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Rental Car Companies Watching By Satellite, Again
tlcruiser writes: "The Arizona Daily Star reports that Budget Rent-A-Car companies in Arizona have used satellite tracking systems to track customers' use without notifying customers. They have used the tracking system to issue fines to their customers. Several customers are suing Budget for the invasion of privacy." When ACME Rent-a-Car did this in Connecticut, it was found improper by that state's Department of Consumer Protection. This time, the monitoring is not only of speed, but also of whether renters are staying within contractually allowed driving territories.
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...for protecting the property that they own.
I suppose one also must sue the cable companies, should they detect that you've split your cable feed so that you can share it with twenty of your neighbours; the scooter rental company at the beach, for putting a speed limiter on the bike; and the local theatre, for not letting you bring in your video camera.
Yes, how terrible it is that the owner of a car might wish to ensure that it's not being used illegally.
How's this for an idea: you wanna break the speed limits or travel tens of thousands of kilometers, you buy your own car, and quit using someone else's car.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
In my experience as a hiker, it takes very little to prevent a GPS receiver from obtaining a good lock. Now, I suppose these companies *could* literally track the cars by satellite, ala LoJack, but far more likely they just have a GPS receiver in the vehicle together with a transmitter that "calls home" every few minutes to report a position.
So, for the EE geeks out there, what would it take to block (or render unintelligible) either signal, the GPS in or the position reporting out? Would this take an active device, or would some sort of hack as simple as wrapping the antenna in grounded metal foil work?
Just a thought. I don't suppose this would actually work, the corporate scum probably have a clause in the contract that "if your car doesn't report home at least once per hour, we automatically charge you the maximum of every fine we can possibly think of."
As usual seems many people did not read the article. The lawsuit is NOT about tracking the individuals in their vehicles (though the article does play that aspect up). The lawsuit is about wording in the contract. Specifically that the renters thought it was $1/mile in the "out of bounds" area and Budget charged them $1/mile on their whole trip. Having not actually seen the contract, I cannot comment on whose right, but this leads to the point.
Companies make rules, if you don't like the rules, then don't buy from them. If you are willing to accept the rules, then you must also be willing to accept the methods used to enforce those rules. Otherwise the rule is pointless.
Now, many people may get upset becuase they previously took advantage of the fact that the company couldn't enforce the rule accurately. But those people have no right to complain. They got lucky and their luck has run out.
I also find it odd that people think that they are allow privacy in a rented vehicle. It's their vehicle, they can do what they want. It is not your vehicle. In the same way that if I was to loan my car to a friend, it is still my vehicle, and if I want to monitor what my friend does with the car, I can. And yes, I would expect my friend to pay for any damages he inflicts on the vehicle as well. Again, if you don't like it, don't rent it.
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
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I'm no expert, but it seems that one of two things will happen:
1. As companies like ACME and budget start to use GPS to track their car's location/speed, there will be a small but inconsequential protest from consumers. Following the initial flurry of objections, other companies will see this as a potential source of revenue and will do it as well. Soon the practice of tracking customer whereabouts will become standard and given no alternative in the market, customers will just have to accept that whenever they rent a car, the company (and others, such as law enforcement or whomever) will know where the car is at all times.
2. As companies like ACME and budget start to use GPS to track their car's location, there will be an overwhelming outpouring of disgust and fury from the consumer, resulting in organized boycotts against the offending companies. Other companies, seeing that the public is outraged by the privacy invasion, will not track their customers for fear of losing business. The practice of tracking customer's whereabouts will not gain traction, and people will be free to drive cross-country to cheat on their spouses without fear of anyone finding out.
The question: Which scenario do you think is more likely, given what you know about modern-day America? Keep in mind that as we speak, an American citizen is being held under arrest indefinately by the government without charges being filed. Everyone knows it, but there is no rioting in the street.
I say if you wanna "get away from it all" in the near future, better walk.
W
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This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
1. "But the rental company *OWNS* the car and wants to make sure it is not misused!"
Sure they own the car, but the importance of having personal privacy to the level where you are sure you are not being tracked/monitored wherever you drive outweighs the gains afforded by satellite tracking, even if the tracking is mentioned in an obscure location in the agreement. Keep in mind that car rental firms were somehow able to not go belly-up before they were able to track cars by satellite. It's not like the inability to use this technology will hamper their business.
