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The Reverse Challenge: Winners Announced

asqui writes: "The Reverse Challenge was a contest from The Honeynet Project to essentially reverse engineer a binary captured in the wild running on a compromised honeypot. The contest ran during May of this year and the submissions have been judged and the winners announced. Dion Mendel took first place with 43.4 points out of a possible 50. The binary turned out to be a tool for performing remote DoS attacks from compromised hosts, with its instructions being cunningly supplied via the lesser known IP protocol 11. This binary is currently being used in the wild but there is little reported activity, probably because sysadmins are focused on the other more dominant protocols."

53 of 186 comments (clear)

  1. achtung! by eyegor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Quickly!!! Arrest the winners!!! They have obviously violated the DMCA!!!

    --

    Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
    1. Re:achtung! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Quickly!!! Arrest the winners!!! They have obviously violated the DMCA!!!

      EULA: By allowing your system to be compromised by this program you hereby agree to the following license conditions...

  2. Fascinating by SpatchMonkey · · Score: 5, Informative

    This really is fascinating stuff. Note that most of the entrants used the disassembler known as IDA, available here. There was also much discussion of this contest recently on various security-related mailing lists.

    Hopefully they will be doing a similar contest again next year. In the meantime, I guess we'll just have the Scan of the Month to analyse.

  3. I should have asked before the contest but by jsse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How can we tell if some of the contestants were not the same group of persons using that binary?

    If this was the case then reverse engineering it might be pretty straight forward. :)

    Just wonder, not accusation made. :)

  4. this one goes to eleven by Dr.+Awktagon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    *checks /etc/protocols* What the hell is protocol 11?

    Do routers even route protocol 11? Would it make it to its DoS destination? Interesting. Per usual slashdot behaviour, I haven't read the articles yet, but I hope they discuss this a little more.

    Hmm.......

    1. Re:this one goes to eleven by maunleon · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would assume it's NVP (Network Voice Protocol)

      See rfc741

    2. Re:this one goes to eleven by MavEtJu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't worry, it's just a protocol on top of IP. Just like UDP, TCP and ICMP are.

      --
      bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
    3. Re:this one goes to eleven by cookd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do routers even route protocol 11?

      Mu.

      Normal routers don't care what protocol is being used. They route at the IP layer. ICMP, TCP, UDP, and "Protocol 11" are all layered on top of the IP layer.

      Now, a firewall is a different story...

      --
      Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  5. Reverse-Engineering Their HTML by great+throwdini · · Score: 2, Funny

    The results link posted above (http://project.honeynet.org/reverse/results/) is wonderfully tortured HTML ... with the pleasing side-effect of triggering a mouseover color change for over half the text in the opening paragraph when rendered with Mozilla.

    Hey, I found it interesting...

  6. Oh c'mon... by stirfry714 · · Score: 3, Informative

    In response to the people criticizing the information about the protocol used...

    Now someone can't even mention general characteristics of a hack without being criticized for giving information to "script kiddies" or "trojan writers"?

    We know that security through obscurity is a poor excuse. I'd rather have this stuff out in the open so I and others can deal with it, than have it known only to a few...

    1. Re:Oh c'mon... by CProgrammer98 · · Score: 2

      ... and as the agent has to run as root anyway, if someone can root your box, they will also be able to install something like this. From what I read, this agent is largely cut and pasted from other tools, the control-by-protocl-11 is new but hardly eathshattering.

      The source code of this is rather usless to a black-hat unless they can also root the box.

      --
      And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
    2. Re:Oh c'mon... by selan · · Score: 2

      Hear, hear! Folks, remember that this binary was found in the wild. The script kiddies already know what it is; the admins don't.

  7. Protocol 11 information by lingqi · · Score: 4, Informative
    P. 11 is RFC 741 - NVP (network voice protocol)

    look at it here.

    --

    My life in the land of the rising sun.

