I've been using the latest Motif builds for some time, which have claimed to be Eclipse 2.0. (the GtK version is not happy on Debian). Its an excellent product. I really like it, but the builds I've been using have suffered a nasty file handle leak.
I've written a little java monitor that sits on top of my Gnome menu bar and polls/proc/sys/fs/file-nr. Its a case of quit Eclipse whenever it gets close to the top, say once every half hour with 10,000 file handles available depending on what I'm doing.
You have eclipse running under unstable? I'm running unstable, blackdown j2sdk 1.3.1, and am getting the following error message (lameness filters beware!)
On the console:
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: Couldn't load font "Sans 10" falling back to "Sans 10"
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: Couldn't load font "Sans 10" falling back to "Sans 10"
** ([unknown]:8664): WARNING **: All font failbacks failed!!!!
The error message gives the startup command line and says the "JVM exits with error code=1"
I know its a font problem (*duh*) but which font package am I missing.
Posting anonymously because I don't have my password handy.
I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I still don't see anything on the Linux development horizon that holds a candle to Visual Studio. I still get more good code written faster in VS than in any Linux IDE.
How does one live without Intellisense when writing code? Even Forte only shows class members - when it comes time to define parameters, that's where the good times end. No datatypes - no names - no nothing.
Re:I still don't see Visual Studio for Linux
by
roca
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Eclipse (and IDEA and other Java tools) give you refactorings. You can say "rename this clas to Blah" and all references to the class will automatically be updated too. Ditto for fields and methods. Ditto for moving stuff between classes. Can VS.NET do any of that? VS6 couldn't.
These refactorings alone make it worth using Eclipse or one of the equivalent Java IDEs. Once you have them, you wont want to go back.
Finally GTK Support
by
peterdaly
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
It looks like they have an official GTK (not motif) version available for Linux. If you previously had a horrible experience with Eclipse on Linux, I know I did, it may be worth trying again.
I use IDEA, it will be interesting to see how it compares. The Eclipse UI alone, last time I tried it, made me hate it.
Java UI doesn't have to be slow
by
peterdaly
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I know this is an eclipse thread, so this is slightly offtopic. Being a Java IDE topic, here are my responses to some posts I have seen.
Eclipse is faster than Netbeans because it doesn't use swing.
Hogwash. If you believe jave UI's (including swing) are slow, try giving IDEA a shot. Even if you don't like the IDE itself (many people swear by it), I consider the UI very fast, and much faster than Eclipse 1.0 on Linux, although I heard Eclipse was much faster on Win32.
A 21 day demo of IDEA is available for download. Try it in addition to Eclipse if you are in the market for a new Java IDE.
I don't work for them or anything, but am very satisfied user of their product, and am much more productive for server side things than on Netbeans. It doens't do everything, but it does what it does very well.
How about Perl support?
by
standards
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
But when will it support that most popular of languages, Perl? I hear talk, but I don't see action! Is there a serious effort for Perl? That'd rock, and I'd join 'em immediately!
Best Java IDE I have ever used.
goes way beyond code completion for method names.
Type for then ctrl-space
You get three choices, iterate over an aray,
iterate over an array with temporary varialble
iteraate over a collection.
Choice one an it gueses the array/colleciton to use from available variables and puts the type cast in the loop
eg
Collection list = null;
for (Iterator iter = list.iterator(); iter.hasNext();) { type element = (type) iter.next();
}
Refactoring for
pulling up a method
extracting a method from a codeblock
replacing all occurance of a string with a variable
surround with try/catch
and more
Re:It might be time to try again?
by
gaj
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
"Of course the debuggers are incredible. Being able to walk through code and see what happens to my variables is great. System.out.println is a joke is comparision."
Two points:
sometimes (often) System.(out|err).println is exactly what you need and if you only need one or two, printlns are faster to use than a debugger
when you do need a debugger, jswat is your friend.
"Now I can wrap things in try/catch/finally in.25 seconds, I can build a getter and a setter for a private var in the same amount of time."
I have a macros in vim for the often done edits such as javadoc comments, comment in/out of selected lines, try-catch block, etc. As for finding getter and setter, I've not bothered to create macros because I've never had much problem finding them in a second or two with a simple search, assuming I can't already remember the name because I named it well.
