KDE 3.1 Beta Released

shadow303 writes "KDE 3.1 beta has been released. There are numerous improvements, including tabbed browsing with Konqueror." I still can't say I care for tabbed browsing, but a lot of people swear by it. The new style/theme looks quite excellent, as do the various improved dialog boxes.

Comments

I don't get it...

[Quasar1999]

I've only used Linux via the GUI for a few months (ya, ya I know...)... but why is there KDE and Gnome? Why are the two not one. The only differences I see between the two are skins, very minor UI functionality, and some utils that are unique to either or. But why can't KDE and Gnome be merged, and allow the end user to customize everything the way they want? And use the utilities they want. I like KDE's appearence, but I hate it's 'feel' when actually doing tasks.

What is so fundamentally different between Gnome and KDE that doesn't allow them to be merged into one project? IMHO that's all that is required to finally get a solid Desktop presence for linux.

Re:I don't get it...

[IamTheRealMike]

I've only used Linux via the GUI for a few months (ya, ya I know...)... but why is there KDE and Gnome? Why are the two not one. The only differences I see between the two are skins, very minor UI functionality, and some utils that are unique to either or. But why can't KDE and Gnome be merged, and allow the end user to customize everything the way they want? And use the utilities they want. I like KDE's appearence, but I hate it's 'feel' when actually doing tasks.

Well, this is understandable. It's a phase we all go through, so don't worry. I went through it for instance, after a month or two of using Linux. It takes time, but you will realise the reasons for this. To try and save you time however, here is why, in a nutshell:

In the beginning there was KDE. It was free software (the GPL definition), but it was linked agianst Qt which was non free. This caused a lot of strife the community, as not only was KDE (in theory) illegal to distribute as it broke the terms of the GPL, but also the KDE developers were seen as being unreponsive to the issue. This was an important issue to many, as it would have "polluted" the platform with a core non free component. Why does this matter you say? Just imagine what would have happened if TrollTech had gone bust, or been bought out? One day Qt is there, the next it's not and you're shafted. Actually, project Harmony was set up to clone Qt (iirc), but after some considerable pressure from the community TrollTech GPL'd Qt, and all was well.

In the meantime, Miguel de Icaza had set up the GNOME project. It was based on GTK which was LGPL'd all the way. They also made many different design decisions - for instance GNOME is written in C, whereas KDE is C++. This is more important than it may seem, as (it was claimed) C is easier to bind to other languages, so gnome would be more inclusive. They also based their object model on CORBA rather than C++ for instance. There are many differences.

Today, they are so different there is no hope of merging them, so forget that. They do work together though, check out freestandards.org - the standards they produce there are often better than either of the technologies the individual projects came up with. KDE and GNOME used to be completely incompatible. Today, even the dreaded clipboard problem has been solved. So they do work together, and I for one am very interested in seeing this extended to sharing code as well. We'll have to see if this is possible.

Don't see this as a bad thing, please. Yes there is duplication of effort, sometimes needless. But consider the real world. There is lots of competition in the real world. Lots of different companies compete to provide the same product, but usually in different ways. The competition between KDE and GNOME keeps them sharp.

Do people use GNOME? YES! I just jumped ship from KDE3 to GNOME2.0.1 built from Garnome. I love it to bits, before I hated GTKs flakeyness and uglyness. Now I can't get enough of it. It's beautiful. GNOME2 has had a lot of effort put into usability, and it shows. It's not perfect yet, and there are still missing bits, but I think I'm a convert. Up until now, KDE has been the clear leader really. You said you don't like the "feel" of KDE: well, I know what you mean. To me, GNOME2 just feels better, although it seriously lacks features at the moment. It depends on personal preference though. One friend of mine swears by Enlightenment.

Competition is natural, and good. In the real world, people disagree over how things should be done. As long as competition is bracketed by standards, we will move forward, and this is what's happening.

What is so fundamentally different between Gnome and KDE that doesn't allow them to be merged into one project? IMHO that's all that is required to finally get a solid Desktop presence for linux.

LOL, don't worry, we all have opinions when we move to Linux. We learn later most of those opinions are misinformed ;) Remember - not everything is what it seems. Linux will have a solid desktop presence, but not yet. It's not ready. Both KDE and GNOME need a lot of polish and work, but they are good foundations on which to build. Remember: not everything is what it seems.

multitasking with tabs

[mblase]

I use tabs a lot on sites like Slashdot -- especially once I figured out how to use 'em fast. By checking a couple of preferences in Mozilla, I can control-click (or right-click and select) any link and have it open in a new tab, behind my current web page.

Usually I scroll down the Slashdot home page, open up a few story links in new tabs without any other interruptions, and keep scrolling. When I'm done, I close that tab and all the stories I wanted to read are loaded and ready.

You can do the same with multiple windows, I suppose, but it's not as compact and the new browser windows usually load over the one you're currently on, not under it.

still ugly

[elliotj]

I may be spoiled by Mac OS X (ok, ok, I KNOW I'm spoiled by Mac OS X), but I think KDE is still an ugly interface. What's up with that? They could make it purty,,,why don't they?

Re:Emace or VI or.... Kate?

[Pengo]

Being a little bored with VIM I am trying a few different editors and have had some suprising results. Most of my code I write is Java/Python/VelocityMacro/JSP. For me JEdit has been a godsend as I have found that I can do almost everything in there that I need (sorta sick like emacs) but I have a very elegent and easy to use editor with outstanding tools like a built in jpython, code insight, and class browsing.

There is even a plugin that allows basic VI emulation (command mode) which excites the hell out of me. The syntax highlighting seems a bit more complete than VIM's (it just works better, especially in tricky JSP pages).

Kate was an editor that I tried for a day or two, but with a VERY small syntax-highlighting pallete it's hard to be as productive as I am in VIM or JEdit.

Note, for java people.. JEdit is a nice lite alternative to something like NetBeans or JBuilder. It's probably not the best thing for those weak of heart though, plugins can be touchy and a little fickle to get working. If your comfortable with an Emacs level of configurability, you might like it. (Note, this is comming from a non-emacs user).

Cheers

Dry humor at its best!

[cthompso]

well done ;)

Tabs rock

[Ogerman]

I still can't say I care for tabbed browsing, but a lot of people swear by it.

Browser tabs are like mouse wheels. They seem pointless at first, but then you get used to them and it's hard to go back. It's a subtle change, but consider how it affects the way you use the GUI: 1.) all web browsing is contained in a single window frame, thus making it easier to mentally seperate from other tasks, 2.) WM taskbars get shuffled, and make it easy to lose track of which windows belong to which applications. Browser tabs stay in the order that web pages were opened are spacially seperate. 3.) When doing heavy web browsing.. ie.) 10 windows open, it's much easier to have all controls at the top of the screen. instead of jumping around.