  8. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by GigsVT · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Network Voice Protocol"

    Your guess is as good as mine, as usual, someone who had no previous clus about nvp will google it and make a +5 informative post, so just wait for that.

    As far as blocking it in ipchains,

    -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p 11 -j DROP

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  9. Here's the RFC straight from the horse's mouth. by tim0thy · · Score: 2, Informative
  10. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by SpatchMonkey · · Score: 2, Redundant
  11. Interesting summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    From the bonus questions:

    Summary

    The program was written in 2000, being inspired by the media attention of the trinoo and TFN DDOS tools. The programmer is most likely young with limited personal resources. The programmer has a low skill level and resorts to the "cut and paste" style of programming. The programmer possibly resides in Europe and socialises with other blackhat style programmers. The programmer is male, overweight and has no social life other than his computer. He wears glasses and was bullied throughout school. He uses computers as a way of getting back at the world which has maligned him. You decide where reality steps aside and Hollywood takes over.

    1. Re:Interesting summary by spitzak · · Score: 2

      Because the worse gcc is, the clearer the structure or the original code. Optimization tends to hide the original code.

  12. ObSpinalTapRef by tswinzig · · Score: 5, Funny

    "This protocol goes to eleven."

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  13. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by maunleon · · Score: 2, Informative
    See rfc751 for information on NVP (or whatever RFC obsoleted that one, if any). You can probably block it.

    To quote...
    The Network Voice Protocol (NVP), implemented first in December 1973, and has been in use since then for local and transnet real-time voice communication over the ARPANET at the following sites:
    o Information Sciences Institute, for LPC and CVSD, with a
    PDP-11/45 and an SPS-41.
    o Lincoln Laboratory, for LPC and CVSD, with a TX2 and the
    Lincoln FDP, and with a PDP-11/45 and the LDVT.
    o Culler-Harrison, Inc., for LPC, with the Culler-Harrison
    MP32A and AP-90.
    o Stanford Research Institute, for LPC, with a PDP-11/40 and an
    SPS-41.
  14. Explanation of "Protocol 11" by josh+crawley · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, what I've pulled from websites and the RFC:

    1:It's a protocol. In IP speak, It's under the same secion that TCP(6), UDP(17), ICMP(1), and others fit under. On unix boxen, it can be found in /etc/protocols . The protocol specification is in the header of the 20 byte beginning part of the IPv4 datagram. It's a 8 bit field.

    2: It was created specifically for voice transfers, along with "telephone emulation" (just the way you interface with the tele). I believe that many, if not all, webphones use this IP protocol. I also think that GSM and US telephones(that use IP networks) use this protocol to transfer voice data.

    Some were asking how this could flood your system.... Well, what's the difference TCP and UDP? Or how about ping floods??? Well, it's all data being sent to you. Doesnt matter what 8 bit field is switched... It's still garbage data (if you didnt request it). It fills up your receving connection.

    Hopefully I've explained what this is. I'll probably be modded redundant as somebody probably wrote a better "explanation" while I wrote mine. Oh well.

    1. Re:Explanation of "Protocol 11" by meanman · · Score: 2, Informative
      2: It was created specifically for voice transfers, along with "telephone emulation" (just the way you interface with the tele). I believe that many, if not all, webphones use this IP protocol. I also think that GSM and US telephones(that use IP networks) use this protocol to transfer voice data.

      The winner of the challenge noted in his writeup that 'Protocol 11 is reserved for the Network Voice Protocol (NVP-II, rfc741 for the curious). NVP-II is an old protocol, generally not considered to be in use today.'

      Some were asking how this could flood your system.... Well, what's the difference TCP and UDP? Or how about ping floods??? Well, it's all data being sent to you. Doesnt matter what 8 bit field is switched... It's still garbage data (if you didnt request it). It fills up your receving connection.

      The binary doesn't use protocol 11 for it's DOS attacks, it uses three known attacks - a SYN flood, a 'jolt' attack (microsoft specific) and a DNS request flood. Protocol 11 was only used for communication between the handler and the agent. Try reading the winner's excellent writeup for more information.

