, why send a message at all? Why not just warp space and make contact in-person?

      Surely you would have the time, you could adjust your local gravitational field to slow the passing of time relative to you.

    3. Re:Alien waves... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* Then again they may not be a technologically advanced alien society. Alien != superior *)

      Well, if they are *inferior*, we reallllly *don't* want to contact them anyhow.

      Even equal is a questionable level. They would probably either try to convert us to some funky religion that bans smiling, or spam the hell out of us:

      "Increase All Four of Your Penises by 300 Percent!"

      (Their demographics targeting is not any better there either.)

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re:Alien waves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not funny.

    5. Re:Alien waves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      re: "You're not funny."

      Who voted you humor critic? Did you do a survey?

    6. Re:Alien waves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would an intelligent alien culture transmit in a low-density solution like light?

      First, I have to disagree with the premise of the question that light is low-density compared to gravity waves. Although the graviton is a spin 2 particle and therefore has 5 spin states as compared to the photon which is spin 1 (giving it 3 spin states) when you're communicating interstellar distances its unlikely you would be encoding information in something as fragile as the spin state of the particle.

      Secondly, the most important reason is the relative strength of EM radiation as compared to gravity waves. To generate a gravity wave which can be detected you have to move around very large masses at very high speeds, like the final moments of neutron star or black hole binaries. Massive events like these generate waves which cause vibrations in the detector (like LIGO) smaller than the radius of an atom. Note that this vibration size is not the wavelength of the gravity wave which is on the order of several kilometers.

      Third, as the original poster pointed out gravity is Line-Through-Everything. Gravity waves cannot be blocked or shielded like electromagnetic waves can be. This is not an advantage. Most of your energy is being radiated not towards your target but in other directions. If you need to pass through intervening material (like dust clouds), you can choose a wavelength of light which is not absorbed by the material.

      In my opinion EM radiation is far superior to gravity for communication purposes.

  16. oops by bilbobuggins · · Score: 4, Funny
    Hams are moving to really high frequencies

    I was like 'what? lunch meat I can't hear?'
    God, it's been a long day...

  17. Fun with long-distance lasers by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.llnl.gov/urp/science/lgs_www/lgs.html

    They're using a laser to create what looks like a star, above most of the atmosphere. Naked-eye visibility! I wonder how much modulation you could put on it for long-distance communication.

  18. Pigs are what?! by spoco2 · · Score: 1

    "Hams are moving to really high frequencies "

    OK... that's just freaky... there are pigs on our airwaves?

    What type of shows are they offering?

    1. Re:Pigs are what?! by Knight2K · · Score: 1

      Piiigggss innnnn Spaaaaaace!

      --
      ======
      In X-Windows the client serves YOU!
  19. Alien Lasers... by loucura! · · Score: 1

    I broke out my telescope to search for some alien lasers, and oh god! MY EYE! IT BURNS IT BURNS!

    --
    Black and grey are both shades of white.
    1. Re:Alien Lasers... by ColaMan · · Score: 2

      That's the sun, hotshot. Try looking for lasers at night.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    2. Re:Alien Lasers... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* That's the sun, hotshot. Try looking for lasers at night. *)

      Dammit! You are ruining my Darwin Award submission candidate. Hush it!

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  20. DANGER - Laser Radiation by hamisht · · Score: 1
    Meanwhile, other amateurs are looking for alien lasers pointed our way

    I hope they remember not to look directly into the beam.

  21. Am I the only one? by krs-one · · Score: 2

    That thought that this article was related to the 3D modeling program?

    -Vic

  22. Amateur? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I almost skipped this news item completely. For some reason I've grown used to ignoring anything starting with the word 'amateur'.

    1. Re:Amateur? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even Amateur Pornography?

  23. Its all in the title.. by Kelerain · · Score: 1

    "Amateur Lightwave Tricks"

    The flashy lights werent so bad. But they were on a black background. And there was a looping soundwave also. I think these people are focusing too much on HOW to communicate, and not WHAT they are communicating..

