Virtual Reality Schizophrenia Simulation

DrunkenTerror writes "NPR is reporting this story about a virtual reality schizophrenia simulation developed by Janssen Pharmaceutica, a company that makes a drug for schizophrenia. The simulation (seen through a VR HMD) lets the user experience the world through the eyes and ears of a person with schizophrenic illness. The rig was designed as an education tool for doctors and others who want a more visceral understanding of the illness. The voices in the RealAudio slideshow are really overwhelming. Janssen is said to be considering converting the VR content to DVD for wider release. Helloooooo, future of trip-hop!"

Comments

Please enter the room and stare at the strobe

[ObviousGuy]

Kill your parents...

Kill your kids...

Do it...
Do it...
Do it...

Wasn't that scary

[infornogr]

Am I the only one that wasn't deeply disturbed by the slideshow? Maybe it's just because it was a slideshow and not some DVD-quality video with a VR helmet. Neat idea, anyways.

Re:Wasn't that scary

[Eagle7]

The pictures weren't that bad - but the voices really got to me by the end... keep in mind that the only one talking for most of it was the pharmicist, and she was being nice the whole time, but that's not what you heard. I can see how it would be crazy in VR.

Re:Wasn't that scary

[ObviousGuy]

Were the voices imitating her voice when she complains that someone let him out of the asylum (or escaped, I couldn't hear it that well)?

I guess that's the point, you lose the ability to discern the real from the 'imagined'.

Re:Wasn't that scary

[MarkGriz]

... or maybe your Schizophrenia is much worse than the simulation.
... or maybe someone has hacked your computer and is feeding you a less disturbing realaudio stream.
... or maybe...

A few more voices

[DrunkenTerror]

I suggest listening to Joanne Silberner's full report in addition to the slideshow. And turn up the volume on the slideshow. The vocal layers go pretty deep. Or just take a bunch of LSD. Sounds pretty damn similar to me.

The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

In the game Alice there is a lot of this kind of thing.
The main story line is Alice is skitzo

It can get pretty fscked up

Re:The game "Alice"

[DrunkenTerror]

I am unfamiliar with Alice. What platform? Also of note is the GameCube game Eternal Darkness, with its sanity meter and wild hallucinations.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, it's based on the quake3 engine. Very nice game btw, the levels were made by a mad man :) And this is the definite Alice, true to the orginal book, and unlike any disneyfied version. The whole story involves Alice dealing with her madness... she's in an asylum, a few years after her epsoide in the wonderworld, and she's older now, but very sarcastic. This is one of the most most memorble modern game characters, not to mention it's known as American McGee's Alice ;) So you know there is some um quality. Oh, I just finished it last night, and I played it on Linux.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

So, is the red pill or the blue pill (Most people would think this is from Matrix, but where do you think Matrix got it from??). Alice is the most hallucinatory book ever written, think about it, three quarters of the time it deals with munching on mushroom that does things to your senses. American McGee's Alice too is very much like the orginal, I loved it. Alice is hallucinating, tripping and back in Wonderland, and she's mean and kinda uncaring at first (EXTREEMLY SARCASTITC as mentioned before). Also, (spoiler), the Queen seem to be an alter-ego of Alice? I couldn't quite finger it, but right at the end when Alice kills the queen of hearts (In the game), alice says "Who am I", and that sentense didnt make sense there, but I guess that was thought provoking. Also, if you look around under mushrooms you get philosophical statemnts like "Why are you here?", and so on...

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

This is really creepy.
I just happened upon this thread while listening to the music I unpacked from the Alice CD. (It's worthy of Aphex Twin meets candyman)

Yes. If you haven't played Alice, know that you should. What a fantastic game!

