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Mac Hebrew Soap Opera Continues
Dark Nexus writes "The Register has a response (actually FROM Microsoft this time) in the continuing soap opera surrounding support for Hebrew (and other right to left languages) in Microsoft products for the Mac."
Microsoft's obvious anti-Semitism, demonstrated clearly by their refusal to support Hebrew in Mac Office products, belies an obvious similarity to the Nazi party.
In the interest of fairness, however, Office:Mac doesn't support Arabic, either.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Otherwise, Microsoft would have to cater to other languages with smaller populations as well. Logically, if Apple doesn't provide support, adding support in the MS product doesn't make sense, either.
I'm betting that there's a larger clientele than Hebrew out there. It's an artificial language, and is growing pretty fast, based on some stats (yes, yes, I know--lies, damned lies, and statistics).
Klingon. It's not widespread as Esperanto, but much hotter.
I bet the Cut/Copy/Paste commands in Klingonnase would be more proactive...like...
SLASH/CLONE/SMASH
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
If MacOS doesn't support Hebrew, why are you blaming Microsoft? I'm definatly not pro-microsoft, but there comes a point where you need to stop blaming everything on them for the sake of blaming everything on them. If Apple wanted Word to have Hebrew support, then they'd put it in their OS instead of whining that Microsoft doesn't go aout of its way to include it in office.
I'm not a Microsoft fan. Far from it. I resent how a country is linking business to political concerns. If I were Microsoft, I would drop Isreal entirely. It is too costly now to do business with them if they are going to try to strong-arm Microsoft with politics.
Why are people assuming that to add Hebrew to the Macintosh version of Office is not going to cost Microsoft money? Because some writer said so? Is it because there are a few engineers who want to add it themselves? That would require that Microsoft give them the code for Office (presumably). Why would Microsoft do that?
To support Hebrew in Macintosh Office may cost Microsoft money, and they may have decided that it would cost them too much money to be worth it. Let's not try to see shadows everywhere without evidence. They may not be abusing their monopoly power at all in Isreal -- we simply aren't privy to all of the facts.
Instead of whining, perhaps Isreal should take a cue from Peru and move to Linux? That way they can add whatever they want because they already have the source code.
I see this a lot; everyone, stop bitching about Microsoft and do something about it. Move to Linux. Alter the open-source code yourself. By now, it should be entirely obvious that complaining to Microsoft is like throwing stones at Hoover Dam; they don't care, and why should they?
You're nothing to them.
The point is, there is no way Microsoft wouldn't include the support if it was profitable , almost by definition.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Intel has a big investment in Israel. Intel and Microsoft are in bed together.
:-)
MS and Intel would rather have the Israelimarket to themselves.
They probably will.
--
I love conspiracies
If Apple wanted Word to have Hebrew support, then they'd put it in their OS instead of whining that Microsoft doesn't go aout of its way to include it in office.
According to rumor, Hebrew support will be included in Jaguar, the next major version of OS X. Support for scripts other than basic left-to-right was pretty much absent from 10.0 and 10.1, making Hebrew or Arabic localization impossible. With Jaguar, we expect to get expanded support for right-to-left scripts and input methods, opening up Hebrew, Arabic, and Arabic-like languages.
My point has been proven. Because microsoft didn't put in extra support for Hebrew, Apple has gotten up and fixed the problem. Now Isrealites will be able to use macs.
Minor off-topic rant here:
It is incorrect to refer to Israelis as Israelites.
Israelite refers to a person of a certian religion/ethnic group in the bible and biblical Middle East. Israeli refers to a citizen of modern Israel and does not always imply Jewish though most of the time it does.
</rant>
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
I apoligize then. I wanted to say "People to live in isreal" and that's what came to mind.
Because microsoft didn't put in extra support for Hebrew, Apple has gotten up and fixed the problem.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc. It's not correct to say that Apple is finishing Hebrew support because Microsoft didn't do it themselves. Apple's been doing support for Hebrew and other non-Roman languages since the WorldScript days in '91 or so. It's just taking a little time to add it to OS X.
I don't like Microsoft, but I can sort of see their point about the economics. After all, I would think that they'd have a hard time justifying adding Hebrew support but not Arabic. In the same way that they would face problems adding Arabic but not Hebrew.
There are a lot of zealots that tend to look for the slightest excuse to accuse others of raging anti-semitism or pro-semitism [?]. Supporting one but not the other of these languages would provide that excuse.
In the current global political climate, being seen to be fair sometimes means that both sides have to go without.
"Can anyone explain why IE:mac and Outlook Express:mac support Zulu and Portugeuse but not Russian or Hebrew?"
