Amateur Mars Satellite

Hobbyspacer writes "The German AMSAT-DL group recently announced formal approval of the Phase 5-A project to send a spacecraft to Mars in the 2007 or 2009 launch window. The spacecraft will use the same structure as AO-40 (formerly Phase 3-D) that was launched into earth orbit in the fall of 2000. Like AO-40 the Mars probe will piggyback on an Ariane 5 launch and use the same 400 N propulsion system. (I expect they will solve the problem that caused the engine misfiring that nearly destroyed the spacecraft.) The Phase 3-E project was also approved to follow up AO-40 and to test various techniques and technologies for the Mars mission. The document P5A-to-Mars!(712k pdf) describes the technical challenges and possible solutions for such an ambitious mission. AO-40 cost several million dollars and the Mars probe should cost considerably more, requiring they obtain funds outside of AMSAT members and the ham radio community. The long list, though, of spectacular contributions made by AMSAT to the development of micro sats and space communications gives the program high credibility."

Comments

A big leap?

[Devil's BSD]

I think this is kind of a big leap from just a amateur rocket in space earlier this year. What happened to an actual geosynchronous satelite, a lunar probe, or even an amateur manned space shot? I think they should plan these first before they leap into such a project.

Re:A big leap?

[lostchicken]

The satellite is the easy part. The booster is the tricky bit.

AMSAT groups have been putting satellites in space for years now from the tiny and simple to the complex and large (Oscar Phase IIId). It's like the difference between building aircraft and avionics. Boosters and satellites are two completely different animals.

This probe will be on a commercial booster in a series with a well proven track record.

Re:A big leap?

[isaac]

What happened to an actual geosynchronous satelite, a lunar probe, or even an amateur manned space shot?

Remember that we are talking "amateur" as in "amateur radio," not in the more general context of "non-professional." AMSAT as an organization is concerned with launching satellites for the use of amateur radio operators, not with putting a man in space or a probe on the moon.

I might also point out that the reason why there are no AMSATs in geostationary orbit has more to do with the fact that (useful) geostationary orbital slots are a scarce resource than anything else. AMSAT 3-D was launched into a geosynchronous transfer orbit (presumably as a piggyback on something else going to geosync) but its final orbit is highly elliptical, a useful orbit that is not at all scarce.

-Isaac

Re:A big leap?

[Bruce Perens]

Years? Try 4 decades.

Bruce

how can i sign up?

[thedbp]

i want nothing more than an amatuer, grass-roots, half-assed spare time devotion created rocket to blast me away from this dirty goddamn planet full of hippies!

Re:how can i sign up?

[Tablizer]

(* PHBs too, but at least the PHBs can GET us to Mars. *)

At 400% markup or overruns

Contamination and porly funded projects

[Speedy8]

While all of these projects are cool, I wonder if the cheaper projects will have problems with lower standards of cleanliness and lead to contamination of Mars, possibly leading to the destruction of any curent life on Mars. After all Scientists have found that there was contamination on the first lunar lander that touched down on the Moon on 1967.

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[Tablizer]

I wonder if the cheaper projects will have problems with lower standards of cleanliness and lead to contamination of Mars

Just use a PC speaker and special software

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[Skyshadow]

You point isn't without merit, but it seems worth pointing out that any Martian lifeforms should have a tremendous advantage in their native environment.

The real problem with contamination would probably be that we'd risk a false-positive on the who alien life thing.

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[Speedy8]

That may be true, but we have a track record of killing off the indigeounus life forms we meet, dating way back, even as far as invasion of the America's with disease.

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[Speedy8]

There are likely no common species between Earth and Mars, so even if the probe is contaminated by any terrestrial bacteria/diseases, they will not be designed to infect or otherwise compromise Martian species. I think you are limiting the scope of the analogy a little too far. The bacteria and disease was able to kill off the common species becase they have a similar envrnments to live in, the human host. While Martian environment is differant to most of Earth, it does have simularities to many places on Earth and we have many single cell organisms that thrive in the conditions simular to that on Mars and may, very easily drowned out the current populations.

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[guttentag]

Filed at 7:08 p.m. MSNST, August 5, 2033
AMERICAN QUARTER, MARS RESEARCH BASE (MSNAP) -- MSASA researchers have discovered what appears to be a 2012-model German Sony Aibo in a region of Plateau 148 that was previously believed unexplored.

The artificial dog had a spent CO2 cannister strapped to its back and flexible solar panels in place of floppy ears.

"Basically, we're thinking this is probably the work of some amateur who thought it would be fun to illegally land on Mars before we got here," Mars Station Director Johnson said. "We are currently swabbing the dog for fingerprints and have been assured the full cooperation of the German police force in bringing this criminal to justice."

According to initial reports, researchers first thought they had encountered an intelligent extra-terrestrial life form but lost interest when it didn't seem to understand English. A week later, a team carrying a German exchange scientist encountered the Aibo and was able to make it sit up, beg, and sing the Sony Anthem in German.