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

If you kill the babies (In the level where Alice wakes up on a table and everthing's 90 degees and you have these kids walking around with hannable like headgears) you can get her to become pregnant and give birth to another Alter-ego who you can play till the end. What you need to do is go to the clock thing, but dont damage the clock, you have to very carefully shoot (with the book thing) at the pendulum, then turn around and jump through into the clog, walk (NOT RUN) off it). You'll fall down and there is a dream sequence, and babies would be falling around you, what you, alice would stare and one baby would say, "I am you", and alice would lace out with her knife and slice it (pretty gruesome), then the baby would be crying and crying ... when Alice wakes, it's in the secret level and while playing it, her tummy would start getting bigger and bigger, at the end of the level (There are no mobs in it btw, you just have to wade through lots of fog), she'd be nearly large enough to give birth, then mad hatter comes and kicks her in the stomach.. there is some screaming.. the screen goes blank, another dream sequence, then you can see in the background Alice with her tummy ripped open .. and walking away is the Evil alice (kinda like when she quaffs the evil potion and makes her quad damage thing), but this is meaner, and she's biogger, and she can just walk into card ppl and chop them into piices, oh.. she's dressed kinda like a domnitrix, but very period.. like 1800's.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

The music was done by Chris Verne of Nine Inch Nails fame (like how Trent did the Q1 and Doom3). It's very creepy, the ambient sounds are of crying, weeping, wailing, and anything generally depressing. Much more creepy than any other quake/doom/etc game. It really sends chills up my spine listening to the game.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

There are other hidden levels as well. If you go the tea table (just before you meet hatter), you can get into one of those. Remember, in the orginal book, while Alice was having tea with the hatter, her parents were dying from the fire her house was on? Anwyay, someone mentions that in the game too... So, if you are in the tea cup area, what you have to do is, jump into one of the tea cups (yes hot tea would burn you -- not sure which one btw), and dive to the end and wait till your life falls down (you cant do this in god mode btw), then just before it goes completely down, take the knife and slice at the bottom of the tea cup, and puff you fall into a chamber from where you can go into two levels.

Level 1. Is a tunnel leading down, that takes you across and over into an area that was inspired from the swords of shannara series. American McGee was a fan, and this was the 3rd book from the orginal series, right the end where the girl goes into the pit and turns into a witch, anyway the whole thing is done here, it's a nice big level and very true to shannera.. even Alice is wearing different clothes (hood, leather boots etc) and she does different magic, now this makes me wonder if he's gonna make a sword of shannara game based on q3 engine and in questing type. I couldn't figure out how to kill the evil book in this.

Level 3: Takes you tripping again, this time you go back to your own house, the one you can climb up, but this is different, this was just before the fire came, you are like a a ghost, so sit back and watch.. while little alice (oh she's younger) is sent to sleep, and their parents hug then go to bed, then you see rabbit come by and play with the furnace and somehow the embers come out (SO ITS THE BUNNY), anyway.. the fire catchs on.. if you run up to the parents room.. you can watch them being burned.. then if you go to alice's room she'd be just jumping into a hole with the rabbit, when you jump into that you come out of the tea cup again.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

Alice is a catatonic schizophrenic, a very severe form of the disease in which the patient's body remains completely still while they seem to experience a world of their own. That's the premise of the game, Alice is laying in her bed in the hospital ward the entire time, and the game is the battle she is fighting inside her mind, in Wonderland, her own personal reality.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

Might want to see 'Evil Twin', around for PC and PS2. Same types of themes as A McGee's Alice.

Re:The game "Alice"

[Anonymous Coward]

got any screenshots of that?

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Lately, I've been waking up in the middle of the night, and imaginging that there were things all around me or games being played or people sitting out in the living room wanting me to do things. Once, I even convinced myself that I've woken in a fantasy and whatever I do, nothing can can change in the real world. Like 2 nights back, I woke up and thought of going out, luckly, I wore something, then went out to the backyard and sat around smoking a cig, it was only when the cig was done and I was back inside that I realized half the time I thought I was in some fantasy dream world. Another thing, I couldn't remember what happend before it.

Does anyone have these experiences? Are these anything to worry about? Or me just getting too tired, too much games, work, etc... and too less sleep? Or too much food? Any thoughts?

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a handful of experiences like that when I was I growing up.

I still become semi-awake at night while still in a dream state sometimes which can be a little unnerving because of the utter absurdity of the thoughts that are running through my head in that particular mental state -- which, of course, I don't realize until I'm fully awake. On the plus side, I haven't repeated the experiences of actually walking around/doing stuff like I did when I was growing up.

