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California Tracks Everyone Using Toll Transponders
obtuse writes "Direct monitoring of traffic sounds pretty cool, but some people don't want their toll transponders tracked. They aren't installing direct driver tracking for law enforcement now, but the collected data could be subpoenaed. Of course, anyone who didn't want to be tracked could just put it in the glovebox anyway, so they won't be catching clever felons or tracking real paranoiacs."
What I worry about it that leading to civil uses -- what if my wife's lawyer got records showing I was sneaking over the Golden Gate to visit my mistress (expensive booty call with the new tolls, BTW).
I wish there were some reasonable way to insure against a slippery slope. I would prefer to live in a country where it's easy to catch criminals without sliding into surveilling lawful citizens.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
The way to pay for this fancy new traffic monitoring is clearly to send tickets to everyone that goes from point A to point B in less time than it should take per the posted speed limit. Considering that we already have automatic red light and speeding traffic tickets (no police intervention required!), this seems like the next step for the "coddle you to death" bureaucrats to take.
Lots of petrified grits
I think, basically, that's what most people want.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I think the idea of tags to track traffic if used for purely congestion purposes, and helping ems, etc finding the quickest way to some place, but not if able to be used for tracking individuals. Just make tags that everyone is required by law to have in their vehicles, but make them with no ID tags at all. Each transponder will basically be saying "yes there is a tag here" rather than "tag 13489023094 is here". It would allow better traffic flow dynamics with real-time data on how dense traffic is, while keeping anonymity.
Being able to be tracked, in any form, isn't a good thing for innocent people. Maybe (BIG maybe) for conviced child molestors, murderors, etc it'd be OK to have a unique ID, and police trackable, but for the innocent (remember innocent until proven guilty you big-brother types?), there should be NO means of finding them, even if they are a suspect in a crime. Police shouldn't have access to that kind of data on normal law-abiding people. And making the tags themselves "generic" will make it impossible for them to know.
Erioll
If you have a wife that would put a Satellite tracker on you, she deserves to get cheated on. With multiple, ugly, crack-whores.
Trust me or don't marry me.
Bike.
Wouldn't you expect that manufacturers will build cars with permanent VIN transponders, required for car inspection, eventually?
Project leaders at the Metropolitan Transportation Commission say they're not interested in the movements of individual drivers, and have gone to great lengths to protect privacy, including encrypting the serial number of each transponder as its location is transmitted. They promise to keep this data separate from the identities of FasTrak users and other information needed to make automatic monthly deductions from their bank or credit card accounts.
"We're not tracking or trying to follow any individual car, just the overall traffic flow," TravInfo project manager Michael Berman said. "We're really trying to bend over backward to make sure we don't know."
But it feels like they are spying on me...
Driving is a privilege, not a right. In order to gain that privilege you must expect to give up some privacy in order to protect the public.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
Quite simply, any jurisdiction that even has a fraction of a brain will not use an electronic toll system to issue tickets. If they do, people will stop using the electronic toll system. It's just that simple. The toll authority has just as much of an interest in having people use the electronic toll system as people do in using it to save time. More people using the electronic system means fewer people employed taking tolls and less traffic. They won't jeopardize that.
As far as tracking people using the transponders, I don't know that it's that bad a thing. Like they said, you can always avoid tracking by putting your transponder in a foil bag, and they're even going to provide them upon request (It's not a pain in the ass. I have two transponders, and they're only on the windshield when I am going through a tollbooth, because I have a convertible). That should show goodwill, at the very least. And California does have some of the worst traffic in the country. Any additional info on how it moves (or doesn't) is probably going to go a long way towards making it better.
-Todd
"The details of my life are quite inconsequential..."
Here's the solution:
For people here in VA that have to take the Dulles Toll Road to work each day, some have to pass through 2 tolls (start and end). If you have one of those transponders, only use it once on your trip (i.e. pay the quarter to get on, and use the transponder to exit, or vice versa). That way, getting your average speed would be considerably more of a hassle (if not impossible).
Or just ditch the thing entirely and stock up on quarters.
you're not free to break the law fuckhead. the 55 mph is the law, its not the law only if you get caught.
four-oh-four
Every single time any government agency says this, they simply mean "Untill you get used to it, and ignore it's existence. We'll gladly start tracking you once we think we can get away with it"
you're not free to break the law...
I've recently been reflecting on the purpose of the law. I agree, as part of a civil society we choose to give up our freedom to do things that are against 'the law'. Why? Well, to secure Life, Liberty, and Property, according to the founders of this country.
So, why do we have laws imposing a 55mph speed limit? To preserve life, as such speed limits theoretically reduce the number of innocent people transformed into road pizza by some confused drivers who might otherwise confuse small-town roads with the European Autobahn.
So again, back to my original point, and I'll pretend I'm a Californian for a moment. Why should the State Patrol be allowed to use this transponder data to catch speeders? Well, if it can be proven to save lives without an unreasonable cost in tax dollars (and yes, you can put a price tag on a life, just ask any insurance company), then I would be for it. If, on the other hand, it's just to force people into obedience of the law for the law's sake, then it starts to be an abuse of freedom.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
Actually, you opt-in when you decide to use the gadget. You can opt out by turning off the service/not using it.
More like, if we choose to wear a device that broadcasts our information in order to make transactions faster and easier, we shouldn't necessarily expect that that information won't have other uses in the aggregate.
It's like if you shout your phone number across a crowded room at a friend, and then get mad at a stranger for hearing it. You make a choice what information to make public; but once you do, you don't always get to choose what happens to it.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
You have an opt-out feature on all of those items. Just don't use them. None of them are essential.
When it comes to private companies selling my personal information to make more money, so that other companies can direct-market at me and make more money, opting out makes sense. But when you're talking about them wanting to be able to find a phone that dialed 911, well... that's often my biggest fear; that I'll get to the phone in time to call, but not be able to tell them my location fast enough. Right now, they have no way of finding me unless I tell them. (If you call from a landline, the information automatically comes up, and there's no way to block it. You also can't block Caller ID information from showing up when you call a toll-free number, because if you're calling just to run up their bill, they can seek restitution.)
You're talking about the government (you vote for them, unless you're silly enough to complain about them and then stay home on election day like it's somebody else's problem), not private companies. They're a non-profit entity. You (and a few million of your friends) can fire them from their jobs. If you're afraid of government abuse, keep your eye out, and make sure your representatives know your concerns. Heck, sponsor an initiative referendum for a citizen's oversight group, if you really don't trust them with this info.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
In the future there might not always be those people working in the toll booths, and this sets a bad precedent.
Take the new 407 Highway in Toronto Ontario. It is completely automated. It uses transponders, and if you don't have a trasponder it snaps pictures of your license plates. There is no stopping anywhere to pay tolls, whether or not you have a transponder.
So while you may think its an option to just use the pay booths right now, wait a few years down the road until your state goes completely automated like Toronto, and then you won't have a choice at all. Don't let the precedents be set now.