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wxWindows vs. MFC
EvanED queries: I'm going to devoloping a chess program, and was until a couple days ago planning to do it in MFC. But then I ran across wxWindows. I think it would be cool if it were able to run under Linux. (At the moment, I do not have Linux on any computer but will as soon as I get my own machine.) Do the benefits of supposed cross-platformness outweigh the drawbacks of having to learn a new system and not having all the (incredibly wonderful) automatic code generation features Visual C++ provides for MFC programs? Or would it perhaps be better to write it in MFC since I am reasonably familiar with it then port it to wxWindows?"
I can pretty much guarantee that you will be more productive and have your product out the door faster, event if you need to ramp up on both Python and wxWindows.
Lots more information at:
If you are a newbie, then write it in MFC. Porting to wxWindows is easy--I recently ported an MFC project at work to wxGTK on Solaris, and chaning all the MFC calls to wxWindows calls only took a couple of hours for a 2 man-month project.
If, on the other hand, you are confident with MFC, then just skip it and write straight to wxWindows. Basically, if you write in MFC with VC++, you can use all the class wizard stuff to set up message maps and create stub functions, etc, and it's just faster to get it up and running if you don't know how to do this yourself. Then, you can do easy search and replace to convert to wxWindows. For example, all of your Invalidates become "Refresh," all of your CDCs become wxDC, CString becomes wxString, etc etc. You will have to make a couple of small changes here and there, but search and replace will be 90% of the work.
If you know how to set up the message maps and whatnot yourself, then just take one of the example programs (it comes with loads of examples) and start modifying to taste. There is really good documentation on the website, although I found the search capabilities cumbersome.
This is a question you can only answer yourself. It's always more work to take more than one platform into consideration, and wxWindows is no panacea in this regard. Only bother with cross platform coding if you really indend for the code to be run across platforms. That said, wxWindows is nicer to use than MFC, although for a Windows-based chess program, I doubt you'll be able to avoid MFC entirely. MFC just does more than wxWindows.
This autogenerated code is so awful, I used to create it just to frighten people: "Look how many lines of code it takes for this dialog box!! Pay me more!!" MFC is the single largest reason I've given up on Windows programming permanently (Winsock is a close second). Since this is clearly a learning experience for you (right?), then go ahead, play with MFC. Nothing teaches like pain. But be warned, MFC plus Visual C++ can make you hate real C++ by warping your mind. __int32 indeed.
This is the path of greatest work and quite likely greatest learning. If you'd like to pursue the path of least pain to produce a truly cross-platform GUI app, I suggest, from experience, TrollTech's QT.if you use .Net with GTK#, you not only help out the development effort of gtk# (by testing) and mono (if you go for the whole platform-independent thing), you learn a toolkit that is going to be commonly useful. I don't know much about wxWindows, only that its never been a requirement for any job i've interviewed for, and as far as i'm concerned, MFC is dead... yeah, there's still a lot of apps written in it, but very few new ones.
I always felt if someone thought VS's "automatic code generation" is anything other than an annoying waste of time, you've either never used it, or are only a cookbook programmer, and you don't sound like either.
Starting from scratch, I'd be more inclined to go with wxWindows, although I personally would get up and running much faster with MFC since I have used it for years.
MFC makes some things easier, but many features carry an obscene amount of bloat, and are often less hassle to write from scratch than deal with Microsoft's way of doing things (I certainly found that to be the case for doing ftp... using MFC required writing more code than doing it from scratch!)
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Absolutely, cross-platform is worth a lot.
If you use MFC, you tie yourself to whatever Microsoft decides about its money-making schemes.
wxWindows is here to stay. The GUI is native on any platform. Yes, there may be slow-downs in development, but the need will not go away.
Within two years, after governments evaluate the security risk of using U.S. software, they will pass laws that government workers must use Linux or BSD. That will cause the movement away from Windows to accelerate.
There will come a time when Linux is the dominant OS. It would be unfortunate if you could not run your program on Linux.
Sounds like you've got a pet project you'd like to develop in order to get your feet wet. Which I heartily recommend. And maybe it will lead to bigger and better things, as time goes on -- maybe even commercial possibilities -- who knows? Or if not, at least it will be fun.