I really attribute it to poor sleeping habits + diet more than anything as I've never had these problems surface when I eat well, get to bed at a decent hour and get up early.

YMMV.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

games being played or people sitting out in the living room wanting me to do things.

You should start worrying if there are actually no people sitting in the living room.

Seriously, if you are half asleep or tired, you can be in all sorts of weird mental states. Get help if it bothers you, if you fear you may do harm to yourself or others, or if it persists when you should be fully awake.

Re:Hmm

[Vellmont]

You may have some sort of sleep disorder. If I were you I'd make an appointment at a sleep clinic. Your GP is probbably fairly ignorant about sleep disorders, at least according to one of the leading sleep disorder specialist, William Dement. So try to find a sleep clinic.

Re:Hmm

[elizard2k]

Yea, I had a similar experience. I found myself in my house, in my bed, yet for about half an hour I couldn't for the life of me figure out where I was. Once I finally DID figure out I was at my own house, it took me a considerable amount of time to figure out how and why I got here, and if I woke up any family member in the process.
I had difficulties thinking straight .. I'd start a thought, lose it after a few seconds then spend the next 10-15 minutes thinking about what I was thinking.
Of course, this was due to certain circumstances I won't discuss, but hey .. its all good right? :)

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

i cant say ive ever had that, specifically, thought i have had some sleep disorders. i wake up a lot during the night, i used to sleepwalk sometimes too. also, sometimes when i wake up or when i feel REALLY tired, i get this weird feeling, as though i am 50 feet tall or as small as an ant or something. is there any sort of technical term for this? when i was younger, i used to wake up all the time in the middle of the night like that, except i had this huge feeling of impending doom or something... its really almost impossible to describe. people would tell me i was completely pale and cold as ice when this happened, but i barely remember it.

also, sometimes i dream that im just waking up and there is a spider dangling in front of me or in my bed or something. since i have arachnophobia, this causes me to startle myself awake, at which point i cant remember if i was dreaming or awake. i think thats just tied to stress, though, because it only happens when ive been stressing.

anyways, the closest thing ive had to what you describe is where i wake up, yet im still half-dreaming, so nothing i say makes sense and i dont remember anything later on. ill even hold full conversations with people, untill they realize i dont know what im saying, and this doesnt really go away untill i fall asleep again. that, however, is just me being half-dreaming, so i dont really worry about it.

one thing thats cool though, is that i sometimes know when the phone is going to ring while i sleep, because just before it does, ill have a dream that im talking to them on my cordless phone while im in bed. then the phone ring wakes me up, and i always rush to the phone, half asleep, thinking theyre calling back because i hung up on them.

well, this was decently offtopic. sorry, just rambling late at night.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

You may be be mildly schizophrenic. In people without schizophrenic symptoms, the barriers between the subconcious and concious are more or less concrete. Images from your past or imagination are summoned only when the context of the external world draws them out. And even then, those images are in the background and dim compared to the strength of the world falling upon the sensorium.

But with schizophrenics the images and scenerios from their pasts and from their imaginations are just as strong as the input from the sensorium. And those scenes come forth unheeded by the contexts of what is happening in the real world.

From analysis of my own dreams and thoughts, I sometimes wonder if we all live dual lives. One life we are aware of and is composed of our direct and explicit experiences, and the other is a stream of analogies that run just below the surface, mirroring the real world with abbreviations, shortcuts and summaries of past experiences.

When you sleep and dream, you get a look at this other world and it's lexicon of analogies you've constructed to keep track of things in the real world. Your life is probably much richer than what you can readily percieve.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of the replies here are more 'hey, I must reply to this post' than 'hey, there is a person behind here, perhaps I should think about what I say and not make ill informed generalisations'. I occasionally wake up thinking that I have been the subject of a russian roulette type game and that I just lost and swallowed poison or some similar thing. It can be 'distressing' until you wake up properly. Once I also thought the house was falling down and was opening the front door (naked) before I realised. The former has happened on and off for years and almost always relates to work or life stress. They are much less frequent now. I also once had a dream where I dreamt that I woke up but I was still dreaming and wierd stuff started happening (ever seen American Werewolf in London ?). You may be anxious and dealing with stuff in dreams. Everyone has experiences of extreme mental states, imagine what it is like to be like that all day. Real mental problems occur when these extreme mental states (which include the bordlerland between sleep and consciousness, anxiety, etc) extend into 'normal' times and the rebalancing mechanism breaks down. Someone close to me had a long (four day !) anxiety attack. I would say that was the equivalent of a weekend break in schizophrenia-land. What you are experiencing is just a postcard.