  24. Green light in Murcheson's Eye (nebula) by Caractacus+Potts · · Score: 2


    If you live in the Northern hemisphere and have at least a 6" Dobsonian reflector telescope, you can check out one of the potential "alien" laser sources by looking at the nebula known as "Murcheson's Eye", also known as D-M073. A pinpoint of green light was once observed in this nebula.

    1. Re:Green light in Murcheson's Eye (nebula) by shogun · · Score: 2

      Someone's been reading a little too much Niven.

    2. Re:Green light in Murcheson's Eye (nebula) by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      and that pinpoint of green light was probably a thermo-nuclear reaction several thousands of miles across or even an explosion that was millions of miles across.

      I highly doubt that a super weak laser beam wound be as visible as a massively powerful output of a STAR.

      please people ,get real. a laserbeam that would be visible from alpha centauri from earth, the laser equipment would be the size of australia and the output optics would be the size of texas.

      little pissant beams that are 10KW to 100KW in power are not noticable over space distances.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Green light in Murcheson's Eye (nebula) by Jill+Bates · · Score: 0

      > I highly doubt that a super weak laser beam wound be as
      > visible as a massively powerful output of a STAR.
      Does a massively powerful output must come from a STAR?

      > a laserbeam that would be visible from alpha centauri from
      > earth, the laser equipment would be the size of australia
      > and the output optics would be the size of texa
      With our current technology, may be. But 20 years ago, we don't have laser that is powered by 2 button cell and teh size of your thumbnail.

      It might be natural, but it could also be artificial.

  25. Re: It must be true... by twoslice · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    My TV set was acting all weird this evening and it was picking up some wierd signals when all of a sudden I saw on my TV set what looked to me like a resume of one Bernard Shifman.

    Go figure...

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
  26. Awww... by John+Pfeiffer · · Score: 1

    Dammit, when you said 'Lightwave' and 'amateur' I thought it was an article about computer animators! :/

    --

    Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
  27. "Amateur satellite" is a funny term by trumpetplayer · · Score: 1

    I've been designing electronics for aerospace for years both at government facilities and at private companies like my present, Surrey Satellite. Yes, in this small company we make entire spacecrafts, from micro and mini satellites (LEO) to big GEOs hopefully soon.

    ..And let me tell you that it is quite funny to hear the term "AMATEUR SATELLITE". Come on, what the hell is this supposed to be? If you put a satellite out in space and have it working for a couple of years then you are not an amateur regardeless of any other consideration.

  28. Jeezus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is incredible. I assume most of these sites havent even entered NTCA yet. What kind of selection do they propose, then? ;)

  29. The definition of the term "Amateur" by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    I once read an article describing the meaning of the word "amateur" in the case of amateur radio.

    In this case, it's "amateur" in the Olympic sense of the word - One who practices an art but is not paid for it. (As opposed to professional, which implies "for pay") - Think of amateur figure skating. Some of the best figure skaters in the world are considered "amateurs" simply because they do not skate for money. (As opposed to professional skaters, such as those in the Ice Capades)

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  30. Did you... by lord_codah · · Score: 2, Funny

    make the quote sign with your fingers when you said "laser" and did you say it aloud like "layyyyserrr"? Just wondering.

  31. Isn't this guy violating some patent somewhere? by Java+Pimp · · Score: 1
    From the article:

    My sister (a four cat owner) suggested purchasing one of those inexpensive laser pointers to keep the cats busy. Sure enough, two of our three felines, Molly and Junior, love chasing the laser beam wherever I happen to point it--typically all over our family room

    I could have sworn I've seen this before:

    http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05443036__

    --
    Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
    Kull: She told me she was 19!
  32. Its an alien laser message if... by Memetic · · Score: 1

    it says "do not look at beam with remaining eyes..."

  33. Re:Slashdot Arseficken! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate Illinois Nazis.