Slashdot Mirror


Open Source, Real Media Mega-player?

chill writes "CNN is reporting "RealNetworks on Monday will unveil a new open source version of its streaming media software that supports multiple file formats for audio and video, including those that use Microsoft's Windows Media technology." and "RealNetworks did not formally license the ability to offer Windows Media software, but instead re-created the technology based on data streams sent between the server and player software, The New York Times reported. A Microsoft representative told the newspaper that the company would need to determine whether RealNetworks licensed the software before taking action. " I can't wait to see the actual license." Update: 07/22 19:10 GMT by T : The software can be downloaded from the Helix site, if you're interested.

11 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Part Open Source, Part Not by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Informative

    About the RealNetworks Release
    Bruce Perens
    Free Software Evangelist
    22-July-2002

    RealNetworks is announcing today that some of their software will be
    released as Open Source or Free Software. While RealNetworks is making a
    significant contribution to Open Source, today's release does not include
    the "crown jewels" -- their "codecs", the encoding and decoding software
    for their proprietary RealAudio and RealVideo formats. I will go into more
    detail regarding what they are proposing to release, and when, in this
    message.

    I'd also like to say what my role is in this. It is not to endorse, but
    to explain what's going on from an Open Source perspective. Some of the
    pieces announced today will be Open Source, but many will not be. Thus,
    I can't fully approve of what is going on. I will continue to lobby
    RealNetworks to follow today's step by going fully open, and I urge you to
    continue to use fully open codecs in preference to the RealNetworks ones.

    It was entertaining to see the first sentence of the invitation that
    RealNetworks sent to some of the press:

    > On Monday at 10am in SF, Eric Raymond, Bruce Perrins, Brian Bellendorf
    > etc. will all be attending a press conference with Real Networks and 30
    > other top industry companies for a significant industry announcement.

    I am flattered by their enthusiasm, especially since I'd told them
    repeatedly that I'd not be making an endorsement. This shows that
    RealNetworks may actually be able to deal with the Open Source community
    on the community's own terms. That will be essential if a real partnership
    is to come of today's announcement.

    So, what is RealNetworks proposing? They plan to release code in 90
    days. Some of the details of that code, including what parts are included
    in the release and how they are licensed, may change before then.

    RealNetworks "client engine", the thing that lives in the desktop or the
    web browser and drives the client half of their codec, will be available
    under a license that is derived from the Apple Public Source License, but
    with goals much closer to the GNU General Public License. The license text
    includes a patent grant. Like the APSL and the NPL licenses, it grants
    RealNetworks a right to relicense your code under any license of their choice.
    So it is unlike the GPL in that it gives one party more rights than all
    others. This license has yet to be approved by the Open Source Initiative
    board, or accepted by the Free Software Foundation, or even fully reviewed by
    yours truly. It may have to be modified before it is worthy of acceptance by
    the community.

    The Open Source client engine will probably include:

    > - RTSP/RTP/RTCP/SDP network playback
    > - UDP support
    > - Local file playback
    > - Single source A/V
    > - A/V data type interface
    > - file format interface
    > - some A/V codec support (TBD; standards-based, probably MP3 and 3GPP
    > codecs)

    I have an even longer list of other features that the Open Source client
    _may_ include, which I can't show you until they decide. On the list of
    functions that most likely won't be included, besides the codecs, there's
    a lot of utility and user-interface code.

    So, we're getting some network protocols that go on top of IP and UDP,
    and do their best to provide continuous playback despite the fact that
    the Internet doesn't guarantee throughput or latency. On top of that are
    file formats and data objects, and other pieces necessary to make an Open
    Source player for some already-open file formats. It is likely that many
    of the client pieces will be applicable to servers and encoders as well,
    although RealNetworks is not placing their server and "encoder engine"
    in Open Source. Combining the Open Source player with RealNetworks
    proprietary codecs will produce a player for the RealAudio and RealVideo
    formats on new platforms where no player existed before.

    Perhaps the greatest beneficiary of RealNetworks contribution could
    be the Ogg Vorbis audio format. Ogg is a fully Open Source codec,
    unencumbered by patents or royalty payment requirements, which
    offers audio quality comparable to, or better then, its proprietary
    competition. The Ogg encoder and servers, not just the client, are
    available as Open Source. The addition of RealNetworks network protocols
    and other utilities might make Ogg even better, and might facilitate the
    inclusion of Ogg as an option in RealNetworks proprietary products.

    RealNetworks server and "encoder engine", without the actual codecs,
    will be under a "community source" license. This means that source code
    will be disclosed to people who sign an agreement, and those people will
    get a lot less than the full set of rights that come with Open Source
    licensing. Since other streaming servers and encoders are already fully
    Open Source, we can't expect the Open Source community to have much to
    do with this part of RealNetworks code. However, community source does
    make life easier for RealNetworks partners, whose business depends on
    this code and who might not have had source code until now.

    The RealAudio and RealVideo codecs will be available in compiled form, as
    proprietary software that can be linked into a larger product. Again, no joy
    in the Free Software camp. However, these codecs will be available for use
    along with various Open Source pieces that Real is releasing, and thus it will
    be easier to for third parties to produce a half-proprietary Real-format player
    under Linux and on other operating systems where one is not supported today.