    2. Re:Explanation of "Protocol 11" by Frater+219 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I believe that many, if not all, webphones use this IP protocol. I also think that GSM and US telephones(that use IP networks) use this protocol to transfer voice data.
      Taking a look at the RFC might raise some doubts in your mind regarding that belief. This protocol was designed for use with the old ARPANET protocols, which pre-dated IPv4. I'm guessing the only reason there's a code point for it in /etc/protocols is for old, old compatibility reasons, back when ARPANET was migrating from the old protocol to IP.
    3. Re:Explanation of "Protocol 11" by jareds · · Score: 3, Informative

      2: It was created specifically for voice transfers, along with "telephone emulation" (just the way you interface with the tele). I believe that many, if not all, webphones use this IP protocol. I also think that GSM and US telephones(that use IP networks) use this protocol to transfer voice data.

      Nobody uses it. GSM most certainly does not. I'd be surprised if even a single commercially available webphone uses it.

      Some were asking how this could flood your system.... Well, what's the difference TCP and UDP? Or how about ping floods??? Well, it's all data being sent to you. Doesnt matter what 8 bit field is switched... It's still garbage data (if you didnt request it). It fills up your receving connection.

      This is wrong. The handler sends instructions to the agent via protocol 11. The agent performs traditional DOS attacks. I'm not saying you couldn't flood someone with protocol 11 packets, but that has nothing to do with this tool.

    4. Re:Explanation of "Protocol 11" by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, your explanation is wrong, particularly WRT the role of NVP in the Internet. ie, it has none. Today, the great majority of digital voice sent over the 'net is transmitted using RTP (Real-Time Protocol), which is a protocol layered over IP (ie, at the same level as UDP or TCP). In fact, RTP is also used for things like digital audio, as well (ie, RealAudio). Interestingly, digital voice these days still uses what are essentially separated control and data streams. Today, SIP is used for the signalling portion, and then RTP kicks in for the transport.

      As for GSM, etc, within the wireless network itself, that stuff is transmitted as radio frames using fairly standard communication protocols over what is essentially circuit-switched networks (not quite... it's ATM and other things, but it's all point-to-point links in a tree structure) into the core telephony network. Well, at least, that's what the standards dictate. Within company backbones, it's quite possible they're using RTP or something like that for sending the voice, assuming they're using an IP-based, packet-switched transport, but I wouldn't put money on it, especially since I have no direct knowledge in that area of the telephony industry. It's quite likely they're using various proprietary technologies for that. But they're certainly NOT using NVP.

  15. Re:Arg... by damiam · · Score: 2

    No. Shut up and stop making stupid jokes.

    --
    It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  16. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by elandal · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's Network Voice Protocol, and it's safe to block unless You use it (and You should know if You do).

    I have default DENY, and specific ACCEPT rules. As everything I do ACCEPT contains a protocol, this means that unknown protocols are denied. For as long as You run only IPv4, no multicast, and so on (like most people do - although IPv6 is gaining), You only need icmp, igmp, tcp, and udp. Read /etc/protocols for mysterious acronyms.

    If You default to ACCEPT, or have very broad ACCEPT rules based on just eg. the IP addresses, You can, with ipchains, deny as follows:
    ipchains -A input -j DENY -p nvp
    Not tested, but should work.
  17. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by mamba-mamba · · Score: 4, Informative
    I suggest you read the info on the pages referenced in the top-level post. Here is an excerpt.

    Detection
    =========

    Any network traffic using an unusual protocol should be suspect. This tool
    uses protocol 11, but could easily be recompiled to use another protocol.
    As protocol 11 is not currently used, any network traffic using this
    protocol should be assumed to be communication between handlers and agents
    of this tool. The signature for detecting agent / handler communication
    was described in the previous section.

