Where are the 'Construction Set' Games?

mbishop asks: "After reading an the article on games decreasing brain activity, I thought back through childhood to when there were an abundance of 'construction set' games. I owe much of my music education to 'Music Construction Set'. These games were unique in that you could not only save a creation, but you could compile it into a standalone program that someone else could play even if they didn't have the original software. Creation was very easy, no programming necessary, and fun. My guess is that these sorts of games do much to increase the brain activity of the player. What are the 'Construction Set' games of today? Is there still a market for them?"

"I know that most PC games today have editors where a player can create their own levels and share them but users still need the original software. Even worse, consoles, which have the larger market, don't have enough storage (except maybe for the XBox) and aren't open enough to encourage players to create their own games and share them."

C :I think I see mbishop's point. Legos are still alive and well, but I don't see as much evidence on these types of toys in today's TV commercials. It seems those commercials are more interested in pushing the latest licensed crap instead of pushing toys designed to stimulate your child's own imagination. Of course, a simple Google search may yield a result or two, but that still doesn't answer the real question. Computer-based sets, would be a nice alternative, but nothing beats the real thing where children can use their own hands to create something they can show their paernts. Where have all of the Heathkit's, the chemical experiment toys and the other types of "builder" sets gone, and are they due for a revival, soon?

Comments

Mods?

[mellifluous]

In many ways, I think that the mod community is a more grown-up version of kids using these types of games to build their own creations.

Re:Mods?

[_Sprocket_]

In many ways, I think that the mod community is a more grown-up version of kids using these types of games to build their own creations.

But that misses the point. The idea of, say, Halflife or Quake is not to build something but rather run around shooting at bots and other online players. Sure, to the right person its the basis for building a great hack. But it takes dedication and a steep learning curve to begin building. And it takes someone with a slightly different outlook to see Quake and think "build world" instead of "frag llamas".

Go back and re-read the description of Music Construction Set. Look at the other tittles listed in the link (Adventure Contruction Set and Pinball Construction Set). Mod-friendly engines, while very cool, are not the same.

Re:Mods?

[tgibbs]

And it takes someone with a slightly different outlook to see Quake and think "build world" instead of "frag llamas".

Of course it does. It just happens to be the very same outlook that led a few people to look at a rack of games and pick out "Adventure Construction Set" instead of "Final Fantasy."

Answering your own questions

[SirSlud]

> ... commercials are more interested in pushing the latest licensed crap ...

Which one is more profitable?

A license agnostic computer game where the value is in the interactivity .. high replay value, no need to go back to the store for a few years?

Or the uber-franchisable, horizontal-marketing-up-the-ying-yang licensed toy that does so little, you're practically forced into buying the next toy, which does a tiny bit more (now you can move his head! now you can move his foot! now he talks! buy this .. now he talks more!)

This is so obvious, its probably taught verbatim in business or marketing schools.

Re:Chemical Experiment Toys

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

My guess is the main reason you don't see more chemistry sets and similar 'toys' for children is fear of litigation.

I can remember when I was about 8 or 9, my grandmother bought me the Mr. Wizard's Chemistry Set, which came with real glassware and real chemicals.

Within a couple of years, I had progressed to more advanced chemistry sets that came with glass tubing and instruction on how to heat it up in an alcohol flame and bend your own custom glassware. Can you imagine the amount of disclaimers you would need to include in this day and age to protect yourself (legally) from children burning the house down or seriously injuring themselves?

I used to buy all the chemistry experiment books I could find at garage sales and I can remember seeing experiments involving mercury and other experiments that would make a corporate lawyer's hair turn white if you tried to distribute them today!

I think the legal issues combined with the 'if it doesn't use batteries or hook up to the TV, it's a sucky toy' feelings that are so prevalent today have killed off the toys that we all enjoyed when we were children.