    Why is Real doing this? Obviously, they are under pressure from
    Microsoft's Media Player, and would like to prevent that product
    from achieving market domination. Increasing open-ness is a weapon in
    that battle, because a perception of open-ness will make more people
    consider RealNetworks products as standards rather than just products.
    But RealNetworks may not be able to afford to be open enough - their
    revenue today depends on licensing fees for the use of their software, and
    unless they can change their business model somewhat, it will be difficult
    for them to achieve a real partnership with the Open Source community.
    That community has little to gain by replacing Microsoft's proprietary
    audio format with RealNetworks still-proprietary audio format. The Free
    Software folks will continue to develop Ogg Vorbis and other solutions,
    although perhaps in a way that is more compatible with RealNetworks
    proprietary software. Thus, I consider todays announcement to be only a
    first step for RealNetworks, with additional steps necessary if they are
    to succeed. On behalf of the Open Source and Free Software developers, I
    hope to be able to help RealNetworks take those additional steps.

    Respectfully Submitted

    Bruce Perens

    1. Re:Part Open Source, Part Not by buzzdecafe · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Reg has digested this stuff here:

      http://www.theregus.com/content/6/25690.html

    2. Re:Part Open Source, Part Not by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Informative
      The answer from Real's president was rather confusing. It sounds as if they have reverse engineered Microsoft's transport and not their codec. I'll follow up.

      Bruceg

  2. The Register also has an article about it by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  3. Re:All I care to know is by mmurphy_helix · · Score: 4, Informative

    The open source pieces will be released under the RealNetworks Public Source License (RPSL). We have posted the license on the Helix site at http://www.helixcommunity.org. We will be sending it to the OSI for certification shortly, and we're looking for feedback now.

    --
    ----------
    Mark Murphy, Helix Community Manager
    CollabNet, Inc.
    http://www.helixcommunity.org
  4. Real's web Site for this release opens. by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Informative
    See helxicommunity.org

    Bruce

  5. Marketing hype != OSS by tshoppa · · Score: 5, Informative

    So far, what Real has shown is marketing hype. There is no open source software until they give us the source. And as Bruce and others have pointed out, they're only open-sourcing Microsoft's codecs, not their own; this is not the spirit nor the letter of open-source!

  6. No codecs to be released by benwaggoner · · Score: 4, Informative

    They aren't releasing any codecs. Streaming servers don't parse the underlying video data, they just (well, that's a misuse of the word "just" - it's hard to do right) turn the file into packets, and try to make sure that as many arrive to the client on time as possible.

    For example, today's RealServer can stream QuickTime files, and they certainly don't have source to the Sorenson codecs.

  7. This is not analogous to the Vivendi complaint... by casio282 · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...as their claim is that the BnetD developers actually *copied* portions of Blizzard's code rather than reverse engineering and rewriting it. They have dropped the DMCA component of the complaint, the latest (amended) version of which is here.

    IANAL, but it seems that honest to goodness reverse engineering is still legally safe, for the time being.

    --

    :wq
  8. Re:Player? by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 4, Informative
    I saw no mention of open sourcing the player...
    "RealNetworks will begin offering Helix's client source code within 90 days and then release the server source code in "subsequent months," the company said. Details will be further outlined on a special Web site for Helix developers."
  9. Thanks! by robla · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'd like to thank Bruce for all of his help in distilling what we are offering. Bruce was in our press conference with his 802.11-equipped laptop helping to put out accurate information from a trusted source. We hope we can still win him over (as well as the rest of the community) when it comes to the value of our offering, which we think is quite substantial.

    Additionally, I'd like to thank Eric Raymond and Brian Behlendorf for also being here today, and for their valuable feedback in making sure we're doing the Right Thing(tm). We've also discussed many aspects of this with Emmett Plant and Jack Moffitt of Xiph.org/Vorbis fame as well as Tim O'Reilly and the folks at O'Reilly & Associates, and we're very excited about the opportunities on that horizon. Last but not least, I'd like to thank CollabNet for their incredible help on the launch, and we're looking forward to working with Mark Murphy and the rest of the crew to make Helix into a success.

    With regards to the business model, I feel I should respond. This is a very deliberately measured approach to joining the open source community. We have a responsibility to our shareholders to continue to make a profit over the long haul. In the short term, this means withholding some technology to continue forward without drastically altering our current business model.

    In the long term, we will be thinking very deeply about how to resolve the business paradox of making money while giving stuff away. It's not new territory for us, but this is certainly a new application of that expertise. Bruce, Eric, Mark Donovan (@RealNetworks) and I had a very interesting conversation at lunch about this, and I'd like to continue this conversation with the them and the rest of the community at OSCON this week.

    At any rate, we're very excited about this foray into what's a brave new world for our company. As with any company shifting away from a mosty proprietary software model, I imagine we'll have the occasional faux pas and hiccup. However, I'm incredibly excited about the step we've made, and
    hopeful that we can have a fruitful partnership with the community (and if someone can come up with a non-nausiating word for "synergistic"...I'll use that too!)

    Rob Lanphier
    Program Manager -- Interoperability
    RealNetworks