HavenCo Doing Well

davecl writes: "The off-shore datahaven, HavenCo, is doing well, according to the BBC. HavenCo is based on a WW2 gunnery platform several miles of the English coast. In the 60s it was outside the 3 mile territorial waters, and a retired Army officer moved there and proclaimed it the independent state of Sealand. In the 80s territorial waters were extended to 12 miles. Sealand's nation status is this unclear, but this hasn't stopped HavenCo setting up their data haven. Customers are largely gambling sites, but an increasing number of political groups, such as the Tibetan Government in Exile, are based there in an effort to escape government censorship. More regulation of the web means more customers, and business is booming. Wonder if others will see this as a way of making money out of beating censorship?" We've mentioned Sealand several times before -- it's great to hear they're defying the skeptics.

Comments

more info

[cr@ckwhore]

I took interest in the story of Sealand about 2 years ago. There's plenty of reading material available on the web..

try www.sealandgov.com... excellent historical information, including Sealand's first naval battle.

Also,www.fruitsofthesea.demon.co.uk/sealand/ has a decent picture gallery so you can visualize just how small this platform is.

I had an email conversation with somebody at sealand back when I first heard of the place. I kept the email... funny thing, it usually took them a few months to reply. Being that havenco is very security oriented, I'm sure they use latency to their advantage for communications. Interesting rule of Havenco... customers aren't allowed to supply their own machines in the sake of security.

Re:more info

[stefanlasiewski]

It must have more to it than it appears... space in the pillars, perhaps.

One pillar holds the server rooms, and one holds the living quarters.

The history page says that 200 soldiers were stationed there (presumably, at the same time), and the little hut on top isn't enough room for 25 and their food and gear, much less 200.

No, 200 people cannot live on that thing at the same time.

Think about it: it was a platform for anti-aircraft guns, and not many guns could fit on that deck. You don't need 200 people to man a handful of anti-aircraft guns.

I read an article once (which I could find the link) which talked a bit about the admins at HavenCo. There are 1-3 admins present at a time (I think they are the owners of HavenCo also), and one of their biggest complaints was that there was nowhere to go on your break. You could go for a walk around the platform, but that would keep you occupied for about 5 minutes.

Pretending

[Skyshadow]

It's sweet that HavenCo can sit out in the ocean and play make-believe, but how long do you *really* think they could last if they ever hosted something that really caught the ire of Britain? They have no political recognition, no real ability to defend themselves and no sort of general support from anyone.

Really, there are no real protections to be had here other than those provided by British law -- everything else is a mere SAS raid away from extinction. You could set this place up anywhere in the semi-free world and provide the same level of protection -- it's all just a publicity stunt.

Re:Pretending

[AndrewHowe]

They played by the rules. Without doubt, they are a sovereign nation (check the history of Sealand if you don't believe me). Yes, the SAS could raid them, but that would effectively mean that the UK had declared war on another nation. That wouldn't be a particularly good PR exercise.

Re:Pretending

[Skyshadow]

that would effectively mean that the UK had declared war on another nation

In practice, national governments don't get any sort of protection unless someone pretty important recognizes them as being legit -- look at what the US did in Afghanistan, for chrissake.

That aside, you don't even need to be a government to take this place out -- a well-placed shaped charge on one of the supports would send this SOB to the bottom of the ocean, and *anyone* with sufficiant knowledge and motivation could do it.

I'll believe in a data haven when one shows up in a real country. This place is just hype.

Re:Sealand

[throwaway18]

Ok, I can karma whore too, Ryan Lackey, the sealand CTO has a couple of pictures on his home page He's a cool geezer. He has shown up at london 2600 and DNScon in the past.

Re:Really secure?

[Bogatyr]

That seems more plausible to me than this Sealand thingy.
Plausible? Cryptonomicon was a novel. Sealand is a real and physical creation. I acknowledge your point the datahaven in Cryptonomicon has potentially longer-term chances for survival, but it's simply not real, in that you can't store your data in the fictional underground datahaven. Sealand is real in that they will take your money and host your data. I forget which writer commented works of fiction have to be more plausible than real life, even if they might contain fantastical elements. l

Artificial islands dont

[Animats]

1982 Convention on the Law of the Sea, Article 60 (8):

• Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf. As a compromise in the balance of granting artificial structures some kind of adjacent jurisdiction, and that attribution of a territorial sea would mean a unjustified encroachment of the High Seas, the artificial structures were granted safety zones with the maximum reach of 500 metres. These zones are to be publicised, and all ships must respect them, but these zones are in no sense territorial sea.