    Note that the source address of a packet from handler -> agent should not
    be assumed to be the actual address of the handler. The source address in
    the IP header is most likely to be spoofed. Similarly, data from agent ->
    handler is often faked to increase the difficulty of tracing the attacker's
    whereabouts.

    To hide from casual detection, the agent changes its process name to
    [mingetty].
    This is the standard getty for RedHat, and Slackware versions pre 7.0.

    To detect a running agent on a system, netstat can be used to determine
    if any processes are using protocol 11. The following command and
    response shows a running agent process.

    # netstat -pan | grep raw | grep :11
    raw 0 0 0.0.0.0:11 0.0.0.0:* 7 5226/[mingetty]

    If found, all instances of mingetty should be killed (to ensure that
    children are caught as well). This will kill valid mingetty processes
    as well, but they will be respawned by the init process.

    # ps ax | grep mingetty | grep -v grep | awk '{print $1}' | xargs kill -9

    The system should immediately be taken off the network and analysed to
    determine how the attacker gained root access.

    I don't believe it would do you any harm to block protocol 11. I would recommend that you block all protocols except for udp, icmp, and tcp, while you are at it. In fact, you can probably allow TCP and UDP only if you are a home user. I would just allow ICMP for the hell of it. Just set up a default incoming policy for all packets of "DROP," then accept all TCP packets, or all TCP packets meeting certain criteria, as desired. iptables allows you to specify protocols by number or name in a rule, using the "-p" parameter.
    You should be able to block everything except TCP with something like:

    iptables -F INPUT
    iptables -P INPUT DROP
    iptables -A INPUT -p TCP -j ACCEPT

    if you also want to accept UDP (you do), then add this:
    iptables -A INPUT -p UDP -j ACCEPT

    for ICMP:
    iptables -A INPUT -p ICMP -j ACCEPT

    Note that ping, and a variety of other things, use ICMP, so I reccommend that you enable it.

    Proper firewall configuration is a complex topic (and I'm not an expert at it). What I have posted above is not intended to create a safe firewall. I am hoping that you can figure the rest out yourself, or modify the above to suit your needs.

    I have to run, so good luck.

    MM
    --

    --
    By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
  18. Re:Is it really NVP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As far as I can tell, this program doesn't use NVP for attacking, and instead uses it as a covert channel on which it sends instructions to already compromised hosts, such as which host to DOS etc..

    As such, as long as routers in general route it (since it's encapsulated in IP, this is not a problem) it doesn't matter that noone's listening to it. An already compromised host will be listening to it, and that's what matters.

    Yes that means your correct to say that it's just saying that the packets are #11, while not implementing NVP at all.

  19. About the binary by eaglesnax · · Score: 5, Informative

    I participated in the contest, and to answer a few questions:

    1) Protocol 11 is used in this tool simply as a messaging protocol. No attempt was made by the author to adhere to the published NVP RFC. The author simply sticks 11 in the protocol field of the IP header. Think of each packet as a UDP packet, no handshake, etc...

    2) Protocol 11 is not used to perform any of the DoS attacks. The attacks are fairly standard DoS attacks like TCP SYN, and ICMP echo floods.

    3) Protocol 11 get through many firewalls because sysadmins only set up rules to block unwanted TCP, UDP, and ICMP packets.

    4) Single incoming protocol 11 packets are used to trigger compromised hosts to perform selected DoS attacks

    I hope that helps

    Chris

    1. Re:About the binary by pmineiro · · Score: 2, Insightful


      3) Protocol 11 get through many firewalls because sysadmins only set up rules to block unwanted TCP, UDP, and ICMP packets.

      Sad but true. The lesson here is, setup firewalls with default deny rules, and only accept the packets you want.

    2. Re:About the binary by PacoTaco · · Score: 2
      3) Protocol 11 get through many firewalls because sysadmins only set up rules to block unwanted TCP, UDP, and ICMP packets.

      This is yet another reason why you should always use a default deny stance when configuring your firewall. Just blocking proto 11 because you read this article is not going to make your network any more secure.