Re:Hmm

[bujoojoo]

More like too much /.

Nice toy.

[Anonymous Coward]

But I'm afraid us sane people, being quite aware that the simulation is just a simulation, will still have no clue what it's really like to have scizophrenia. Schizophrenics can't distinguish between reality and their hallucinations. Their voices are not "in their heads", they come from the outside world, or so it seems to them. They see people who don't exist, hear voices booming from the sky, see messages appear in perfect clarity in thin air, and on and on...

The central issue of schizophrenia isn't any wacked out psychedelic VR trip. It's more like a constant daydream, except that it's utterly impossible to distinguish between the dream and the real world. The hallucinations are idiosyncratic, coming from the psyche and experience of the individual in question... Frankly, I don't see what kind of value this research has to schizophrenic patients.

Re:Nice toy.

[Zen Mastuh]

Yours is probably the most insightful post in this article. This software is the result of a non-schizophrenic's insight into the world of schizophrenia, which he can only surmise from observations of patients as well as their own descriptions. At best it is a toy, just as you said.

This will have absolutely no research value, but will give non-schizophrenics comfort when they believe it allows them to "understand" what is happening in the mind of a schizophrenic patient.

I'm waiting for the anti-drug crowd to buy licenses for this product so they can "demonstrate" the effects of LSD and other drugs to fearful, impressionable parents.

Re:Nice toy.

[GutBomb]

Most of the effects of LSD would be hard to simulate (as with schizophrenia) because most of it is not "voices you hear" or "things you see" but bodily sensations and drastic changes in the thinking process, which are impossible to simulate.

sure you could simulate the "trails effect" you see when taking lsd, and maybe some of the patterns you see when you close your eyes, and the "swirling paint" effect that you see on textured walls, but people that take LSD don't see massive hallucinations. they don't see things that aren't there, they see things that are there differently.

The best description of an lsd visual would be from "fear and loathing in las vegas" the film based on the hunter thompson book, in a scene where the 2 guys had just taken ... something, i think it was acid... as they are walking into the casino bar the pattern from the carpet was creeping up the furnature. right after that it lost it's believability (for me anyway) with the giant lizards, cuz i've never seen that kinda shit.

but at least for me the reason for taking as much lsd as i did in the past was not to "see cool hallucinations", but to think about things in a different way, see things from a different perspective, and it's this aspect (the dominant one) that would be impossible to simulate.

on a side note, i did lsd hundreds of times when i was younger, and now i have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder after a seriously bad trip. it's been 3 years since that trip and i get panic attacks and shit all the time. never did before that trip. so while i recommend using LSD, i don't recommend overusing it, and if it just doesn't feel right one night to drop acid, don't. drink a coffee instead of spending the whole night thinking your brain is about to explode. (there was no physical problem with my brain, it was just the thought process that lasd changed to make me feel like my brain was expanding beyond my skull)

Fantastic Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

My younger brother has schizophrenia, and for the longest time, my parents had no idea what he was going through. They didn't know he had to be brought in for treatment because they thought he was just being a "bad boy."

I think this is just another step in understanding mental illness.

try this.

[Unknown Poltroon]

I work in phone support, and normally have a 1 ear headset with music, radio whatever playing on it, and use the other ear to answer the phone. Usually it's no problem. I tried to take a user call while this thing was playing in one ear, and the user on the other ear. WOW. Totally confused, had to turn it off and ask them to repea ttheir questions. I was trying to imagine what this is like with this going on all the time.

Vuja De

[Tablizer]

The simulation (seen through a VR HMD) lets the user experience the world through the eyes and ears of a person with schizophrenic illness.

They had something similar in the 60's. It was called "LSD".

Re:Vuja De

[spike hay]

They have it in the 2,000's also.

Mmmm. Pscholicious.