" My "beef" against IDEs was that they robbed me of a chance to learn. I felt like they wrote the code for me. That's no longer true. I good IDE will match your braces, wrap code in try/catch, create shortcuts for phrases, (do all the "physical labor") but it won't take away the real coding."
My beefs with IDEs are that they get in my way, make me learn a whole new interface just to get the same level of functionality (or less), are harder to script, less flexible, often tied to or limited to specific versions of a given language SDK, and are often slow and buggy (assuming they are even available for a particular platform
Every single thing that you mentioned (brace matching, code macros, abbreviations) are either build into vim or easy (
That said, every other developer on my team uses IDEs most or all of the time. If it works for them, I say more power to 'em. They even used to give me shit for using vim and shells, but they got tired of my already having a way to do every single thing they point out as an "advantage" of their IDE.
The only thing I'd like to see (and may work on one of these days, since vim and ctags are open source) is a better ctags implementation. What I have works well (decent auto complete and very nice tag jumping), but isn't as refined as the systems I see in current IDEs. That is a legitimate plus to JBuilder, IDEA and their ilk. For now.
Praise for Eclipse
by
SatanLilHlpr
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I am reading at +3, and I am seeing a rather mixed reaction to eclipse, which surprises me. Perhaps this is because I run Win2k. I have had nothing but pleasant surprises working with code freeze releases of Eclipse over the last 6 weeks. The installer on Win2k was my first surprise, the executable *is* the installer, just unzip and run, the exe configures itself, found my JRE. I was up an running in no time.
The 'workspace' concept takes a little getting used to, but everything they do is just so slick and well thought out. The debugger is pretty sweet, especially in comparison to something like JBuilder.
The perspective system is really cool; you can choose from many pre-defined perspectives, or define your own. A perspective is a collection of on screen views of your project, a view being an editor, a class broswer, a debug window, and output window, and so forth. I defined an 'edit' perspective, which has a giant edit window, a small class browser window, and a quick display/hide button for the filesystem navigator view. I switch between that and the debug perspective often. Very convenient.
SWT makes this Java app a pleasure. Yes, good swing apps are possible, but *damn* they've done a good job with this thing.
In summation, I urge anyone looking at Java IDE's to give Eclispe a look-see.
I don't know where AirLace gets the idea that GCJ can't do runtime introspecting. It's been able to do that for a long time.
GCJ is a full-featured Java implementation, including introspection and a full JVM. The main features missing are in the GUI: The AWT implementation is not yet usable. But since Eclipse mostly uses its own SWT GUI widgets, it probably wouldn't take much to get it working with GCJ.
No support for web applications?
by
slonlow
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Just wondering if Eclipse 2.0 has any support for Java web apps. I've downloaded it and it looks to me like there are noticeable omissions in the wizards. I tried to import an existing web app, complete with WEB-INF, WEB-INF classes etc and am not getting much help from the eclipse environment. And I can't find JSP/HTML/XML highlighting. Am I missing something? I vaguely remember reading something about eclipse 1.x not having the features of some IBM IDE. I was hoping that this would be added in Eclipse 2.0. Are there any plugins?
-- fanny. It's a different word in the united kingdom.
Re:You can't even open a file!
by
bmetz
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I agree, it is pretty lame-o that you can't just do File->Open. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be.
Eclipse's "workspace" (the land where projects and source code and whatever else you're using Eclipse to mess with) is just a directory called "workspace". Just put anything in there you want and then right click on your project and select "Refresh". Whammo, it's there.
It is a little arrogant IMHO -- "why would you do anything but put all your files in an Eclipse project?" -- but you get used to it faster than you'd think. I did:) It also lets them own the turf they're operating with..they can do neat things like auto-jarring and auto-compiling and things you aren't used to in a vi-make-debug cycle but get conveniant really fast.
-- What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
Re:Installation, bugs, first impressions
by
j3110
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Just a few things you said aren't exactly true, however, I made the same mistakes myself a few months ago.
