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Wireless Internet Co-Ops?
einstein asks: "How many other geeks out there are purchasing high speed commercial net connections to the remote areas they live, and then selling access to their neighbors to help cover costs? I know of a remote area with about 20-30 house all of which could access a wireless lan connection to share a 1.5 ADSL connection. I'm planning on bugging the neighbors to see if there interested soon, and I'd like to have some idea if this has worked for other people. So, who's doing this in a Co-Op fashion, and how is it working?" This probably won't be possible with most residential DSL providers, however would they let this fly on their commercial lines?"
Internet service has cool scruples
This article speaks for itself.
80N
A few of my friends in Tasmania are working on this sort of thing. It's meant to be a public access wireless network that allows users to be on the same network as everyone (theoretically) else in Tasmania. It doesn't have an internet access point, yet, and from what I've heard, when an internet gateway is established, at some point in the future, there will be a small fee for access. The URL is as follows.
http://www.tas.air.net.au/
I know of a remote area with about 20-30 house
all of which could access a wireless lan
connection to share a 1.5 ADSL connection.
If you can get ADSL there it isn't remote.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I've been trying to set this sort of thing up in my neighborhood for about a year now, but it seems tough to get it started. The plan is to purchase a T1 line and split the bandwidth with the community up here using a wireless POP. The problems are basically:
1. Cost of the T1 is about $1200/mo including the local loop, free setup and router.
2. Cost of initial setup is about $10K for all the wireless antenna and equipment capable of penetrating the trees and such where we live
We live in a rural community near Lake Tahoe that will never get DSL. Distribution via wireless is difficult because of all the trees (we live in a forest). This forces us to use high-gain antenna at both the POP and the client. With our startup costs, the costs of the T1 and the client costs of about $500, it is hard to convince enough of the locals to sign up. Most are second homeowners that only use their house on weekends and holidays and don't feel like coughing up $500 and $70/mo. We figure we need about 20 people to break even.
One nice aspect is that the longer we wait, the better technology gets. The new Motorola Canopy system (check old Slashdot) seems interesting. The price of bandwidth also keeps falling. I expect that I'll probably end up splitting the T1 with just a couple of people using hand-strung fibre. It will probably be easier to find three or four people close by willing to spend $200-300/mo anyway. Besides, I have a real job and I don't feel like playing ISP with all my spare time!
Dan
http://www.doconnect.com
http://www.flarg.com
I am getting ready to do this in Silver Springs, Nevada. Right now I have a Omni-Directional antenna on my roof and one connection about three miles away. We get about 5mbits/sec on the connection to my server. We are using Linksys WMP11 cards, a cantenna's at the client site. So far its working perfect.
We have about 70 people interested in joining. I'm going to charge $35 per connection. The T1 is going to cost me $1313 a month with a $1200 setup. I have a 32 mile loop (included in price). I have all the server equipment to get started. I figure it will be about $150-200 for the customer to get hooked up. The linksys WMP11 is about $65-80. The Dish is about $45-60. The cable is about $20-40. We can setup cantenna's for most people. Since this is the desert, no trees. All I want is about 100 customers. That is about all I can handle.
So far everything is working out great. I have a few more tests to do with more people on the line and if everything works, I'm ready to start.
The main problem I'm trying to figure out right now is how to have user logins. I can go VPN or PPPoE. I am leaning to PPPoE right now. All I need is a login with password to verify people and not allow free rides. I think this is going to be the hardest part.
I am going to write all the plans on how to get things going when I get things going so that other people in other places can do the same.
The above is not worth reading.
Then it dawned on me... I've been thinking for a bit that I want to install a wireless LAN in my neighborhood (even using 802.11a, so I get 54+ Mbps, as opposed to the usual 11), and be a sort of ISP for the neighborhood. Places like D-Link offer "Turbo" modes that can do 72 Mbps; wouldn't you pay $75/month or something for a 72 Mbps "broadband" connection? Even if you use the $3,000/month figure for an "ISP" Cogent line, I'd only need to find 40 customers at $75/month, and I'm breaking even. And I bet that the actual bandwidth usage would be VERY small; even Slashdot doesn't pull 72 Mbps sustained.