    3. Re:About the binary by cwebster · · Score: 3, Funny

      5) UDP's protocol number is 17, or 0x11. Who wants to bet he forgot a 0x in his code and use of proto 11 is a bug :)

    4. Re:About the binary by Dave9876 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Nope, it is protocol 11(decimal), ie. ox0b.
      From my own playing around with "the-binary" during the contest (on a box that was totally disconnected from the world), I got the following from an strace -f

      socket(PF_INET, SOCK_RAW, 0xb /* IPPROTO_??? */) = 0

      As you can see, it's opening it as protocol 11, and he didn't miss an 0x from the beginning. So, it's not just UDP.

    5. Re:About the binary by cwebster · · Score: 2

      whether or not the user put 0xb or 11, the compilation process is going to write 00001011 into the 8 bits that represent that variable. Now when you run strace or a dissasembler, it looks at this binary number 00001011, and it can print 0xb to make it pretty for you, but it cannot tell you if the original source code put 0xb, 11, 013, (2011-2000), (5*2+1), etc.

      so, as i can see, strace interprets data in hexidecimal by default (%X!!), which i dont find surprising at all.

  20. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by CoolVibe · · Score: 2
    Oh, add the IPv6 counterparts to all of that while you're at it if you use ipv6. See /etc/protocols.

    Allowing _only_ icmp udp and tcp will break your ipv6 setup if you have one.

    People that don't use IPv6 should ofcourse ignore my advice :)

  21. why can't we all be Italian? by oliphaunt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I spent a little time reading the solutions of the winner, and of the #9 guy who won the $200 gift certificate for the most concise answer. I clicked on the "cost estimate" link for the winner.

    I thought it would be one of those vaporous confabulations of how many BILLIONS of dollars' worth of corporate man hours would be lost to this exploit. Surprise! It's an estimate of what he would charge you to do this, if you were paying him ~$70k a year. If you don't want to click, it was about $3500 for the winner, and about $850 for the 9th place guy.

    Then I started clicking a couple at random, and I noticed that the various cost analyses of various teams seem to cluster between $2500 and $4000 or so.

    The Italian team are the clear outliers, claiming that they would bill over $10,000 JUST for the RE team and the analysis write-up. They included a full day's billing to cover "meeting, discussion, and coffee time."

    the conclusions? a) one dutch kid can do the work of 8 Italian professionals in about 1/40th the time, and b) i need to get a job in Italy.

    --




    Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
  22. Use of unused protocol numbers by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The only IP protocol numbers in widespread use are for ICMP, UDP, and TCP. Almost everything else is some obsolete thing from the early days of the Internet. (Reading through the list gives me a feeling of nostalgia, with people, protocols, and equipment I remember from the earliest days of TCP/IP research. Xerox Parc Universal Protocol over IP over 3MB Ethernet...)

    Other than to be obscure, there's no good reason to use an unused IP protocol number rather than an unused UDP protocol number. This attack could equally well have used an UDP port.

    It's worth checking servers to see if there's anything configured to listen to obsolete protocol numbers and unused UDP ports. Many UNIX servers still have a vast number of obsolete Berkeley daemons running. Some, like "biff", have known vulnerabilities. And it's worth checking for traffic on obsolete protocol numbers to see if some spyware is using them.

  23. My thoughts on some of the analysis by Dynedain · · Score: 2


    For the DNS attack, SOA queries for the following domains are made

    com
    net
    edu
    org
    de Germany
    usc.edu University of Southern California
    es Spain
    gr Greece
    ie Ireland
    Why the contrast between country codes for countries in Europe, and an US university? A theory on this is that the programmer resides in Europe, hence the familiarity with the European country codes, and has friends studying at usc.edu.