Re:Vuja De

[Zen Mastuh]

For real. Ever notice how only people who have never done LSD make it obvious when they speak about LSD? I'm really surprised he didn't mention flashbacks, jumping from rooftops, and various other myths held by LSD virgins.

Re:Vuja De

[Anonymous Coward]

Completely true..

Its like the urban legend of the babysitter on LSD who tells the concerned parents 'Everythings fine, I put the turkey in the oven'.. Only, THERES NO TURKEY.. Pure drug war FUD.

LSD doesn't make you dissascociate with reality. Walls might 'melt' and you may see 'tracers', but walls are still walls, people are people, donuts are donuts.

Schizophrenia (I can only relate what I've heard/read, since I dont have it) does make you dissascociate with reality. Walls can be monsters, dogs can be people, donuts can be poison.

Although, there is a common thread of paranoia.

When I took a psych class in University, I remember an interesting story about an architect/researcher who was contracted to design hospitals for skizophrenic patients.

The architect took LSD, and made notes about what made him 'paranoid' and what didn't. He came to some simple conclusions, like avoiding starkly contrasting color schemes (unlike the black and white of most hospitals), beds and furniture that are low to the ground, etc.

The research was very innovative and ground-breaking, and led to alot of changes in the way sanitariums are thought of and designed.

Re:Vuja De

[Zen Mastuh]

Do you remember the name of the architect, or at least the country where this took place? Sounds too human to happen in America; my guess would be Scandinavia or Holland.

Re:Vuja De

[Tablizer]

For real. Ever notice how only people who have never done LSD make it obvious when they speak about LSD? I'm really surprised he didn't mention flashbacks, jumping from rooftops, and various other myths held by LSD virgins.

I would note that "one trip fits all" is also often not the case. It affects different people differently. Thus, your personal experiences may not match that of others.

Really FUcked UP

[hugecrow]

What i wanna know is what happens when you put a skitzo in one of these machines...

Re:Really FUcked UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you read the fucking article and find out, dumbass?

Re:Really FUcked UP

[hugecrow]

maybe i can't read... asshole

More than a toy.

[robkill]

Yes, it is a simulation. It was developed with the help of schizophrenia patients, who tested it and gave feedback to the developer. One of the patients interviewed said it was realistic enough that he couldn't finish the simulation.

The goal of the simulation is to educate the families and physicians of schizophrenic patients, giving them a realistic impression of what the patients endure. It's not going to be perfect, obviously, but it raises awareness and understanding.

Re:More than a toy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is a simulation. It was developed with the help of schizophrenia patients, who tested it and gave feedback to the developer. One of the patients
interviewed said it was realistic enough that he couldn't finish the simulation.

Again, I reiterate, the schizophrenics will be able to see that this is like schizophrenia because they have suffered from the disease, and they know what it is like. But there is no simulation that can even come close to showing non-schizophrenics what it is like. That is, the simulation may be quite realistic and disturbing to people who have schizophrenia, but that says nothing about how it affects people without schizophrenia, and how it demonstrates the illness to them.

To make the LSD analogy (which I shouldn't, but I will)... I might be able to show you a Winamp plug-in that looks very much like a visual hallucination that one might experience on acid. But that is completely and utterly different from knowing what it is like to be on acid. The only way to know is to have done it, just like the only way to know what schizphrenia is like is to have it. VR doesn't come any closer than a verbal description. The fact that we have people commenting on how "cool" the simulation is should give this fact away. Schizophrenics don't find it "cool," and many times find it to be wholly disturbing and unsettling.

Let me put it like this: Can I put you in a VR that will convince you that you are dreaming, a la the matrix? No. When you are awake, you know you aren't dreaming, and there is no sensory stimulation that can negate that. But it's just that kind of mechanism that we have to deal with to even talk about simulating schizophrenia. I stand by my original assertion. Considering most of the population still thinks that schizophrenics have multiple personalities, I don't see how the money spent on this VR project will help general awareness at all. This is a toy.

Re:More than a toy.

[Vinum]

I once knew a girl, who was later diagnosed as schitzo.. bad news is that i got her pregnent. Anyway, lots of things about her fascinated me. When I was first getting to know her she once described to me about this one time she was raped horribly by this one guy... but later on when i first had sex with her she was defiently a virgin. (bloody sheets to prove it.)