The 54 megabyte version is the SDK comes with all the stuff to write your own eclipse plugin. The 20MB version labeled "Executable Binary" is sufficient for anyone who wants to use eclipse. After I found this and banged my head into the wall for not reading the page, I was happier with Eclipse.
The speed is less in SWT as you would think. Swing really isn't that slow. SWT is faster than swing, but not by the leaps and bounds that Eclipse is faster than NetBeans or jEdit. The deal is Eclipse doesn't come with 30 plugins. NetBeans has more plugins (and loads everyone at startup) than any project on Earth will ever use. From FTP support to J2EE server integration. It's a tremendous pain. jEdit lets you configure the plugins that you want. I love jEdit's XML editing (about par with Emacs). Someone should write in XML editing support for Eclipse. Thats my biggest beef with Eclipse.
I thought SWT was cool and I was going to do my current project in SWT. My mind was changed by the potential of Swing. LNF (look and feel) configuration is awesome! I wrote a little class to allow the look and feel to be configured by system properties (which I always load from a configuration file). So, by changing a few entries in a (uncannily similar to samba.. property = value) configuration file, you can make the program look and feel different. In the end, there will be a configuration program to allow the user to test all the LNF's. I envision that this small amount of effort on my part will let the user choose an interface that is a little more comfortable for them. In the very least, they will have a more asthetically pleasing resource, and that means a lot to end users. (Think about the time you spend customizing and picking themes for your Linux desktop!)
Anyhow, in the end, I heard that the benchmarks showed that there really wasn't as big of a difference in speed as there was made out to be.
Want to simulate SWT in Swing?
Type this in main()
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookAn dFeelClassName());
but it will look like motif and not gtk under linux.
Keep in mind that it really doesn't matter if the controls are drawn by Java or the OS, they still have to be drawn and Java2 1.4 isn't stupid such that it doesn't user the available hardware acceleration routines available from the OS. Theoretically, it doesn't matter who draws them if they are both drawn the same way:).
-- Karma Clown
Re:Here are screenshots
by
roca
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
You can't judge the UI of the app based on a few screenshots. (Eclipse is absolutely not "at heart a text-based system"; there is no command line interface to any part of it.) These screenshots look ugly because Motif is ugly; Eclipse looks far nicer with GTK2.
In Metrowerks, can you select a class in the package view, Copy it, select a different package, and then Paste a copy of the first class into the new package, AND the IDE will automatically update the copy's package declaration so that the new code is correct? Eclipse does that.
In Metrowerks, can you tell the IDE to rename a method and automatically rename all callers (and overriders) of the method?
Can you select a block of code and tell Metrowerks to automically extract it into a new method? Eclipse does that.
Can you autocomplete a clas name and have Metrowerks automatically add an "import" statement for the class if you don't already have one? Eclipse does that.
Can you perform a syntax-aware diff on two Java files that ignores declarations that have only been reordered and not changed? Would Metrowerks be able to highlight the particular tokens that have changed on each changed line?
Not to jump on Metrowerks, I'm sure it's fine. But Eclipse is immensely powerful and the UI is very nice, and your attack on it is based on pure ignorance.
Slashdot Mirror
I've been using the latest Motif builds for some time, which have claimed to be Eclipse 2.0. (the GtK version is not happy on Debian). Its an excellent product. I really like it, but the builds I've been using have suffered a nasty file handle leak.
/proc/sys/fs/file-nr. Its a case of quit Eclipse whenever it gets close to the top, say once every half hour with 10,000 file handles available depending on what I'm doing.
I've written a little java monitor that sits on top of my Gnome menu bar and polls
I still don't see anything on the Linux development horizon that holds a candle to Visual Studio. I still get more good code written faster in VS than in any Linux IDE.
How does one live without Intellisense when writing code? Even Forte only shows class members - when it comes time to define parameters, that's where the good times end. No datatypes - no names - no nothing.
It looks like they have an official GTK (not motif) version available for Linux. If you previously had a horrible experience with Eclipse on Linux, I know I did, it may be worth trying again.
I use IDEA, it will be interesting to see how it compares. The Eclipse UI alone, last time I tried it, made me hate it.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
I know this is an eclipse thread, so this is slightly offtopic. Being a Java IDE topic, here are my responses to some posts I have seen.
Eclipse is faster than Netbeans because it doesn't use swing.
Hogwash. If you believe jave UI's (including swing) are slow, try giving IDEA a shot. Even if you don't like the IDE itself (many people swear by it), I consider the UI very fast, and much faster than Eclipse 1.0 on Linux, although I heard Eclipse was much faster on Win32.
A 21 day demo of IDEA is available for download. Try it in addition to Eclipse if you are in the market for a new Java IDE.
I don't work for them or anything, but am very satisfied user of their product, and am much more productive for server side things than on Netbeans. It doens't do everything, but it does what it does very well.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
But when will it support that most popular of languages, Perl? I hear talk, but I don't see action! Is there a serious effort for Perl? That'd rock, and I'd join 'em immediately!
- pulling up a method
- extracting a method from a codeblock
- replacing all occurance of a string with a variable
- surround with try/catch
and more- sometimes (often) System.(out|err).println is exactly what you need and if you only need one or two, printlns are faster to use than a debugger
- when you do need a debugger, jswat is your friend.
I have a macros in vim for the often done edits such as javadoc comments, comment in/out of selected lines, try-catch block, etc. As for finding getter and setter, I've not bothered to create macros because I've never had much problem finding them in a second or two with a simple search, assuming I can't already remember the name because I named it well. My beefs with IDEs are that they get in my way, make me learn a whole new interface just to get the same level of functionality (or less), are harder to script, less flexible, often tied to or limited to specific versions of a given language SDK, and are often slow and buggy (assuming they are even available for a particular platformEvery single thing that you mentioned (brace matching, code macros, abbreviations) are either build into vim or easy ( That said, every other developer on my team uses IDEs most or all of the time. If it works for them, I say more power to 'em. They even used to give me shit for using vim and shells, but they got tired of my already having a way to do every single thing they point out as an "advantage" of their IDE.
The only thing I'd like to see (and may work on one of these days, since vim and ctags are open source) is a better ctags implementation. What I have works well (decent auto complete and very nice tag jumping), but isn't as refined as the systems I see in current IDEs. That is a legitimate plus to JBuilder, IDEA and their ilk. For now.
I am reading at +3, and I am seeing a rather mixed reaction to eclipse, which surprises me. Perhaps this is because I run Win2k. I have had nothing but pleasant surprises working with code freeze releases of Eclipse over the last 6 weeks. The installer on Win2k was my first surprise, the executable *is* the installer, just unzip and run, the exe configures itself, found my JRE. I was up an running in no time.
The 'workspace' concept takes a little getting used to, but everything they do is just so slick and well thought out. The debugger is pretty sweet, especially in comparison to something like JBuilder.
The perspective system is really cool; you can choose from many pre-defined perspectives, or define your own. A perspective is a collection of on screen views of your project, a view being an editor, a class broswer, a debug window, and output window, and so forth. I defined an 'edit' perspective, which has a giant edit window, a small class browser window, and a quick display/hide button for the filesystem navigator view. I switch between that and the debug perspective often. Very convenient.
SWT makes this Java app a pleasure. Yes, good swing apps are possible, but *damn* they've done a good job with this thing.
In summation, I urge anyone looking at Java IDE's to give Eclispe a look-see.
I don't know where AirLace gets the idea that GCJ can't do runtime introspecting. It's been able to do that for a long time.
GCJ is a full-featured Java implementation, including introspection and a full JVM. The main features missing are in the GUI: The AWT implementation is not yet usable. But since Eclipse mostly uses its own SWT GUI widgets, it probably wouldn't take much to get it working with GCJ.
Just wondering if Eclipse 2.0 has any support for Java web apps. I've downloaded it and it looks to me like there are noticeable omissions in the wizards. I tried to import an existing web app, complete with WEB-INF, WEB-INF classes etc and am not getting much help from the eclipse environment. And I can't find JSP/HTML/XML highlighting. Am I missing something? I vaguely remember reading something about eclipse 1.x not having the features of some IBM IDE. I was hoping that this would be added in Eclipse 2.0. Are there any plugins?
fanny. It's a different word in the united kingdom.