    Having just graduated from USC.... I am more inclined to think that coder is(was) a student here, or at a big rival school (such as UCLA). I would be more likely then that the country codes were the first ones that came to his head, or that they were the countries that his friends (or enemies) originate from. (USC and UCLA both have unordinately large populations of foreign students compared to other US universities)

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    1. Re:My thoughts on some of the analysis by Dynedain · · Score: 2

      And on an ironic side note, USC's mascot is "Tommy Trojan"

      Another possible reason why it is the only non-top level domain included.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  24. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by ComputerSlicer23 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Hmmm, no, read up on the IP level and try again. UDP/TCP/ICMP aren't the only protocols. There are lots of others, one of them happens to be "NVP" or whatever the hell it is. It is "service 11", as in grep "11" /etc/protocols and you'll see it right there. If you're on a UNIX box when you call socket(), you have to give it a protocol (the third parameter). IP is it's own protocol, and does not need to run TCP or UDP on top of it, you can use it as a transport for anything you want. Normally when you call socket, you tell it the type (the second parameter) and pass zero for the protocol and it does the right thing. However, if you so chose to you could call:

    getprotoent() repeatedly

    and find the protocol number you want to use.

    If I remember correctly, all of the BGP and EGP, and a number of the router protocols speak something besides straight TCP/UDP. It's essentially anything you can do on layer 4 of the OSI network model.

    It's not a port. It's not a port. It's not a port. It's a protocol (you know like the "P" in TCP). It isn't TCP, it doesn't need to be dumbed down with an analogy. Lots of plenty intelligent people on slashdot actually understand some of the technology they post on, honest.

    You might want to bone up on some basic networking before talking down to a guy who clearly understands piles more about networking then you demonstrated in your previous post. For all I know you're a networking guru, your last post however did not display that very well.

    Service 11 (which communicates over both TCP and UDP according to RH 7.2's /etc/service) is systat, which is a good idea to disable as it gives out information about you're machine. So the idea of shutting off port 11 probably isn't a bad one...

    Thanks, Kirby

    PS: Sorry to post a complete flame, but the people talking about service 11 (NVP), do actually know a lot about what they are talking about. They don't need somebody to beat them with a cluestick about how ports work in TCP, by somebody who seems completely unaware of the fact that protocols besides TCP/UDP/ICMP exist, and that numbers refer to something other then ports.

  25. Re:Forgive my naivete but by Spock+the+Vulcan · · Score: 2

    It is amazing how confidently people spout wrong information, analogies and all. I wish there were a (-1, wrong) moderation available.

    IP has no concept of port numbers - it is a network layer protocol and its job is to deliver packets from one IP address to another. It acts as a "carrier" for other protocols like TCP, UDP, or in this case NVP. To identify this super-protocol, the IP packet has a field for the protocol number. TCP = 6, UDP = 17, NVP = 11. So if an incoming packet says protocol #6, it is passed up to the TCP handler; if it says 17, it is passed to UDP.

    Now the TCP/UDP/whatever protocol is free to use whatever means it finds fit to identify the actual process that is the destination of the packet - this is what port numbers are used for. So IP delivers the packet to a certain host, and then the next-level protocol looks at the port number in that packet to figure out which process it should be fed to.

    It should be clear now that port numbers have nothing to do with protocol numbers.

  26. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by jayed_99 · · Score: 2
    Eek! You are right. I am wrong. The post that I replied to is correct. I am wrong. I should know better than to post to slashdot after a night of heavy drinking.

    Thanks for pointing our my error without saying "Hey, you fucking dumbass" -- even though it might be implied. While I don't like being wrong more than anyone else, I do appreciate being corrected.

    Thanks.

  27. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by jayed_99 · · Score: 2
    I apologize. My first response to you was wrong, retarded, and obnoxious. I have had the error of my ways, and thought process pointed out to me by others. (Just read all of the replies). I really should not give in to the "let's go look at slashdot" after a night out.

    Later.

  28. Next scan of the month... by snake_dad · · Score: 5, Funny
    Analyse the DoS attact honeynet.org experienced July 8, 2002.

    Bonus question: explain why this attack had so many valid originating IP addresses.