I've used MFC and wxWindows quite alot. MFC is quite primitive by comparison to wxWindows -- the MFC design is old, and it shows. For example, try making a resizeable dialog in MFC! If you use MFC, you'll be stuck with Windows. Porting the app to wxWindows (or any other GUI framework) will be non-trivial -- you'll be writing from scratch, using your MFC app as a model. Not that that would be all bad -- it's one way to iterate toward a good design. But really, there are faster ways to get to a good design. So, MFC is basically bad, mostly because it ties to you Windows, and secondly because the GUI framework is excessively primitive.
wxWindows is free. Not GPL -- just plain old free, almost anyway (you'll have to read the fine print -- I think you have to give attribution, etc -- but there is no restriction on selling your creation). That trumps Qt, which is a much GUI framework (on technical merits alone, Qt is hands-down the best C++ framework that I've seen). The problem with Qt is that you must decide up-front whether you're going to create a forever-free (GPL-style) app, or whether you might want to charge for it some day. If you start creating it as a free app, it must forever remain so. What a horrible license. So, for most small-time operators with potential commercial aspirations, that puts Qt firmly out of reach (their developer's license is, or was, around $1000).
If you go with wxWindows, then by all means you _must_ get wxDesigner - a proprietary GUI builder. I think it's $50-$100 or so (it was $50 when I bought it). What a great program! Once you become fluent with the layout paradigm (which I found to be quite natural), you'll be very productive with it -- much more productive than with MFC.
Well, I could go on and on.
A couple of quick thoughts: As someone else pointed out -- you should probably check out wxPython, which makes the wxWindows API available to Python. You'd probably be alot more productive that way -- development with C++ can be very slow (especially on Linux!). If you go the wxPython route, you'll be able to reuse all your GUI design -- wxDesigner can produce both C++ and Python code.
In short, if you want to have fun, and explore the world of GUI programming, stay away from MFC. It has little to offer. If you want the best, and you're ready to GPL your software, go with Qt, which is the best GUI framework hands-down. If you want to keep your options open, especially in terms of which platforms you want to deliver on, then go with wxWindows (and look into wxPython).
> VC++ and wxWindows both require lots of macros, however.
.NET), they're so similar in many respects (not by accident either) that learning one makes you comfortable in all the other ones. Leaning MFC OTOH prepares you for not much else. You might as well learn win32 API (well, you have to anyway), since at least you could then create your own framework.
Learning MFC is learning Microsoft Macro(TM). It's the most shallow and unambitious class framework I've ever seen, almost to the point of making you wonder why they even bothered with C++ (the templates I guess). Doing anything remotely interesting with the GUI requires falling back to messages and win32 calls. If you look at serious class frameworks (Borland's original OWL, then VCL, Java,
Make up your mind. If you want Windows only, do it in WTL. There is no part of WTL that is not better than MFC. Microsoft uses it internally.
.NET... C# & Windows Forms are a godsend compared to MFC's nonstop bullshit.
If you're used to MFC, then you should check out
If you're going to use wxWindows, keep in mind that it works very well with Python, so you may want to go that route rather than play the "VC++ does it this way and GCC does it this way and everyone's telling me to rtfm and I hate my life" game.
There are plenty of other people here who are qualified to tell you about tk or qt or mozilla or other cross platform toolkits.
For God's sake, don't do MFC. Not when there are SO many other options and each one brings more benefits to the table. Nothing you could have done, including raping prematurely born babies, could possibly deserve having to write an app in MFC. The world has come so far in the last 10+ years... Join us!
[o]_O
Why limit yourself to two platforms? Write the back-end of your chess program so that it communicates with a front-end client by passing certain messages (perhaps in XML format). You might even make the message specifications public so that others could write clients for your chess engine.
The back-end only needs to concern itself with a virtualized game, not worrying about the details of how to go about putting a picture on the screen or interacting with the user.
This also allows the engine to apply 99.99% of its compute cycles toward planning its next move. It won't waste any time on mouse movement or other windowing events. Only when it receives a message will it be interrupted from "thinking."
By separating the core part from the presentation part, it allows you to use your chess engine with multiple front-ends. You might write one front end for Windows, one for Linux, one for Mac, and another with a web interface. The front end only has to know how to interact with the user and send and receive messages to the chess engine.
You could even expand the engine to handle multiple games at once. That extra feature should be easy to implement if the back-end and front-end are separated. It just means keeping track of more than one game and communicating with more than one client. You could be playing against it on your Windows box while someone else is playing over the web. Or perhaps you could set it up so that another human could play instead of the computer.
If you write your back-end using reasonable standards, then you should be able to easily port your chess engine to another system since you don't have to worry about different windowing systems.
Just a thought
Ouch! The truth hurts!
This is a very dangerous definition, as it invites a following else to be misunderstood. For example, it breaks the following:
if(foo) for(int i=0;i<42;++i){...}
else cout<<"Oops!\n";
A better fix is therefore
#define for if(0);else for
(Or use false instead of 0 if you prefer, but there are probably still compilers out there that don't understand bools.)