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Is Win2k + SP3 HIPAA Compliant?

Chris asks: "Our company deals with medical records in a peripheral sort of way (as they pertain to student loans), and due to new laws we are required to be HIPAA compliant by April. After reading the discussion on here about the new EULA for Win2k SP3, I had a disturbing thought. As far as I can tell, if you use Windows 2000 then you're going to be out of compliance whatever you do. If you install the patch, then theoretically Microsoft could access those medical records (possibly by accident) without 'due cause or need' in the process of updating your machine. If you don't patch your system then you'll fail the security requirements of the law." If Win2k with SP3 is not HIPAA compliant (and I stress the if because no one has made a statement either way, yet) what can non-compliant Medical IT departments do?

21 of 401 comments (clear)

  1. HIPAA Compliance by mosch · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If you want an answer, you're going to need to hire a lawyer. Asking Slashdot will certainly give you a wide variety of unfounded opinions, and baseless conclusions, but it won't actually be useful. At all.

    Besides, would you really want to take legal advice from a group of people who are known to mistake duct tape and baling wire for building materials?

    1. Re:HIPAA Compliance by sphealey · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you want an answer, you're going to need to hire a lawyer. Asking Slashdot will certainly give you a wide variety of unfounded opinions, and baseless conclusions, but it won't actually be useful. At all.
      In the long run, you are of course correct. This issue will need to be resolved by the hospital's CIO and Legal Dept.

      However, when seeking assistance from a lawyer (or any similar professional) it is best to have a basic understanding of what is going on, and what you need, before you set up a meeting. You will get a lot more accomplished that way.

      Similarily, lawyers aren't born knowing everything (even though they try to foster that impression!). If your hospital's legal dept. primarily handles malpractice and billing cases, and you bring an intellectual property / EULA problem to them, they are also going to have to do some research to get up to speed. Being able to provide background helps here too.

      sPh

    2. Re:HIPAA Compliance by crawling_chaos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't matter if you get the right answer on Slashdot. HIPPA is a legal monster and you must get advice from competent legal counsel. To give a marginally related example, a lawyer might give you good medical advice, but you'd be a fool not to check with a doctor before you took the lawyer's advice. Again, find a lawyer who's a HIPPA expert. No other advice counts.

      --
      You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
      -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  2. "How to defang Win2k SP3's auto updating" by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    is the head title of this arcticle in The Reg.

    basicaly it teaches how to deactivate this backdoor M$ is installing in every win2k box.

    now, the original submiter could really consider an alternative.

    if U don't like free (as in freedom) open source tools, why not a Solaris box with Oracle to keep the data ? Or an AIX with DB2 ? or PostgreSQL ?

    does you REALLY need win2k ????

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?
  3. Re:What a waste of time by Kristoffor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well I cannot speak for the author of the question but I can tell you that *I* was very intreaged when I saw this question. As an IT professional in a healthcare related field I am bombarded by questions re: HIPAA compliance. The HIPAA regs are in such disarry and so unclear that many people in the industry are anxiously waiting for the moment the regs are cleared up and complete so we can "sprint towards compliance".

  4. Problem is EULA not SP by sphealey · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Running a Windows OS connected to the Internet without a firewall would constitute a violation of the "due cause" clause, with or without SP3.

    Furthermore, disable auto-updating and do it manually and the problem is solved, moot, and done.

    Have to disagree with your police work a bit there.

    The problem is not the service pack or the auto-downloader, which can be disabled. The problem is with the EULA itself, where Microsoft reserves for itself the right to access your system at any time. Installing the service pack off-line still requires acceptance of the EULA.

    sPh

    1. Re:Problem is EULA not SP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree completely. It's the legal issues (not the "probable" or "possible" intrusion).

      At our company, we have NDA agreements like you've never seen before. We host legal documents for Law firms that are engaged in battle.

      No one. And I mean, NO ONE (other than the law firm), is allowed to see the documents that we host.

      The EULA that Microsoft has attached is in absolutely direct violation of our agreements with our clients.