Chances are that the judge and jury all drive cars and understand the balance of rights and values that hang in the balance here. The right to not having your every move monitored is more important than the rental company's right to protect its property. This was proven the last time such a court case came up -- the driver won the case and got the charges revoked.
2. "But the owner signed the contract for the car that said tracking was taking place! It's a CONTRACT!!"
This is not some clickthru license that enables the software owner to keep track of your IP address. Juries don't understand what that means. The auto rental company did not properly inform the driver of what they were doing and that was wrong. Even the your grandmother will understand this.
What I am trying to say is that this is an issue that even technophobes understand. The driver will win every time unless it was clearly explained that tracking was taking place.
So...would that stop you from speeding?:)
0x or or snor perron?!
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Only the very wealthy and self-insured will be able to drive cars without GPS logging and remotely storing your position, velocity, and the time. Rates will be adjusted for forays into "unsafe" neighborhoods, parking outside of bars, etc.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
A simple solution for any privacy problems like this is implementing a system of two rates. You don't feel like having a rental car company looking over your shoulder, fine, pay a premium! Don't mind them looking over your shoulder, great, get a discount!
I suppose that due to our rather cheap nature everyone would opt for the latter choice thus making the system of two rates obsolete at introduction but at least you'd have a choice.
My oldest buddy from college is a manager at Enterprise. Now this is the guy who was always the designated driver, rarely got drunk, honest abe, abd never said a harsh word about anyone. Token goody two shoes of my less than desirable crowd.
There is not week that goes by where he does not call me with some rental horror story. Usually ending up with him and the police looking for a rental that someone refuses to bring back. Or there is a wreck in another state with one of his cars that was rented for local use.
And the lists goes on. The company owns the car and does need some form of protection. I know if I owned anagency I would want tracking.
Again the model where you can pay less with the tracking device or pay more without is a good idea.
The reason the companies are doing this is the lack of responsibility of the renters to respect the car and the contract. And remember very few agencies rent to people under 25.
Puro
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
The simple fact is that in our dealings with coroprations, we are frequently required to agree to large, complex, one-sided agreements. People sign (or otherwise agree to) these contracts because they really have no choice. Negotiating on the details of the agreement is simply not an option, and taking your business elsewhere may not be a realistic solution. Rarely are such contracts read - how many contracts have you agreed to without reading? I would imagine the number is in the thousands.
Here, rental car companies are using a GPS-based system to verify that you are not violating your agreement with them. Going on a bit of a tangent here, what if the apartment you rented had cameras in it to verify that you were not violating your landlord's rules? My apartment contract (done up by a big, multi-facility renting firm) states that I may not use the apartment I am in for any business purposes, and that they can kick me out for any breach in their contract. Theoretically, that means if I VPNed into my work network, I could lose my place to live.
Of course, my apartment contract also states that I cannot have anything "flammable" in the apartment, and only the apartment I know of with nothing flammable in it is an empty one, so maybe there is such a thing as going overboard. Still, the question remains as to how far parties will allow each other to supervise that agreements have not been broken, and in all cases, I expect big brother to win.
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That being said, if you sign a contract, and agree to limit your use to specific terms and conditions, expect it to be enforced.
:D. "Yes Ma'am, you appear to have broken a few laws by exceeding the speed limit by five hundred and... oh. Hang on a sec..."
I would still be *SO* tempted to rent a car, pull the satellite tracking 'bits' out, UPS them around the country for a few days, and pop them back in.
Then deal with the 'fine' for doing air transport plane speeds across 8 states
a grrl & her server
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Let me give you a real life example:
My wife used to work for the company managing a high-class commercial office building. The type of building that attracts tenants like law firms that have a need to be in a fancy well maintained building in order to attract high paying clientele. In the bathrooms the management provided various nice toiletries for tenants and their customers or clients. In the women's bathrooms they provided tampons in nice hardwood cigar boxes. The problem was someone kept stealing the expensive cigar-turned-tampon box. What rights did the property owners (who ultimately paid for the box and its replacements) then have to protect their property rights and monitor the cigar box in the bathroom to see who was taking them?
Answer: NONE
Your right to protect your property from mis-use does not supercede the rights to personal privacy in an area where one should expect privacy.
And in case you're wondering, nobody had the right to steal those boxes.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
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What if those measures include attaching alligator clips to your nutsack that become electrified if you go over 55mph?