The minimum penalty for sending your own property to another planet without MSASA permission is 3 years confinement on the roving Lunar Prison, which is designed to remain on the dark side of the moon at all times.

"I'd like to remind everyone," Director Johnson said, "that you can't go around sending things to other planets. This isn't a joke. Leave this serious business of interplanetary travel to the professionals."

Re:Contamination and porly funded projects

[Bruce Perens]

First, the thing will get to spend at least a year in space before it orbits Mars. Vaccumm and extreme temperatures are very good at sterilizing anything left living. Second, it's not going to land.

But I do remember those pictures of Bdale without the face mask in Kouru. It seems they didn't have one that fit him.

Bruce

Guess I've been an Amateur too long.

[MsWillow]

It took me three times, reading the summary to realize that they actually *are* planning a mission to the *planet* Mars, and that they are not putting up a bird to help out the Military Affiliate Radio System, aka MARS. It still makes more sense that it's a MARS bird - who'll be *on* Mars to use it? But there is (admittedly slight) a chance that this could prove useful here around Earth, if all Hades breaks loose with terrorists.

73 de NNN0WYZ

Amateur != neophyte

[pongo000]

Seems like there's a lot of misconceptions about what the word "amateur" means. Amateur radio is named for its non-commercial nature (amateur as opposed to professional), and has nothing to do with level of competence. There are a great number of amateur radio operators who are experts in their fields of endeavor, and can hardly be considered "amateur" in terms of competence. Here's a list of some of the more famous amateurs. I see a Nobel Prize winner in physics on there, which I'd hardly consider "amateur."

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

And to add fuel to the fire - by definition all new ideas are proposed by amateurs. It's only after things have setteled down, do the professionals stands atop the pioneers and pronouce themselves clever.

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

That's why I made a distinction between prisioner of stupid laws, and a 'criminal prisoner'. We're an odd socioty - we criminialise silly things (pot, prostitition) and we give free reign to evil people (murderers and theives). It's a unjust socioty that imprissones a pot-head longer than the CEO of Enron: you'll get longer time for making love for money then running down a family with an SUV.

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

Sombody's been reading a bit too much Chomsky.

But hey, if you like the stuipd, lazy and criminal - then keep at it. You're doing a pretty good job at the first.

As for over-breeders beeing in 'need' - thats false. They are gready to over-breed and expect everybody else to pay the bill.

This will really piss you off - I *enjoy* giving money to Planned Parenthood. I know every doller I spend will save me money in the long run.

You posted AC because the label fit.

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

My main complaint with over-breading, is that all or our environmental and scocial problems stem, mostly, from overpopulation. It's bad enough that people are breading like bacteria, but the class of people that expect me to *pay* for them to over-bread really piss me off. As if their little crack baby is a blessing to this world.

Once the little vermen are in the world - I do think we should shower them with education, prosperity and opertunity. It's the only chance we have to stop the cycle of stupidity, squalor and greed.

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

A neet thing about colonisieng space too is that if some nutball decided to take out the world with a bang, that at least there's hope for humanity.

Unfortunaly, it's easier to colonise the open seas than space right now - hopefully things will change soon. Working fusion reactors would help a lot right now..

Re:Amateur != neophyte

[zulux]

You'll have to wait for a lot of ignorant people to die before fusion gets the funding it needs.


Well, thats easy! We just set up giant pits filled with spikes - put a few signs around stating "Warning, Giant Pit Filled With Spikes. Stay Away!"

All rational people will take a look, shrug, and back away - the stupid will, of course, fall in. ;)

Calling Mars...

[SEWilco]

"CQ Mars...CQ Mars..."
"Mars is on the other side of the Sun, wait a few months"
"I'm working the bounce off Saturn."
"Oh. Any luck?"
"Won't know until morning. Light speed delay."

Re:Ariane 5?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not a French launcher, it's a European Launcher. 30% of the parts are coming France and 30% from Germany.

Circle around the pole

[BlowCat]

Have you considered the fact that "the roving prison" doesn't have to be on the equator? You should be ashamed :-)

Re:Circle around the pole

[dylan_-]

Have you considered the fact that "the roving prison" doesn't have to be on the equator? You should be ashamed :-)

Won't work. Think how to stay out of sunlight on the earth for three years....would staying at the North/South Pole work? Would circling around it work?

Re:Contamination? Howabout colonization?

[BlowCat]

What if the new habitants adapt to extreme cold, populate the polar areas and lock the vital resources (water, CO2) on the poles, and thus hinder further attempt to redistribute those resources closer to the equator, where the climat is more palatable to humans?

If you nuke a polar cap with CO2, you could get more CO2 in the air. If you nuke a polar cap covered by lichens, you could end up with carbon dust on the poles and CO in the air.

Re:A COMPARISON OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS

[Lars T.]

Germans: We Sent Satellites to Mars and Invented the Computer

Americans: You Invented Rap Music and Carjacking

Re:A COMPARISON OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS

[Lars T.]

It's less stupid than its parent. Did you write that?

Re:Computers invented to decode the Enigma code

[Lars T.]

Konrad Zuse. Before the British heard of the Enigma.