      Ergo, we haven't installed SP3 and doubt that we will.

  5. Submit a request to HIPAA not /. by Kefaa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    HIPAA is like any other oversight group and only it can decide this is "okay" or a "violation". However, since logic cannot be guaranteed to rule, you cannot guess which. Have your company, preferably through your legal consul, submit a binding request for clarification.

    Be certain your lawyer understands he should ask for an exemption until this is clarified. (This will prevent them from sitting on it for two years and then you getting in trouble later.)

    Later when HIPAA says it is okay to do "X" and you find MS (or anyone with such an EULA) has absorbed records, your company is in the clear. Do not presume you can later claim a technical solution that was "just as good as..."

    This is an issue for your lawyer(s) to resolve, not Slashdot.

  6. Here's a couple of Linux Medical Sites by motardo · · Score: 5, Informative
  7. Re:What a waste of time by NumberSyx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Furthermore, disable auto-updating and do it manually and the problem is solved, moot, and done.

    This is not a technical issue, disabling Auto-Update is trivial. This is a legal issue, the real problem is by agreeing to the EULA they are giving a third party, who has no due cause, access to thier system. Whether or not Microsoft ever actually accesses thier system is not the point, the point is they have given consent and Microsoft could in theory demand access at anytime, say for example to check for unlicensed copies of software. I suggest you get a lawyer who can sort this out for you, it is also possible, however unlikely, a good lawyer could negotiate a different EULA with Microsoft.

    --

    "Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
    -Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development

  8. How will a firewall help... by volpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... if your own operating system is tunnelling through http to make requests from Microsoft's server to download patches without your knowledge?
    (Unless, of course, you want to cut off MS's websites from your browsers as well.)

    Note that disabling auto-updating is a technical solution that assumes that MS won't ignore that setting for any updates that it consideres to be "really critical", either to your security, or to MS's business needs.

  9. Check Out MSHUG.ORG or HL7 by puto · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Microsoft Healthcare Users Group. This is a group of vendors that sit togehter on a board that define all standards for healthcare products that run on MS software. To be a member of this group or state that your software is compliant they certify you.

    They strictly adhere to all governmental regulations for healthcare records including EDI and storing of sensitive medical records.

    The medical industry is a huge economic buyer in the hardware and software industry and MS based vendors have always been in strict compliance with government standards.

    1. Check to see if your software is HL7(health care 7) HL7 is a protocol for formatting, transmitting and receiving data in a healthcare environment.

    2. Ask your vendor how they store the medical rcords, is it hl7 compliant. I think you guys have a homegrown product? IF your product is home grown it does'nt apply to the governmental standard for handling medical data, the EULA is the least of your worries.

    3. IF the product is home grown. Cover your ass.

    MSHUG is microsoft centric but a good start for you.

    I did medical software for ten years and dealt with all these issues long ago. Your vendor should be able to point you in the right direction. BUT IF YOUR SOFTWARE CAME FROM A VAR, DONT ASK HIM, CALL THE ACTUAL HOME COMPANY! The developers will give you more of a straight answer than the var.

    PUTO

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  10. Watch out for the 'disable' option by RobertNotBob · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I work in the healthcare industry and have been following this fairly closely. One alarming thing that I have seen in various discussions is the idea that simply disabling the feature has any affect on the situation.

    It does not.

    The root of the problem is the agreement that M$ CAN download software on your computer without prior notification. If you agree to that, it really makes no difference if you check a box that tells you machine not to do it. At any time, either pre-programed or by an addition that you make, M$ can uncheck that box without letting you know. Think about it, if you sign a document that states I have the privilage to do something (whatever it is) and then you (outside of that document) simply tell me not to do it, am I legally bound not to do it? It is possible that not even using SUS (software update server) will mitigate this.

    Also don't feel secure about non-W2K products either. Most (and soon all, I suspect) products M$ releases contain that same provision. If you have updated MediaPlayer ( I believe it is one with the new verbiage) then you have already given consent for M$ to add software to your machine whenever they choose. NOT Maybe, NOT sometime soon, NOT only if you have W2K, but right now on the box you are currently using. And although I don't have it right infront of me now, I'm pretty sure that mediaplayer even specificly mentions that current features may be removed (playing MP3's) by the unannounced 'upgrades'.