Oh, and for what it's worth, because of my interest in chemistry, I grew up (well, I grew older!) and I got a job as a research scientist for a major medical diagnostics company, and I've been there for over 13 years now.

plus, the fall of household BASIC

[kisrael]

Another thing that has been lost is that computers no longer boot into BASIC...ok, stop laughing, I'm a little bit serious here. Home computers booting into BASIC, plus hobbyist magazines (some oriented at kids) I think were a great boon to budding programmers/designers in the early 1980s. While the Web has a huge host of new opportunites, it doesn't provide the ramp up the learning curve that BASIC did...it's relatively tough to make a decent graphical game with javascript/DHTML, and other languages are even more obscure for the total newbie.

Re:Unfortunately....

[SirSlud]

> What ever happened to natural selection? You know, the kid who swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own?

It's still in full effect. For instance, with an attitude like that (with the condition that you make it public to your partner or partner-to-be), you'll probably find it hard to find a decent compassionate female to procreate with. (Although not impossible, so a reply of "I do have a woman" will be met with indifference.)

Do you actually have any concept of how many more kids would die if swallowing a marble was a surefire death sentence? You probably have a close friend or two who ingested something at an early age that *could* have killed them at some point. (Would you be up to the task of finishing them off yourself, seeing as they clearly are not deserving of their lives?)

Fortunately, there's probably alot more natural selection in the sense that guys who publicly think like you do dont often find themselves heading up a family than kids dying off and thus 'cleansing' (your word, I'm sure) the gene pool.

Icidentally, if your frist sentence had even a shred of truth to it (not that products havnt been taken off the market, but any toy store still sells easy-to-swallow-tough-to-breathe toys), Lego would have been off the market long ago. Ironically, the true folks that supplied or made available these small bitty pieces to little kids, ie, the parents, usually get to try again with the gene-grafting fun of parenthood if they so choose.

As a parting shot, if you do have a kid, try and come up with a more life affirming lullabye for him/her than "Caveat Emptor" or "Dont be a stupid kid while I'm not tending over you", please? Or would (are) your kids be so smart as to never do anything that endangers themselves?

Comes down to market changes

[Dr_LHA]

Back in the golden age of Construction set games - the 80s (I remember fondly The Quill, The Graphic Adventure Creator, HURG and The Shoot-em-up Construction Set) computer users were a different breed. Most people who bought computers first started doing funny things like "Learning BASIC" and programming the computer. That's how computers worked - and why you bought them, they were a hobbyist activity. So it's not surprising that the sort of computer owner who dabbles in BASIC (but is not a hardcore programmer) would like these sorts of creative games.

These days computers are pretty much an appliance like a fridge or TV to most people. Email arrives, they look at porn by clicking an icon, they accept whatever Mr Gates feeds them. It's not surprising that the creative aspect of gaming has all but been lost.

Recent exceptions to this rule I can remember is "RPG Maker" for the Playstation - and I think there's a sequel coming for the PS2. Neverwinter Nights also has a nice campaign builder utility.

Re:Chemical Experiment Toys

[Turing Machine]

My guess is the main reason you don't see more chemistry sets and similar 'toys' for children is fear of litigation. /I.

I think you're exactly right. A couple of years back I was looking for a chemistry set for my nieces and nephews, so that they could experience the hours of fun that I had as a kid.

The only "chemistry set" I could find wasn't even worthy of the name. The outside of the box proudly proclaimed "No glass! No open flames! No toxic chemicals!". I pointed this out to my wife with the comment "No fun!".

Re:Everything Becomes Quake

[Kintanon]

Well, you have to remember that well thought out, well designed modules take WAY more time than any of the others. So they are going to be the last thing to surface. Also, many people with well done worlds that could be put into NWN also have real world gaming going on and may be dividing their time among several other activities. I for one have a well developed game world that might end up as a NWN module, but only if I can be assured that enough of my real world players will get NWN that I can run campaigns with my friends online.

So good modules will come, but it may take quite a while.

Kintanon