Or incredibly, Arabic and Korean too.
300 million people speak Portuguese
200 million people speak Arabic
65 million speak Korean
8 million speak Zulu
Only 3 million speak Hebrew, and my guess is most also speak English. As for the Russians, most who are wealthy enough to afford a computer speak/read English or another more common language. So I think it is simple economics. Sure Israel will pay to add Hebrew support, but will they pay for the ongoing costs in supporting the language for years to come?
So all and all this is NOT a case of unfair competition (which I would prefer it to be, cause I don't like the beast that is Microsoft), nor is it a case of Anti-Semetism (which I am sure people are lead to belive it might be), it is a case of economics, plain and simple. Selling 2000 copies of some software program doesn't outway the issue of ongoing support over years and years. I am sure if Israel would agree to pay for the support forever then Microsoft/Apple would relent and take them up on the offer.
Aaron,
;-)
I'm not sure whether I should laugh, or cry.
Probably both...
-Ster
I'm glad to see that there's Arabic support coming in 10.2. One question though: does anyone know if IE properly displays Arabic encoded pages when run under 10.2? Also, anyone have an idea about mail apps that properly display, and allow Arabic input? I know that Mozilla Mail can handle it to a certain extent, but I'd prefer to stick with mail app.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Word will still allow Arabic input and display Arabic documents correctly, but just will not be localized? If that's the only problem it's not a huge one.
Interestingly enough, in the last update of Messenger the Arabic names in my contact list now display correctly, and I can even read Arabic messages properly, provided that the Arabic fonts are installed.
Just for clarification, Apple supported Hebrew/Arabic long before Microsoft touched it, and did it better in my opinion. One of the things I like about the Arabic support in earlier versions of MacOS is that you could map the keys to their English equivalents, something Windows still won't let you do.
The register has posted another article on this saga. Here we read what some readers have said. One points out the fact that both the present and future cash flows must be calculated when looking at whether such a venture is possible. A few suggest that those complaining should just buy windows or get linux instead. I was rather shocked to see one mention that MS Office doesn't support Unicode! If this is true, then this is in no way Apple's fault. Nice try MS. My favorite was the mention of Koffice supporting it. If the open source community can do it, why can't you MS, or are you too busy making claims that open source software compromises security?
As usual with all comments, there are some good ones, and there are some bad ones.
You see? It's like I've always said. You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word.
Yes, I was as quick as you guys to jump on microsoft about this... but then I thought about it a little bit. Here's a better plan:
1) Wait until RTL languages are supported natively in Mac OS X (MWNY).
2) THEN Email MBU @ microsoft and complain about lack of support.
Honestly, how can you complain that microsoft doesn't support languages that apple hasn't yet included in the OS? [OS X, not 9].
-braxton
yes, ALL of the arab musklims are bent on killing ALL of the isreili jews. yes, you have a good picture of reality right there buddy...
Microsoft has lost a case in civil court. This is not the same thing as being convicted. The term "conviction" only applies to criminal cases. The burden of proof is dramatically less in a civil case.
Competition is an essential tenet of capitalism. Hence microsoft is not an example of capitalism.
I am afraid you are mistaken (Your posting as an Anonymous Coward demonstrates that you already know that, of course) - capitalism is defined by individual rights for each to compete as they see fit. Pure capitalism is based on the idea of "laissez-faire," which is an extremely stark contrast to the actions the federal and state governments have been taking against Microsoft.
I have no love for Microsoft, but it is folly to say that they are somehow not capitalistic.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Wait... Who is "the entire industry" here? Isn't the point that this small group of people want Microsoft to include Hebrew support in Office for Mac? What does that have to do with industry? Microsoft creates a product and you either buy it or you don't. If they felt like it was profitable to add this feature, they would. Otherwise, they won't. Pretty simple actually.
Vote with your pocketbook - don't buy MS stuff if it doesn't do something you think is valuable. Or write your own word processor for Mac with Hebrew support and give it away, or try to sell it and put your money where your mouth is about "profitability." In the meantime, Microsoft is going to continue fulfilling its purpose, which is to generate profit for its shareholders. I don't see where any other interests would come into their decisions.
And goodwill? What is that worth? A bunch of people want Microsoft to do something for them for free? And they threaten legal action otherwise, while talking about "goodwill" on the side?
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
I don't get my nose out of joint over typos, etc., however I do compose my posts using a word processor (Either Nisus, or Word X). I find that in doing so that most of my post are free of obvious errors. I guess that I'm being a bit too particular in my posts, but it's really not that much extra effort.
No rant intended, just food for thought...
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian