Slashdot Mirror
Continuing an IT Career Without a Degree?
skaffen42 asks: "Recently there have been a lot of employment related "ask slashdot" posts. There have been questions about hot technologies, the international job market, certification, college and even landing a regular job! I find myself in a situation that have not been covered these posts. I dropped out of college after a year and went to work as a programmer. Now, ten years later, I am a senior systems engineer at a medium sized software company. I have challenging work, a decent salary and good prospects for advancement. But we all know that in this economy even a good job like this can disappear without warning. Unfortunately I don't have a degree. Which brings me to my question: a couple of years ago anybody could get a job if they could spell "C" and someone like me with nearly a decade of experience could usually pick and choose between job opportunities. Those days are (unfortunately) long gone. What I want to know is how much my lack of a degree will count against me in the present job market? And what can I do to make my lack of a degree less of a liability? What can I do so that I can also have these kind of problems?"
1) Get a degree (obvious). Night school or whatever.
2) Never leave your current job (also obvious, but not really under your control)
3) Network. A lot. Without a degree, in this job market, your only chances for landing another job are to a) already know the person, have an 'in', or b) impress the hell out of the interviewer. b) is possible in smaller companies, but if the interview's being conducted by HR, you can just forget it. So that leaves a); gets lots of people who know you, and are willing to hire you if you get canned.
I didn't even finish collage in the UK (one level before degree).
.contingancy.plan.
I've stated to get a degree in other areas (chemistry and mathematics) at night school,
[doing a degree after programming for such a long time seems so boring].
Here's my
1:/ Get to a decent position with very transferable skills, (I'm looking in the design consultancy area).
2:/ Get some level of 'fame' from an open-source project ( I'm currently writing an X-platform Access database driver for open office). This give's you a CV for life
3:/ Invest well while I can, pay off the mortgage quickly, get some savings, so that if the shit hits the fan you can absorbed the possible pay cut.
My main worry is that I can't even read my own handwriting!!!!.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
What I want to know is how much my lack of a degree will count against me in the present job market?
As somebody who has the same problem, my advice is to focus your job-search efforts on smaller companies. Big ones (hospitals, banks, etc) tend to have strict human resource policies that require all salaried staff to hold a college degree. Even when I looked briefly during the dot-com craze, I was offered a couple of part-time positions at big companies (was looking to augment my full-time job) - right up until they tried to run my paperwork through their HR department.
Small companies tend to focus more on what you've produced, and don't mind your lack of degree as much. They use it as a form of rationalization for why you should be paid less, but at least you still get a job.
Get active in your local users' groups, too. If your peers in the same programming field see you as a helpful authority, then they'll be more inclined to recommend you to their bosses.
What's your damage, Heather?
In the present market, and definitely in my region, your situation is a very dangerous one. Presently, the few companies that are hiring in the region are taking full advantage of the market downturn and its resulting glut of skilled professionals. These few and far between companies are demanding degrees, usually advanced degrees and offering pathetic salaries in return.
Here's one: Major insurance company seeks mid-level programmer. Requires Master's degree in Computer Science or related field and minimum 10 years experience developing in C/C++ and Java. $65,000US + Benefits.
MCSE's beware!!!!
I just got a job last monday after four long months of searching. Same situation as last time, my employer had me over a barrel, but he chose not to screw me. I actually got a decent salary, and the job was based on experience & certifications. What got me in the door? Sheer determination. 2 years of it. I interviewed with this company before, and kept my eye on it. I've wanted to work here for quite some time, and i plan to stay for a long time. But i do plan to have one thing before i leave:
At least an associates degree.
I have a long way to go. at least 3 years worth of work. The luck i encountered in getting this job was quite amazing. I could have been looking for ages more and never found a job. Sysadmins are a dime a dozen, and, unfortunately, there are a lot of talentless hacks out there taking the jobs from the more qualified and skilled, based only on the fact that they'll work for $15,000 less.
What hurt me the most in the job search is some of these talentless hacks (I knew some of them, so im not just making this up) had degrees.. but absolutely no skill. IMHO, you need all the qualifications to be [easily] successful in todays job market - Certifications, Formal Education, and Experience. Not to say you can't get far just by trying reaaaaly hard...
Keep in mind all you unemployed people.. once you find a job, its back to 12 hour days, weekend work, and after-hours studying!
(Whats up with that anyway? Why is it in the computer industry people expect the standard work day to be 10-12 hours?)
- Small companies usually have smaller teams. Larger companies usually have larger teams.
- In small teams, each team member has a broad role, but certain skills. There is a need for an exact match of personality and skills.
- In large teams, each team member has specific tasks. The team works collectively, and there's really nothing specific a company will really need.
So you see, in a large team, they're just looking for general ability. Someone with a degree will probably be reasonably intelligent, at and least know something. If you get a big enough pool of people, all of them filtered by degree, you will probably be able to finish most projects.In a small team, the company needs self-starters. The skills are special, and indeed a small team cannot afford to filter by something as generic as a degree: they're looking for specific skills.
Also, people in small teams work harder, but generally have more fullfilling tasks. Would you rather spend 10 hard-core hours writing a variety of tasks or spend 4 hours a day doing the same thing every day?
Whether you have a degree or not, I'd go for the small team. And a good team leader is not dumb enough to look at a degree. A department manager is too busy to care about specific skills. As a final note, in a small company, you'll have a good list of accomplishments to show another small team. A big company will respect that you worked for other big companies. Choose now, because it's hard to change cultures. I suggest you go for a small company. You have a better chance of landing a job, and the jobs are better.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
This cycle was turned on its head during the past 100 years. Through unions, blue collar wages have gone up, and through scholarships, more people enter the white collar job market. Now, during the past few decades, the Internet has allowed people to self-educate. People who are self-educated are generally more motivated, more confident, and less ignorant. Although this change is slow, and with the economic backlash, many companies have reverted to the old way, credentialism will slowly die. High school kids cannot read their own deplomas, community college students beat Harvard students on game shows.
You're just bitter because you're dupped into the old wrong ways of thinking. Well, what do you call a college drop out in ten years? Boss.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
Why work for somebody else if you don't have to? If you have the skills, cut out the middleman. Maybe find some of your brightest friends/colleagues and pursue the entrepreneurial dream. Or maybe just look around at people's needs and start a small, friendly, ethical business to meet them. There's an old saying that goes something like "help people and the money will follow." And you'll never have to sit through another interview either. (-:
--
Q.) What do you call a college dropout in 5 years?
A.) Boss