    --
    karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
  29. Let's hope so. by dark-nl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This tool was already using it, so we already have to upgrade our detection tools (where necessary) to deal with odd protocol numbers. If many other trojan writers start using the same trick, then it will just make them that much easier to detect.

  30. Have you forgotten the old masters Grasshopper? by The+Creator · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A samrt Sysadmin knows to check slashdot.org once per day to see what irreposnible hints you are giving to script kiddies..

    From The Art Of War by Sun Tzu:
    "The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not
    on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have
    made our position unassailable."

    So a sysadmin relying on the attackers inability is if fact the irresponible one! neener neener :)

    --

    FRA: STFU GTFO
  31. Dion Mendel by ardiri · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i went to school with this guy :)

    one hell of a smart guy; although strange at times (not at all bad). married to tiki swain - also another "unfound" talent. many would not see him as a "computer nerd" *g* - he is short, thin, hates working, hates wearing shoes - and, likes to live in the "wild". mcdonalds, coke, all other commercial stuff just isn't his cue - he prefers finding food in the wild :) overall a great guy - met him in march this year back in perth (australia). nice to see someone finally recognises some of his talent.

    kudo's dion!

  32. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by Junta · · Score: 2

    I would say -P input DROP
    or DENY if ipchains
    same goes for forward, and if an endstation nothing more need be done.

    If it is a server with predetermined network needs, the doing the same for output is possible. Actually, even for client workstations you can at the very least limit output to tcp/udp/icmp/more as needed (i.e. ESP/AH), so a default DROP rule is good there too....

    If you want to be nice at the risk of consuming upstream bandwidth and opening up a route for other bad stuff, you can use REJECT. I always use DROP, few legitimate systems get hung up on the timeouts and it really slows down a vast majority of port scanners, it also causes your system to slip below the radar for certain scanners, and they never know you're there to attempt attack.. And whatever you do, never *EVER* use MIRROR unless you really really *REALLY* understand what it does and truly know what it is doing. I had a friend who used MIRROR rule liberally, he thought it would be cute to see Script Kiddies scripts backfire on them. Well, we received an attacked with a spoofed source address. The legitimate holder of the source address was operated by CERT. Needless to say thte shit hit the fan when CERT saw what appeared to be him attempting to attack CERT, and he was disconnected from his high speed network access for a year over this in the end.

    Just some very basic firewall advice, as is this forum wasn't full enough of it. I always had tight enough reigns on FORWARD and INPUT so this is not so much of an issue, as the system is not at risk for sending out this traffic, but now I think I'll add more strict output rules in case something applicable comes around.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  33. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by elandal · · Score: 2

    Some multicast. I think NTP and RIP2, could be more.

  34. Yes. by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    Routers absolutely route it. IT's still IP. It's not something strange or wonderful; it's just an IP packet with the protocol ID field set to '11'.

    Have a look at /etc/protocols on your favorite unix system, or just google for ip protocol IDs to see.

    It's just something you don't usually hear about because we tend to only use TCP, UDP, and ICMP, and maybe GRE. (protocols 6, 17,1,and 47, respectively).

    You can generate IP packets of whatever protocol ID you want and routers SHOULD route them.

  35. Re:Forgive my naiveness but by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    Block ICMP too, except for the TCP_FRAGMENTATION_REQUIRED messages, otherwise you cripple TCP a bit.

  36. Re:what a tard by bourne · · Score: 2

    If you look at the story the guy calls it protocol 11 but then he tells you to grep netstat output for anything using port 11.

    And if you actually read the grep command line, you note that he's only looking for lines with 'raw' in them. Anything other than TCP and UDP shows up in netstat as 'raw' - for example, ICMP is protocol 1, and will show up like this on a RedHat system:

    $ netstat -anp | grep raw
    raw 0 0 0.0.0.0:1 0.0.0.0:*

    In short... he knows what he is talking about. You, however, should probably go read a man page or two.