    Although we are still evaluating this with our legal staff, it looks very possible that we will be purging M$ products from the vast majority of our network.

    oh, DARN ! ;)

    And for the record, I am not a lawyer. Don't take this as legal advise. Heck, I could be dead wrong. Localities and Nationalities will obviously differ in their approaches.

    --
    ___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
  11. Re:What a waste of time by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Of course they can (and will) bundle the DRM-stuff with the next service packs anyway, so sooner or later they will get DRM into all Windows machines.

    Ah, but they are preventing users of pirated activation codes and Warez copies of XP from accessing the Windows Update site aren't they? Wouldn't that also preclude gaining access to the DRM "upgrade"?

    All of a sudden that Windows XP .ISO and keygen I spotted on P2P seems a lot more appealing... ;)

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  12. Re:MS Windows EULA not HIPAA compliant by JWW · · Score: 4, Informative

    The government can audit you and find you out of complience basically at their whim.

    It doesn't matter if Windows systems are a monopoly, and everyone has them. They will find everyone they audit to be out of complience. Auditors are looking for a score, they don't give a shit about your ability to do business.

    BTW: This EULA aslo is not FDA part 11 compliant either. Locked down systems would need to be revalidated after any and all autoupdates.

  13. Perhaps a lawsuit would be appropriate by brokeninside · · Score: 5, Insightful
    For the past several days, I've been wondering if a lawsuit against Microsoft over the EULA for W2K Service Pack 3 might not be viable. If I were more motivated, I might even talk to a lawyer about it.

    It seems to me that unacceptable changes to the EULA for a service pack might void the implied warranty usability of Windows 2000. By releasing the service pack, they are admitting that Windows 2000 has problems. If I cannot get access to fixes for those problems without agreeing to a contract substantially different from that which governed my license for Windows 2000, I think that I might have a good basis for a lawsuit to get a court order that Microsoft supply fixes to their software under the terms of the original EULA.

  14. Get More Than Just a Lawyer by Phoukka · · Score: 5, Informative

    If your company is of any size whatsoever, you'll need more than just a lawyer who specializes in HIPAA compliance issues. You'll need to acquire the services of a HIPAA compliance and remediation consulting group. Our hospital is using Ernst & Young.

    It sounds like you have multiple areas to look at -- your data storage, your data transmission (you aren't just creating those medical records from thin air, are you?), your partner companies, and how you handle the Patient Identifying Health Information on the desktop. Not to mention that your company should have been preparing for this for QUITE some time now.

    First, you'll need to make sure that your data storage, transmission and handling (includes handing paper copies around), and desktop security are all compliant. Next you'll find that you are also responsible for making sure that any business partner companies are compliant. This task basically means getting your partner companies to sign "HIPAA Business Partner Agreement" contracts that means the partner company states that they are contractually obligated to handle any patient data of yours in a means that is also HIPAA compliant.

    Finally, and most important of all, you'll need to be able to document all of the above, in a form that the government inspectors can easily use to check your compliance. Yay.

    Get yer HIPAA-lovin' lawyers on the stick as fast as you can, and file for any extensions that may apply. You will need a complete inventory of any and all computing infrastructure (servers, workstations, network, and software) that touches identifying patient medical data. You will need to have this inventory so your CIO, lawyers, computer security experts and your HIPAA remediation consultants can check the compliance of everything on the list. Anything failing compliance, you'll need to fix or replace.

    One last thing: you are also responsible for making sure that the source of your medical data is asking permission to use that medical data, and is asking that permission in a way that is compliant.

    I hope this provides you with a decent starting point. Good luck, you have a hard task ahead of you.

  15. A Technical Forum??? by fwr · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In the meantime, this is a technical forum...