The nearest Cogent-served city is almost 100 miles away, and a lot of my neighbors are the "No thanks, I like my AOL" type, but if Cogent ever comes to town, this is something I'd very seriously consider.
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suwain_2
I am in the same situation but I am one of the customers (wish to be anyway). There is a small wireless ISP a few miles away from where I am. The only problem and the reason I am still using a crummy modem is because of the bloody trees around my house.
To get over all the trees, it was approximated that I will need to purchase some sort of tower that is about 70ft+. Only problem is a tower of that height costs a ton ($1000+). Atleast I could not find one at an affordable amount. So right now I am waiting until March when I get my bonus and I am going to buy the tower.
But I must ask, is there some sort of antennae that would be powerful enough that trees would not matter? Or does anyone know where I can get an affordable tower?
Please help a poor broadbandless family (with children I might add).
How is this moderated a three. The question is clearly about a CO-OP as in co-operation.
obviously not someone from New York City where coop apartments got around many of the nasty housing regulations like rent control. Each tenant is not really a tenant, they purchase, for a large sum like a condo, a share in the company which owns the building. As shareholders, they can do whatever the hell they want. Kick out other members, turn away certain members, whatever.
that is what is being proposed here. You and your neighbors go your bank and open a commercial checking account. Have the board of directors (you and your neighbors) pass a resolution naming company officers and have one of them order a commercial high speed line, and sign for it. The company will be in the contract, and won't be reselling it, it will only go to owners of the company.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Anyone thinking of doing this may want to take a look at forming a Limited Liability Company to protect yourself. I know in Michigan it only costs something like $80, is a 1 or 2 page form, and only requires adding Schedule K to your personal taxes (you could even take advantage and write off your equipment and service costs possibly).
Research it, though... I AM NOT A LAWYER.
Sure. The key was we had a wise developer who wired every unit with 8 pair of cat 5 cables (plus 12 pair of cat 3). At our first HOA meeting, someone brought up the idea of shared internet and we found that half a dozen people had had the same idea and some had even done research. We just assigned a few volunteers with the following tasks:
1. Helping people wire their units for ethernet. Each unit was expected to pay for materials, but the labour was all donated.
2. Buying a bunch of 10baseT cards on ebay (this was four years ago) to keep costs down. This obviously wouldn't be an issue today.
3. Buying a used switch. Also less of an issue today.
4. Figuring out the Internet service - we had to generally check out business services rather than residential because we needed more IP addresses and less overall restrictions.
5. Using a donated PC to set up a Linux box as the community mail and webserver. This sits in a locked electrical closet in common space.
All in all, for a little shared investment of time and money, we've had spectacular service at less than most people pay for dialup. Only one out of 22 units decided not to go with this option and put in his own DSL (I still don't know why) and we are considering changing this "option" on HOA billing to just be included - a utility like hot water. We've also added new features on since then such as wireless access on one floor and the roof.
One other thing, feedback from both those selling their units and those renting them out has been that high speed internet is a significant selling point, and that the return on our (small) investment has been wonderful. This is a good argument for those who are on the fence, or wouldn't use the service themselves.
If your going to try and be a wISP, join in the isp-planet.com forums. isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com WAP11's work for some people, not for others. They are a VERY bad pice of hardware, random lock up, droped connections, search the BAWUG.com lists' for more information. Dont add antenna's to hardware that it is not FCC certifide for. That only makes more noise(thats bad) in the 2.4 ISM and makes it harder for a real wISP to fuction. Also the FCC gets upset and makes rules that prevent us from offering better service. ala 802.11a is very well stamped for indoor use only. If your going to be a service provider you have to have some form of QoS. WAP11's and cantenna's might be nice and cheap, work well today, but what about tomorrow? the day after?? You install crap, you get crap back. I would not use a cantenna for a paying customer. I am working the business model out for doing a community isp right now. They live out where they have no chance of getting dsl, 25 miles or so from town. I would rather pass them up then give them something thats little better then dialup. Remember 11b is much like a wired lan with a hub. 1 client talk's at a time, but the speed is much slower. 11b with cisco gear gets 6.5mbps. The cheaper hardware is lower, some doesnt do better then 2mbps. If you realy want to do this, get a consultant. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, keep it legal. CrackersnSoup