Budget was amazed when business actually went up, but wondered why so many customers requested shiny black leather seats.
Sugar in the gas tank is not a big deal. More of a nuisance.
b ru ary/02.html
http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/2001/Fe
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
For instance, does Budget immediately and permanently destroy all information about your activities if they are not outside of your contract? Do they have measures to protect the security of your information from crackers? What information exactly do they collect? All information could be attained by law enforcement agencies, almost arbitrarily since PATRIOT. Destroying information won't help if the police get there first and make the people quietly keep the information.
They need to have a clear notification that all your movement in the car is tracked. And it shouldn't just be in the contract -- it's not about the contract at all. They need a big sticker on the dashboard, saying "We track all your movement". That they can use that information to fine you is part of the contract.
Of course, clearly presented with this information, Budget's revenue would probably drop precipitously as people would be seriously spooked by having their movements tracked. But that's as it should be. It's not a free market if parties are uninformed about the products being exchanged.
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All you pooh poohers flaming anyone critical of this policy clearly don't understand that contracts are not supposed to be exploitive or hidden or one sided or vague or invasive.
You do understand that don't you?
What if the 'contract' stated you couldn't but gas except at the rental agency for 3x the retail price but the terms were so vague you didn't read or understand them and they assessed you a $20,000 fine. Still feel good? What if your 'contract' said they could bill your credit card ANY AMOUNT without your knowledge or permission? Still get your Libertarian juices flowing?
Is your cable bill a contract? By your reasoning it is. What if your cable 'contract' stated which pay per view events you were allowed to purchase and that there was penalty if you 'broke' the terms? Still boxing for Adam Smith and John Locke?
You people wave the word contract around like you know what you're talking about. You do know that some contracts are illegal right?
This is done right now at the low end of the market. There are thousands of people driving around in cars that will stop running if they miss a payment.
See the site of Payment Protection Systems, whose motto is "Changing Behavior Through Technology". Their "OnTime" system is primitive; it's just a timer, which resets when given a new key code provided by the payment processor. If not reset, the car won't start. There are warning beeps, a day countdown, and an emergency override you can use once.
The next step up is Payment Sentry, with the slogan "It's Like Having a Collector in the Car!". Payment Sentry uses the Skytel paging system to send remote commands to the car, like "sound audible make-payment warning", "disable starter" or "sound alarm horn". It's one-way, though; there's no back channel.
Finally, there's Tracker International, a full-service vehicle tracking operation. Their GeoTraxx uses GPS and cellular data networks to transmit location. "Using GPS, vehicles can be pinpointed to within 36 feet. Location is fast, too. ... Often, same day location and repo takes place!" They even have a live demo, although it's not working at the moment.
If you had to contact your lawyer every time you entered a commercial transaction, you would experience a lot of what economists call friction. If everyone did this, it would significantly dampen the economy. If this became a common thing, you can be sure that the political process would force disclosure. It already does in many areas, exactly because of these kinds of abuse of trust.
The problem with complex corporate contracts is that few people can afford the time to read them unless they are for something really expensive. One expects certain norms in those contracts, and this is why slipping in a nasty term in the middle of a big contract for a routine purchase is considered a bad thing!
Why are people outraged by this? Because it is unusual. It is sneaky, in that unless properly disclosed it is an unexpected and normally unseen part of the agreement, inconsistent with normal practice. This is what is meant by "fine print" - stuff most people don't have the time to read in their normal life.
The only good weather is bad weather.
Car rental companies get MUCH better deals for coverage from the insurance companies when they restrict the use of the vehicule to a certain range from the base site.
In some areas if the vehicule is only used in ONE state, then they may have a lower tax bill for the commercial nature of the use for the vehicule.
Some local branches get charged more by their "parent company" for "one-way" trips since there are "recovery costs" involved in getting the vehicule back/ reassigned to a different branch.
Normally those costs are simply passed on to the consumer; but then you get those "el-cheapo" rates that attempt to be lower than the competitionn, and they add those unclear restrictions.
But then think of what industry they are in... [have you recently tried to price an airline ticket and actually looked at the restritions disclaimer? There can be a large difference in what can be done between some flights that all have the exact same price]
Still... I personally will think twice before renting from budget again. [and I DO read the fine print...] especially since their contract is NOT clear on ALOT of stuff; and the non-disclosure of the GPS annoys me as well.
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Time is on my side