    I'd say that you have a lot to learn about Slashdot. While most of the stories on here are technical in nature or have something to do with technology a large percentage of them have to do with the legal and political issues surrounding something technical.

    Think about all the stories on copy protection for CD's. Yes, it has to do with a technical issue, but the discussions are certainly not technical. I've seen no code posted no how to defeat the copy protection. 99% of the posts are opinions about whether it is right for the producers to restrict use of purchased CD's in the way they want to, and the other 1% are First Post!

    Why don't you just come out and say it? You are a Microsoft appologist that wants to ignore the issue with their EULA by making fun of the issue and calling it a waste of time. You say it's an invalid clause, but you don't indicate that you are a lawyer (and even if you were I doubt you'd be offering official legal advise). So you want us to just ignore the issue and "agree" to the EULA?

    What happens if the EULA is allowed to stand and then Microsoft actually builds in more of this access that you granted them? What happens when it eventually gets installed on all Windows systems and then the crackers find out how to manipulate it and steal information off your computer? Then it wouldn't be Microsoft accessing the sensitive information, as I doubt they actually would do something like that, but because of the EULA they provide additional access methods for others.

    There are plenty of valid discussion items surrounding this issue. Ignoring them is not going to make them go away, and they definately fall right smack into the favorite topic on Slashdot -- Microsoft bashing.
  16. Re:Read the EULA. by Zeinfeld · · Score: 4, Interesting
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, TALK TO LEGAL COUNSEL. WHY THE FSCK ARE YOU ASKING LEGAL QUESTIONS ON `ASK SLASHDOT', ANYWAY?! DO WE LOOK LIKE HARVARD LAW GRADS?!

    Oh come on, we know why the question was put. It was a snarky little jibe whose only purpose was to claim that HIPPA prevented the use of Windows.

    It is kind of like a 'proof' that 1 = 2. We are not meant to agree with the conculsion, we are meant to admire the devious application of logic.

    It is quite obvious to anyone but a moron that MSFT is not going to enforce license agreements that prevent sale of their product for use regulated by HIPPA.

    It should also be obvious that the EULA term was written very broadly by a lawyer who was attempting to minimize the probability of a lawsuit if someone complained about auto-update or the like.

    And it should be completely obvious that Microsoft as a US corporation is obliged to comply with HIPPA. Microsoft is one of the few US companies that actually has a privacy policy and has agreed to be regulated under the EU privacy directive.

    The other fact to consider is that the Clinton era HIPPA act has since gbeen gutted by the Bush administration who have issued 'guidance' that essentially negates the whole act. Under the Bush guidelines you lose the right to opt-out. Hospitals can refuse service if you don't waive all your rights to patient confidentiality which they can do in small print. So while the act may require hospitals to install firewalls etc. etc. none of it will make any difference because the hospitals can now sell all your confidential data to the people you least want to have hold of it.

    --
    Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
    Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. Attorney's Take by quoz13 · · Score: 4, Informative
    I'm an attorney who works with HIPAA. Here are some general observations about the EULA.

    Reasonable Assurances... The writer who states that the covered entity need only take reasonable precautions. What is or is not reasonable depends on too many factors. I happen to think that if you disable the feature, that action seems pretty reasonable. I for one, am not worried about the EULA. I'm more worried about things like password protection, access to the file room and the like.

    Illegal Contracts... As someone else correctly states, contracts that are contrary to law cannot be enforced (at least the illegal provision).

    Covered entites... Chris, who wrote the original message may not need to worry about HIPAA. HIPAA covers mostly medical providers and insurance companies. It also covers self-insured companies and the like, but I don't think it covers loan applications. Of course, Chris could be a business associate of a covered entity.

    Business associates... A covered entity must obtain satisfactory assurances from its business associates (accountants, lawyers, billing companies) that the health information is protected. As someone correctly notes, that requires an agreement known as a business associate agreement/contract.

    As a side note, I've begun to draft an article about what HIPAA requires... the language in the law actually asks the covered entity to make sure that they have "satisfctory assurances" that the business associate safeguard personal health information ("PHI" although some call it "individually identifiable health information")