She had other problems too, things I am not even sure what they are.. some repressive thing also where you could have a conversation with her and walk into the next room in the middle of the conversation. A few minutes later she would not remember the conversation or how she got in the room.

The wierdest thing is how well she adapted to all her problems... nothing seemed strange or abnormal to her. She said some things were unsettling to her at times but she didn't concern herself about it.

Anyway, she did later get diagnosed but she has refused all forms of treatment. We can't get her commited because she has never caused harm to herself or anyone else. But she is in pretty messed up shape these days, I haven't talked to her in awhile.

The thing I am concerened about is my daughter, who is 3 now. I am told that schizophrenia skips generations so I don't have to be concerened about my daughter.... but how do I explain to her the risk of her having kids?

Oh well

Re:More than a toy.

[robkill]

By your analogy then, a camera is a toy, because a picture is a visual representation of an event or place and you do not actually experience being there. Yet still cameras and video cameras have many uses beyond that of a toy.

Note I used the terms "realistic impression" and "raise awareness". I don't contend that someone who has experienced the simulator knows what it's like to have schizophrenia any more than spending a day in a wheelchair makes someone understand what it's like to be paraplegic. For some people, a picture is more effective than a verbal description. If the simulator helps a physician relate to his patients better than just having a clinical knowledge of the symptoms, or, as the NPR segment mentions, teaches a friend or family member that a schizophrenic patient can't "just ignore" the sensory input, then it is a worthwhile pursuit. In your last sentence you mention that most people think schizophrenia is multiple personality disorder. If this "toy" helps a large segment of the population recognize what schizophrenia actually is, then doesn't that make it worth pursuing?

Re:More than a toy.

[Anonymous Coward]

By your analogy then, a camera is a toy, because a picture is a visual representation of an event or place and you do not actually experience being there. Yet still cameras and video cameras have many uses beyond that of a toy.

No, because cameras aren't purported to be the same as actually being there. They're nice to look at, just like this VR is nice to look at, but there is more to schizophrenia than visual and auditory hallucinations. A verbal description can go far beyond clinical knowledge. You're implying that this VR is some kind of magic bridge between the realm of no knowledge and the realm of having the disease. It isn't, any more than a well-written personal account. I frankly don't buy the argument that some family member who doesn't understand the disorder and can't have it explained to them verbally will somehow magically come to grips with the disorder through use of a VR device.

I digress, the VR probably does have uses beyond that of a toy. But I would submit that the simulation is far closer to being a toy, far closer to an understanding that could be reached totally without the VR, than the article makes it out to be. Remember, most of what you see and hear is determined by how your brain interprets sensory data, and I'm just not convinced that any sensory data presented to a normal person will be interpreted anything like the way a schizophrenic's brain interprets it. I don't see how this VR will prove to people that you can't "Just ignore" the hallucinations any more than being told verbally.

In fact, this might actually hurt awareness because people are being told that this VR is "just like" schizophrenia, and a normal person might experience it and think "That's not so bad, what's their problem?" ... I admit, the simulation probably comes a little closer than traditional explanations. To rephrase: Compared to the utility the article claims this simulation to have, the utility it actually has is comparable to a toy.

Re:More than a toy.

[ArtEnvironment]

Sounds more like DID (Dissasociative Identity Disorder) -- you know, MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) which was renamed and incorporated under a spectrum of DIDs. . lots of MPDs often get misdiagnosed as schizophrenic.. however, the two disorders are quite different. That whole "repressive thing" and the adaptation and the "unsettling things" seriously point towards DID rather than schizophrenia. Look it up in the DSM-IV (Diagnostic Statistical Manual (?) of the American Psychiatric Association), or elsewhere.

BTW, women can have sex or have their hymens broken (for whatever reason) and still have some of it remaining, thusly at a later date have it broken further thus causing bleeding. There are also other reasons why a woman might bleed during or after sex. Also, while I don't know all the details of this alleged rape.. there are other ways that a woman can be raped, not to mention, just because one is raped doesnt mean full penetration took place for whatever reason.

