California Tracks Everyone Using Toll Transponders

obtuse writes "Direct monitoring of traffic sounds pretty cool, but some people don't want their toll transponders tracked. They aren't installing direct driver tracking for law enforcement now, but the collected data could be subpoenaed. Of course, anyone who didn't want to be tracked could just put it in the glovebox anyway, so they won't be catching clever felons or tracking real paranoiacs."

Comments

I can live with that.

[Skyshadow]

I don't have a big problem with toll records being accessible in criminal cases (aka, by subpeona). Many criminals *are* stupid, so if this helps catch them then I'm happy. Besides, I have no reasonable expectation of privacy on a bridge (which is why I try to keep the nose-picking to a minimum).

What I worry about it that leading to civil uses -- what if my wife's lawyer got records showing I was sneaking over the Golden Gate to visit my mistress (expensive booty call with the new tolls, BTW).

I wish there were some reasonable way to insure against a slippery slope. I would prefer to live in a country where it's easy to catch criminals without sliding into surveilling lawful citizens.

Re:I can live with that.

[curril]

Your concern over tracking anti-government demonstrations is a good and realistic example, however. Here in Denver, Colorado we recently had a major flack over the police keeping a surveillance database on people people who attended demonstrations. While such behavior is 'legal', having police follow you home has a definite chilling effect on freedom of speech.

The fact is that government surveillance is 'harmless' for law-abiding citizens except in rare cases where a person in a position of trust abuses it. But that presumes that the laws are popular and just. For example, a significant percentage of the US population flagrantly violates various drug control laws. You could argue that better enforcement of these laws would be a good thing, or you could argue that these laws are unrepresentive and enforcement would result in the unfair subjugation of a large minority. Feel free substitute the hot-button issue of your choice, such as abortion, sexuality, race, etc.

A few other "dramatic" possibilities:

• Crime ring breaks or bribes its way into the database to rob your home while you are away.
  
• Coincidence and bad luck place you and a suspected terrorist at the same place at the same time often enough that you get flagged as a possible sympathizer.
  
• Tracking becomes so common that it becomes compulsory, evading it becomes suspicious or even illegal.
  

Automatic tickets coming up soon

[guacamolefoo]

The way to pay for this fancy new traffic monitoring is clearly to send tickets to everyone that goes from point A to point B in less time than it should take per the posted speed limit. Considering that we already have automatic red light and speeding traffic tickets (no police intervention required!), this seems like the next step for the "coddle you to death" bureaucrats to take.

Re:It could be cracked?

[Skyshadow]

Not to be contrarian, but the difference is that, in telling you her name, profession and travel habits, she's controlling the release of her information.

I think, basically, that's what most people want.

You asked for it!

[teamhasnoi]

Many rental fleets and big rig companies already use satellites and global positioning systems to track cars and cargo. Companies are promoting similar products to consumers who want to track their kids, Alzheimer's patients or cheating spouses.

If you have a wife that would put a Satellite tracker on you, she deserves to get cheated on. With multiple, ugly, crack-whores.

Trust me or don't marry me.

Re:Here's a tip to avoid this

[Pig Hogger]

Bike.

Not tracking individuals

[nucal]

According to the article:

Project leaders at the Metropolitan Transportation Commission say they're not interested in the movements of individual drivers, and have gone to great lengths to protect privacy, including encrypting the serial number of each transponder as its location is transmitted. They promise to keep this data separate from the identities of FasTrak users and other information needed to make automatic monthly deductions from their bank or credit card accounts.

"We're not tracking or trying to follow any individual car, just the overall traffic flow," TravInfo project manager Michael Berman said. "We're really trying to bend over backward to make sure we don't know."

But it feels like they are spying on me...

Driving is a privilege

[Neil Watson]

Driving is a privilege, not a right. In order to gain that privilege you must expect to give up some privacy in order to protect the public.

Re:Driving is a privilege

[kcbrown]

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Really? Well, then, I guess walking must also be a privilege, yes?

Oh, so you think walking is a right but driving is a privilege, huh? Then, pray tell, what is the difference between the two? Safety? Then how about riding your bicycle? Is that a right or a privilege?

Think it's a matter of whether or not you do it on "public" property? Well, "public" property is property owned by us, the people. If there is any property we have the right to use, it's public property. But for you to be consistent in using the "public property" argument, then walking on the sidewalk (public property) must be a privilege, not a right.

Understand this: the entire point behind the founding of the U.S. was to give the people the right to do any damned thing they please so long as in doing so they don't interfere in the rights of others.

In just over 200 years we've gone from that to the belief that most things are "privileges" to be given or taken away at the whim of the government (and the corporations that control it) we're now so obviously subservient to. It's enough to make any freedom loving person ill.

They won't use it to issue tickets

[signe]

Quite simply, any jurisdiction that even has a fraction of a brain will not use an electronic toll system to issue tickets. If they do, people will stop using the electronic toll system. It's just that simple. The toll authority has just as much of an interest in having people use the electronic toll system as people do in using it to save time. More people using the electronic system means fewer people employed taking tolls and less traffic. They won't jeopardize that.

As far as tracking people using the transponders, I don't know that it's that bad a thing. Like they said, you can always avoid tracking by putting your transponder in a foil bag, and they're even going to provide them upon request (It's not a pain in the ass. I have two transponders, and they're only on the windshield when I am going through a tollbooth, because I have a convertible). That should show goodwill, at the very least. And California does have some of the worst traffic in the country. Any additional info on how it moves (or doesn't) is probably going to go a long way towards making it better.

-Todd

Re:This always bothered me

[r00tarded]

you're not free to break the law fuckhead. the 55 mph is the law, its not the law only if you get caught.

Re:This always bothered me

[Dannon]

you're not free to break the law...

I've recently been reflecting on the purpose of the law. I agree, as part of a civil society we choose to give up our freedom to do things that are against 'the law'. Why? Well, to secure Life, Liberty, and Property, according to the founders of this country.

So, why do we have laws imposing a 55mph speed limit? To preserve life, as such speed limits theoretically reduce the number of innocent people transformed into road pizza by some confused drivers who might otherwise confuse small-town roads with the European Autobahn.

So again, back to my original point, and I'll pretend I'm a Californian for a moment. Why should the State Patrol be allowed to use this transponder data to catch speeders? Well, if it can be proven to save lives without an unreasonable cost in tax dollars (and yes, you can put a price tag on a life, just ask any insurance company), then I would be for it. If, on the other hand, it's just to force people into obedience of the law for the law's sake, then it starts to be an abuse of freedom.