Wireless Dilemma at Newton's House?

netean asks: "Woolsthorpe Manor, Lincolnshire, Uk (Birth place and Family Home of Sir Isaac Newton) has an interesting problem that may also be facing many historic buildings around the world. 4 Buildings less than 100 metres/yards apart. All are built from stone or brick and they need to be networked together, somehow. Ideally wireless looks the least disruptive and best option, but it is a Grade 1 listed building and that means no external antennae or high gain aerials are allowed anywhere visible. So will any wireless solution ever work in such situations?"

"The alternative approach just seems silly:

Proposed: Add another 128k ISDN line and 2 ordinary phone lines in one building (for office use) install 2 phone lines in another building (for other use) and continue using the existing 128k line in another building (used for free public internet access) - the network option would come from using the Internet and a VPN (the 4th building wouldn't be connected in this scenario). Hard line (cabled) ethernet cannot be used as it will be both be too expensive and involve digging underground which is not allowed.

Being a charity, The National Trust (the owners) aren't going to invest in some experimental wireless kit that might not work. But surely someone out there in the Slashdot community can help to ensure that it will. It must be possible, surely?"

Comments

Lasers...

[FatRatBastard]

T'aint cheap, but maybe a laser to laser connection set up between buildings. You should only have to point the access points out the window at each other.

Window, Flower Bed, FlowerPot, Facade

[Sean Clifford]

Is there any way to disguise the antennae in a flowerpot, flowerbed, or in part of the facade? Are any windows available that face each other (just 2 buildings). Be creative.

EDITORS: Can you post a picture of the buildings, diagram? A VRML or other CAD file? Notes and diagrams on existing wiring would be enormously helpful.

Can you run fibre through the plumbing system?

I'm sure we (as a community) can come up with something inexpensive and innovative.

802.11 or existing power lines?

[juanfe]

Sure, it sometimes has problems with walls, but for the kind of situation you're describing, and from my own anecdotal experience, a few strategically located access points may work even without additional booster antennas.

Think of it this way. If these houses share a wall, and one access point can "see" an access point on the other side of the wall, then you could theoretically have two access points talking to each other, and then a third talking to the second, and so on. Within each of the houses, computers could access the network enabled by that point through whatever means (cable or wireless within the house) were deemed appropriate.

Read this writer's own experience with multiple walls over 100 meters for some insight.

You could also try using existing power lines to build a network. I don't know which of these tools are approved for use in the UK, but I imagine there are at least some solutions that can make use of existing cabling.

Why?

[Alpha State]

and they need to be networked together, somehow.

Why on earth would these buildings need networking? I assume they are tourist attractions, what could be needed that can't be done stand alone? I assume they don't even have phones ATM (or you could use those lines).

Re:DSL?

[ericman31]

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head:

• cams to allow Internet visitors to view the interior
• The groundskeeper or caretaker ought to have Internet access
• The people who give tours and such could interact with online visitors
• A security system
• Cause Sir Isaac would think it was really cool if he was alive today

For a demonstration of how internet cams work in a situation like this, check out VetLinc from University of California at Davis' School of Veterinary Medicine.

Re:Carrier Pigeons

[halftrack]

This has been tried by the Bergen LUG in Norway with Alan Cox watching. See this page http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/

DSL depends on exchange in blighty

[johnjones]

i presume that this may be read by non-techy people so I repeat what alot of peoplle know that read this page sorry about that but I am trying to convince charitys in the UK to use a cost effective solution and not go wasting their money on PC's and such I would much rather they employ a gardner or handy man to keep propertys in good condition than spend money on upgrading and just use the best solution

yes and you could do it with any modern OS (Microsoft Windows XP, Mac OS X.2 and yes linux )
the cost to a charity would be the decideing factor

I would use Debian debian or Redhat also look for a local Linux User Group (LUG) these people would donate their time and expertise I am sure (-:
find UK LUG's here

useing a linux based solution would mean that you may not have to buy any new machines as you could use any that you already have

in terms of presenting information (I presumne thats why you want them networked )

THE best solution is to make a website that as well as you can publish to the world through a website you can also setup Linux box as a kiosk so that you can view nothing else except what you want (just think of the web broser area in full screen ) have a look around www. I am sure they have a solution I just cant remember the link (anyone help out ?)

also remember that DSL or ISDN is a bill every month so you might want a private link to cut costs

also if you have a grant that you can only spend on network I would recomend getting a IR link between the buildings (I have a backup link for the fiber that is between two Uni buildings and no these are not like your IR link on your PC but about 1-2Mbps which is pretty good) I cant remember the people that make it anyone got any good recomendations for IR links ?

hope this helps please contact people in your LUG and when you have a solution up and running let slashdot know !

regards

John Jones

Photos of the manor

[NexusTw1n]

Front view

I fail to see why you can't cable it with fibre. For health and safety reasons they'll be bright red fire alarm boxes wired with tasteful orange cable, or covered with plastic trunking, all over the buildings already.

All national trust buildings are required to have modern electric cabling for normal lighting, power sockets (for the cleaners) as well as emergency exit lighting (to light the fire escape routes), which will be encased in trunking skirting the walls. Fibre optic or even Cat5 can be added to that trunking easily, and has been done on other historical sites.

Re:Perfect Solution

[halftrack]

Again, this has been performed by the Bergen LUG in Norway. Overseen by Alan Cox. Here's a ping:

64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms

See their homepage here.

The SOLUTION!!! (so long as they had Chimney Sweep

[PortHaven]

Run an internal wireless system use the chimneys, and relay signal up the chimney, across to the other chimneys in other buildings and any others in the said office.

Works great,...unless of course they still in fact use the chimneys... *LOL*

Re:Dry Pair DSL

[matt_wilts]

No need to dig underground. BT will probably have already done this.

Ask BT to install an EPS-8 or EPS-9 circuit. (Someone's already mentioned "alarm circuit", which is what these are often used for). These are just 4 or 2-wire circuits with no amplification. They are only available when the two end points are on the same local exchange. Cost is approximately £500pa. Of course, you'll need something on the end, these people sell equipment from Tut Systems. Ask to speak to Hannah & tell her Matt sent you.
Matt

Re:Carrier Pigeons

[Technician]

Actualy that's not a bad idea because it inspired a soulution. Cell phone towers have had a bad name being ugly. To hide them, many radomes (fiberglass) are made to blend in un-noticed. Beautiful country can remain beautiful if the top of the farmers silo has a new fiberglass top that looks like the original. With that in mind, a fiberglass dummy birdhouse on the end of the building would look like it belonged there (decorated to look like wood of course). A tile chimney for a coal stove (now unused) could be replaced with a fiberglass one that looks like the original. The attic vent in the peak of the building could be replaced with a fiberglass one. There are many possibilities to hide a small 2 inch antenna.