BTW, I don't think there is any real basis to "schizophrenia skips generations" I think it "runs in families" rather than "skips generations". It's just a matter of a genetic predisposition to something. You don't need to explain to her "the risk of her having kids" it's not like if her mom had cancer, her kid would get cancer. It doesn't work that way.

You know, I probably could/should find www references for these things, but I'm too tired.. you'll just have to either look it up somewhere or take my word for it.

MOI?

[cornjchob]

Is it just me, or does it sound like a song from The Mothers of Invention?

And also, it seems like everything the voices say is negative. Are they any conditions like schizophrenia where instead of downing you constantly, the voices help you?

If there is, the voice is probably 'Jesus', but other than that, I'd like to know.

Re:MOI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than bringing subconscious ideas that are otherwise surpressed to the fore, it is difficult to see how the voices could add value to your life. It is easy to criticise and destroy - even yourself - than create. It was ever thus.

I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I was wondering if I was schizo or not. Apparently not. Does it count if you say those things out loud yourself. Sometimes at work I purposely don't surpress those impulses so my asshole boss won't talk to me. I'm trying to write a good post here but the goddamn voices are keeping me from doing it. (The ones in the slideshow, not my head :) )

Re:I'm curious

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be more like Tourette's Syndrome.

OK Simulation - Not Quite Right Though

[OverToasty]

It's a properly creepy simulation, but a few things are missing. 1 - Pharmacy people aren't all smiles and helpful as the actors in this video are, they're human too, and thus, they're prone to looking a little confused, frustrated etc - especially when dealing with a nonsensical schizo; unfortunately, what tends to feed a schizo is an extreme over interpretation of every little signal (a worried look by the pharmacist suddenly means "Oh, this is the person I'm supposed to kill, geez what a shame" ... as opposed to a simple smile tending to trigger that). There's plenty of simple minded types who believe that schizophrenia has absolutely NO bearing on reality what-so-ever, and when explaining to such types, it's perhaps best just to repeat the party line, since this is probably about as close as they'll ever get to understanding anyway, but for those looking for deeper insight (as I assume anybody who watched this video wants to do - unless of course, they're just going for the quickie freak-out), then it's possible to take the 'fractal' to the next level of resolution, and tell it more like it is, thus: yes schizophrenia often has a bearing on reality, but a very very twisted bearing on it ... and yes sometimes, it does in fact have none at all, in which case, even the simplest smile by a pharmacist really does mean "You're going to die". (note: chances are the video was stadged as such - with pharmacists looking absolutely perfect - to demonstrate clearly the disconnect from reality, which I suppose is ok to make that point, but it's not exactly accurate, which is mine) 2 - Panic, I like the way the video built things build up into an over-all sense of constant panic, which only makes the mind - of even a sane individual - race even more! When you're having problem interpreting input as it is, and suddenly there's even more panic thrown into the picture, making interpretation even more difficult, it's no wonder schizophrenics completely loose it in even slightly stressful situations. 3 - Wanna find out what Schizophrenia is like? Easy, do a whole lot of Acid ... for paranoid schozophrenia, do a whole lot of acid while crossing an international border while carrying a whole lot of acid - then, to get an even truer vibe, walk up to customs. Uh, then again, you might not want to know ... come to think of it, stick with the video.

Better solution.

[edunbar93]

The DVD is out for "A beautiful mind." This movie is an excellent portrayal of Schizophrenia. Watching the movie, *you* actually believe that the hero's fantasies are reality. Of course, movies are an excellent medium for this because they work through the magic of suspension of disbelief and you essentially immerse yourself in a fantasy world for two hours.

Myself, after watching this movie I could totally understand what a schizophrenic goes through and why they would resist tooth and nail, letting go of their fantastic hallucinations. Not only are these hallucinations as real to them as reality is, but the fact of the matter is that some of the people they imagine could well be their best friends. Not to mention the other nasty side effects of the drugs that make them go away.

Stop being ignorant...

[Anonymous Coward]

schizophrenics aren't "crazy"

They aren't "dangerous"

They can be very sweet and loving people. (my girlfriend/domestic partner is...

Stop steriotyping...

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