I agree, it is pretty lame-o that you can't just do File->Open. But it's not as bad as you make it out to be.
:) It also lets them own the turf they're operating with..they can do neat things like auto-jarring and auto-compiling and things you aren't used to in a vi-make-debug cycle but get conveniant really fast.
Eclipse's "workspace" (the land where projects and source code and whatever else you're using Eclipse to mess with) is just a directory called "workspace". Just put anything in there you want and then right click on your project and select "Refresh". Whammo, it's there.
It is a little arrogant IMHO -- "why would you do anything but put all your files in an Eclipse project?" -- but you get used to it faster than you'd think. I did
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
Just a few things you said aren't exactly true, however, I made the same mistakes myself a few months ago.
.. property = value) configuration file, you can make the program look and feel different. In the end, there will be a configuration program to allow the user to test all the LNF's. I envision that this small amount of effort on my part will let the user choose an interface that is a little more comfortable for them. In the very least, they will have a more asthetically pleasing resource, and that means a lot to end users. (Think about the time you spend customizing and picking themes for your Linux desktop!)
n dFeelClassName());
:).
The 54 megabyte version is the SDK comes with all the stuff to write your own eclipse plugin. The 20MB version labeled "Executable Binary" is sufficient for anyone who wants to use eclipse. After I found this and banged my head into the wall for not reading the page, I was happier with Eclipse.
The speed is less in SWT as you would think. Swing really isn't that slow. SWT is faster than swing, but not by the leaps and bounds that Eclipse is faster than NetBeans or jEdit. The deal is Eclipse doesn't come with 30 plugins. NetBeans has more plugins (and loads everyone at startup) than any project on Earth will ever use. From FTP support to J2EE server integration. It's a tremendous pain. jEdit lets you configure the plugins that you want. I love jEdit's XML editing (about par with Emacs). Someone should write in XML editing support for Eclipse. Thats my biggest beef with Eclipse.
I thought SWT was cool and I was going to do my current project in SWT. My mind was changed by the potential of Swing. LNF (look and feel) configuration is awesome! I wrote a little class to allow the look and feel to be configured by system properties (which I always load from a configuration file). So, by changing a few entries in a (uncannily similar to samba
Anyhow, in the end, I heard that the benchmarks showed that there really wasn't as big of a difference in speed as there was made out to be.
Want to simulate SWT in Swing?
Type this in main()
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookA
but it will look like motif and not gtk under linux.
Good links!!!
javootoo.com links to just about every LNF.
a screenshot on javootoo of SkinLF with aquathemepack my favorite!
audiolaf may allow blind users to use your current app without a rewrite!
Some conversation search for SWT to see I'm not the only crackpot that thinks SWT isn't that much faster (anymore).
Keep in mind that it really doesn't matter if the controls are drawn by Java or the OS, they still have to be drawn and Java2 1.4 isn't stupid such that it doesn't user the available hardware acceleration routines available from the OS. Theoretically, it doesn't matter who draws them if they are both drawn the same way
Karma Clown
You can't judge the UI of the app based on a few screenshots. (Eclipse is absolutely not "at heart a text-based system"; there is no command line interface to any part of it.) These screenshots look ugly because Motif is ugly; Eclipse looks far nicer with GTK2.
In Metrowerks, can you select a class in the package view, Copy it, select a different package, and then Paste a copy of the first class into the new package, AND the IDE will automatically update the copy's package declaration so that the new code is correct? Eclipse does that.
In Metrowerks, can you tell the IDE to rename a method and automatically rename all callers (and overriders) of the method?
Can you select a block of code and tell Metrowerks to automically extract it into a new method? Eclipse does that.
Can you autocomplete a clas name and have Metrowerks automatically add an "import" statement for the class if you don't already have one? Eclipse does that.
Can you perform a syntax-aware diff on two Java files that ignores declarations that have only been reordered and not changed? Would Metrowerks be able to highlight the particular tokens that have changed on each changed line?
Not to jump on Metrowerks, I'm sure it's fine. But Eclipse is immensely powerful and the UI is very nice, and your attack on it is based on pure ignorance.