MIT vs. Las Vegas

spellcheckur writes "Techno-mag-turned-fashion-rag Wired Magazine has an article about MIT kids counting cards in Las Vegas. I wish I could have made seven figures while I was still in college. Maybe I should get a how-to book." Also, any chance is a good chance to mention The Eudaemonic Pie.

Comments

Jeez... hasn't this been going on for ever?

[shoptroll]

Man... i swear we have nothing better to do... University people have been counting cards in casinos for years... I don't think this is anything totally profound... I know for a fact its been done for at least 40 years by geeks... Read Geeks 2.0: A History of the Internet for a good story about some people almost getting busted while trying to see if the doppler effect could be used to predict the landing of a roulette ball in play...

Re:Doesn't matter if they count them or not...

[NoData]

NO. Card counting is legal both in New Jersey and Nevada. See, for example, this article.

However, the Nevada courts have ruled that as private clubs, the casinos can refuse business or openly discriminate (employ counter-measures like bet capping, early re-shuffling, etc.) against any player for any reason. Counting will get you kicked out, good counting can even get you banned, but it won't send you to jail.

In New Jersey, on the other hand, courts have ruled that gambling can only take place on games of PURE CHANCE and not SKILL. If the casinos tried to press the fact that a cheater counted cards to gain an advantage in court, they would be admitting blackjack is a game of skill, which is illegal. Thus, casinos are on a slippier slope if they try to kick someone out for counting, because a gambler could take his "skilled play" claim to the courts. That's part of the reason Atlantic city casinos almost exclusively play giant 6-deck shoes with maybe 2/3 penetration (reducing counting advantage to near NILL) and never the two-deck and even one-deck gems you see in the West.

Re:Odds

[bje2]

baccarat does not have 50/50 odds...in fact the oddss in baccarat are still slightly against you...but the house edge is smaller when you bet on the bank actually...a lot of people don't like that, cause you're betting against the player...but it's the way to go in terms of edge...

see here.... http://fastodds.com/gameodds/baccarat.htm

Re:MIT Cost

[cybermage]

It's illegal to count cards in a casino.

Ummm... No, it's not illegal. If a casino spots a card counter, all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be charged with trespassing.

Casinos want people to believe it's illegal and actively encourage such beliefs, but it's not. As long as you don't tamper with the game, you're not cheating. Here are some other non-cheats:

• Observe how the dealer reacts to their hole card. Some dealers will give a consistent visual tell when their hole card makes 21. Spot it, and you're right to insure when normally only an idiot would.
  
• In roulette, track the numbers by dealer in relationship to their relative positions on the wheel. Lazy dealers can make the game VERY non-random.
  
• In craps, bad dealers can forget to take down some loosing bets as much as 25% of the time. Spot a dealer who does this and remind him to pay your winning bets and let him forget your losing bets.
  
• In many games, without making any effort, cards will be revealed to you that shouldn't be. (e.g., a neighbor may show you his hand) If you see other cards, through no effort of your own, that knowledge gives you an edge without cheating.
  

Using any information available to you without action on your part is not cheating. Counting cards, spotting roulette fields, and dealers with bad procedure are all legit player advantages.

A casino may ask you to leave for any reason. You might be winning due to pure luck, and they can still ask you to leave. If they think you're actually cheating (i.e., marking cards; switching dice) they'll have you arrested.