Slashdot Mirror
Software Packaging Formats for Windows?
darkdepeche asks: "My department is attempting to standardize on a software packaging format for the majority of our clients (which generally use Windows 2000/XP desktops). I've been very impressed with the .deb/apt system that Debian and some other Linux flavours use, I wonder if any other slashdotters use something similar to this on a Windows platform? Using the traditional Installer is a possibility but the tools are cumbersome and quite expensive. We need something that would handle several hundred applications, hotfixes, service packs, and keep history for them all. Has anyone else worked on a project like this?" InstallShield can be more complex than it needs to be and can be very hard to use. Have any of you come across an installer for Windows that is easy to use, can uninstall whatever has been installed, can manage the registry and also (maybe) have versioning controls similar to what is offered by .dpkg/Apt?
o/~ Join us now and share the software
an installer for Windows that is easy to use, can uninstall whatever has been installed, can manage the registry and also (maybe) have versioning controls
The Nullsoft SuperPIMP Install System does three out of four...and it's quite possible that you could script the versioning yourself. Check it out.
(A few years ago, I was employed by WISE Solutions.)
Installing on Windows is not just a matter of ease. It is also a matter of knowing what works, and what doesn't work on all platforms. Hacking the registry is easy, *knowing when* to hack it is not so easy. InstallShield can be very complex, but it allows great flexibility. WISE is generally easier to use, and generally has what you need.
After seeing countless scripts, I can say that most people (of whose scripts I've seen) do not know what is going on. Luckily they used a tool, or else who knows what sort of damage they would have caused.
Considering a decent tool costs less than one thousand dollars, it is well worth the time you will save learning how to install files. Also, considering the main tools keep up with Microsoft rules (usually) there are less "gotchas" to worry about.
Both WISE and InstallShield have strong userbases. You can easily tap into a lot of knowledge with those tools.
Have you read my journal today?
That would be another totally free option. You can get it at http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php. It creates installers with the new Windows Installer look, consisting of one single Setup.exe file. Plus, some third party extensions add scripting capabilities (http://www.wintax.nl/isx) and an install builder IDE (http://www.bhenden.org/istool). Many consider this to be the best free install builder, rivaling even some commercial ones.
Of course, it doesn't address versioning or online updating. But any of the systems I've seen seemed proprietary and bound to a particular product--check out Microsoft's Windows Update, for example. It would be nice if someone came up with a complete solution, including a back-end server (or maybe FTP or HTTP based) and a client-side app that was installed along with your app and knew enough about it to do a live update. Plus, of course, an admin tool for the back-end to manage all the bits there.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/howi tworks/management/installer.asp
I mean, really. MSI has got what you need. And if you use Visual Studio, then, well, DUH. It lets you remotely install stuff... it helps you manage your installs... it integrates with Terminal Services. Really. It's the Offical Microsoft Answer to RPM. sheesh!
I really don't think that is what he/she is looking for. I'm thinking he wants a more "remote" install and continous update type application. In that case, I would suggest symantec's 'live update' code. You can (we did) license it from them, and rebrand it to fit your needs. It's is constently researched and updated. Security holes are pached in hours of notification, and we haven't had a problem with them in more than a year.
Actually, I'm inclined to think this is one of the better Ask Slashdot questions out there lately. When you have a large userbase of installed Windows machines, it would be nice to have a consistant way to manage them all, in an apt-get, software/windows update sort of fashion - software installation and updates, and system updates, patches, fixes, and drivers, combined with an intelligent packaging system, would be a great product.
Hmm... I smell money-making opportunity...
--Dan
PS: Just before I hit post, I mentioned this money-making opportunity to a friend of mine, who pointed out that MS has had a product called the Systems Management Server out for about four years now, that will do exactly this - system and application installation and updating. Probably works well too, up until the whole thing goes to hell. Yay for Norton Ghost.
Tivoli's Software Distribution (now part of the Tivoli Configuration Manager) system works pretty nice. It integrates nicely with Tivoli inventory so you can do things like install a certain software package to all computers with more than 300mhz, 128megs of ram, and windows 2000. It supports checking dll versions, variables, package versioning, and package dependencies.
It even has a "Transactional" system to allow updating of core system files that are locked.
It is also cross-platforms from Windows to Linux to HP-UX to AS400. Pretty much every platform imaginable is supported.
I've been working with it non-stop for the last few weeks and I've been pretty impressed with it.
Oh yeah, and call Maryville Technologies if you need any help designing and implementing Tivoli infrastructure and packages. *shameless plug*
Ian
Could be worth a look.
(Used by some open source projects, that's where I saw it first...)
Seconded on all those points, particularly the professional look of the installer. What really sold me on this installer was the fact that it runs entirely from a script file, GUI is optional, and you compile your script and program resources into a single squashed .exe. This makes it ideal to run from build scripts, and even better the setup compiler runs under Wine, so sending out frequent releases from a Linux development machine is easy.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
I've used InstallAnywhere for the couple Window projects I've done. These were Java apps and the program didn't care. The beauty of it is that it is cross platform. It can generate installers for Windows, Unix and Mac. They have a limited free version and the sales guys give up after a couple non-responses. The full version isn't too expensive either. Fully scriptable. Very slick.
Nullsoft's NSIS is great and it took me no time to learn. I've been using it for ages and it works perfect. It is much smaller and faster the your "WISE" installer, and it is a hell of a lot less expensive. This is especially important if you are going to standardize on it!
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
Actually, it's probably one of the better kept secrets in the installer world, although, judging by the number of downloads on their website, it's quite popular. Plus, doing a Google Groups search on installers returns lots of references to Inno.
This makes sense from a managing-customer-expectations view: They likely want a working copy now and they (and you!) don't want to be involved in getting online, finding out it's stale software, long downloads, corrupted downloads, etc. Let the installer install, that's nasty enough.
Many apps offer a menu option that fires off a URL event for update-checking. The web-browser opens up the page and there you are. Some applications are clever and fire off a URL event with the version number already encoded so you get your version-check right away, automatigically answer is there more or not. Others make you look up your own version number and then figure out what your choices are. And some take the opportunity to include the serial number and such "for the record."
An alternative is a polite version checker that (with permission!) automatically checks for updates every so often, say two weeks, or on demand. If there's no new version it quietly shuts down and nobody was disturbed. Or if it was a manual check it gives a nothing-new response. If there is something new it gives a response and supplies a link to the appropriate web-page/download/whatever.
Of course any such transaction should be well documented and easily interpreted so folks know exactly what is being 'phoned home' and don't start getting the willies. This may mean a larger transaction then strictly neccessary but keeping it human-interpretable is likely valuable in a suspicious world.
So with all of that said I'd like to point folks to one existing implementation: Simple Internet Version Control Protocol. I've no connection whatsoever with it beyond having a product or two on my machine that use it but it's always seemed to me to be a well-thought-out bit of code and after 7 years of in-production-use likely well-tested. Oh, and I may have met the author years ago (Chris, were you @neu.edu?)
It does version-control, also does anonymous user counts, it's free in all senses, there's code examples, etc. Here's their summary:
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.