Judge Says Paypal's Arbitration Rules Unfair

MooRogue points to this article in today's San Francisco Chronicle, which reports U.S. District Court Judge Jeremy Fogel's ruling that Paypal "attempts to isolate itself from challenges," noting "Judge Fogel also refused to dismiss the class-action lawsuit going against Paypal." I guess I've been lucky with PayPal so far, but I know a few people who haven't.

Comments

PalPal democratizes taking credit cards

[gentlewizard]

I used PayPal earlier this year to accept credit card payments for a seminar I co-produced. It all went very smoothly: following the instructions in their online manual, I was able to add the Paypal button to my website and also pre-populate the signup form for new PayPal users.

Best of all, the fees were only $0.30 plus 2.9% per transaction, with no monthly minimum, terminal fees, etc. like with a standard credit card processor. This page at PalPal shows the comparison.

To me, this means that accepting credit card payments is not just a privilege of those who can "qualify" at a bank, but available to anyone with just a painless web signup. And the fees are less too.

If PayPal can ever get its customer service act together, it will really give banks a challenge. The credit card processors don't care: they're getting huge traffic from PayPal.

Re:PalPal democratizes taking credit cards

[Bagheera]

To me, this means that accepting credit card payments is not just a privilege of those who can "qualify" at a bank, but available to anyone with just a painless web signup. And the fees are less too.

One of the issues that has been brought up is that PayPal is NOT more economical than a merchant account. You reference their site, and I honestly wish I could find a good merchant account link - but I know from friends in business that the transaction fees are less than 2.9%.

While the point of qualification may be valid (there is none for a paypal account) the "savings" are non-existant for most business users. And, to be quite honest, it's not that difficult to qualify for a merchant account. A friend of mine started her business on-line with a merchant account and no real credit after a bankruptcy.

The real issue is that PayPal is NOT a bank, does not have the oversite that a bank does, and makes it so they can screw their users if they feel like it. The Judge in this instance has stepped in and told them "No, sorry, you aren't going to keep screwing your users."

Good for the Judge.

What more can you expect from a company that

[tcc]

Doesn't delete your account even if you specifically ask them to do so after many emails, fax, etc... and if that wasn't enough, they still spam you with their newsletter and promotion...

I mean, it was one thing that they didn't give me that 5$ credit when my friend added himself, and sent them a message to confirm that he got refered by me, but blattantly spamming and keeping your information in their database like this even after repeated requests is just plain wrong.

At least I'm lucky, I didn't do the mistake of running a merchant service with them, especially after all the horror stories I've heard.

Re:Federal small claims

[dr_dank]

If the issue is with PayPal, you forgo your right to sue for "binding arbitration" (read:a private court that will almost certainly be in PayPal's favor), IIRC. Hopefully, the class action suit will put an end to that nonsense.

Re:hypocrosy?

[Anonymous Coward]

no

Re:Ebay + Paypal

[larry bagina]

ebay is dropping their cc service in favor of paypal.

Re:obligatory link

[Jucius Maximus]

also: paypalwarning.com.

Re:Alternatives?

[schon]

Ok, so paypal sucks. Are there any good alternatives though?

Yes.

They are FDIC insured, so you have some recourse if they screw you.

Unhappy with Paypal? Call Craig at (402) 935-2258

[goingware]

PayPal's executives have stated publicly that they try to avoid phone calls to keep their costs down.

If you're unhappy with PayPal, PayPalWarning.com lists a bunch of phone numbers. Call (877) 672-9725 if you want to reach them toll free.

Here's a bunch of known paypal numbers:

(402) 935-2000 / (402) 935-2001 / (402) 935-2062 / (402) 935-2258 [this is Craig, complaints resolution manager] / (402) 935-7733 / (402) 537-5740 (fax) / (650) 251-1100 / (888) 221-1161 / (800) 836-1859 / (877) 672-9725 / (866) 272-9725

And addresses, in case you need to send a process server or wish to register a complaint in person:

PayPal, Inc.
1840 Embarcadero Rd.
Palo Alto, CA 943030

PayPal, Inc.
11128 John Galt Blvd.
Omaha, NE 68137

I signed up for paypal because it was the only way someone who had something I wanted to buy would accept payment. But I wouldn't allow them access to my checking account. They won't let you spend more than $250 through their service unless you allow them direct access to your checking account.

After reading PayPalWarning.com, I decided that I never would use them again.

I was unaware until recently that by giving PayPal access to your checking account, you forgo the liability protections that a credit card vendor is required to give you.

So if you pay a lot of money through paypal for some merchandise you never receive, you basically have no legal recourse - you're screwed. If you had paid with a credit card, you could dispute the charge with your credit card company and they'd have to give you your money back.

I think I'll call Craig when I get up and ask him to delete my account.