Alternatives to MSN+Verizon Wireless?

a.h.s. boy asks: "I took a little visit to my usually-neglected Verizon Wireless online account site today, and found myself greeted with the following message: 'Attention This site will not be available for use after October 2002. Please go to http://vzw.msn.com to set up a profile and start using our new VZW with MSN portal.' And now what does it take to login to my wireless phone site? That's right, .NET Passport account. I want one of those like I want a hole in my bedroom wall, however I really do want the convenience of getting my phone information online. I'm sure more and more sites are going to start requiring .NET passports for access, and even if I use bogus information for the Passport, it's still tied to my (quite non-bogus) cell phone records, isn't it? I already sent mail off to the Executive Office of Verizon Wireless to complain, but I can't imagine they're going to care what I think. What are others doing to work around the growing need for a Passport account?" For current customers of Verizon wireless, the question basically boils down to: "Should I stay or should I go?". For those opting for the latter, based on this latest twist, are there other cell-phone companies offering similar features to Verizon's service?

Comments

Microsoft in out of control

[SpaceLifeForm]

I can only guess how much they paid Verizon to do this.

What's wrong

[anthony_dipierro]

with .NET Passport?

Re:What's wrong

[Accelerated Joe]

So basically the poster is cutting off his nose to spite his face?
--
This post is released under the GPL. Is yours?

Well, when you put it that way, it makes me wonder why you'd use a GPL'ed web browser when you can just use Internet Explorer. You limit the sites that you can visit by picking anything else.

I hope you now see the flaw in your logic.

Re:What's wrong

[bmetzler]

Well, when you put it that way, it makes me wonder why you'd use a GPL'ed web browser when you can just use Internet Explorer. You limit the sites that you can visit by picking anything else.

I tried installing Internet Explorer 6 and it wouldn't install. Can you tell me what the problem is? I have the latest version of Debian 3, and I did an apt-get dist-upgrade to make sure that everything was up-to-date.

-Brent

Re:What's wrong

[Cliff]

[What's wrong] with .NET Passport?

I'm sorry, I should have explained this further in the writeup, but I thought the last Passport fiasco would have still been in people's minds.

Put simply, for an ID service that is expected to be used as an umbrella authentication for a lot of web services, Passport's security seems rather lax. Which is exactly what you do not want when it comes to privacy on the web.

Verizon's switch to a system that hasn't exactly gained a reputation for being secure, for use by their wireless customers seems like a not-so-well-thought-out move to me. Especially considering that Verizon already had a system in place for their wireless customers.

Re:What's wrong

[anthony_dipierro]

Well, when you put it that way, it makes me wonder why you'd use a GPL'ed web browser when you can just use Internet Explorer.

I find mozilla to be a better browser, overall, than IE.

You limit the sites that you can visit by picking anything else.

No I don't. I still use IE for those two or three sites that I can't view in mozilla.

I hope you now see the flaw in your logic.

No, I certainly don't. When the differences between IE and mozilla were significant, last year, I used IE. Now that the browsers are roughly the same, I use mozilla. It's not about the principle of the matter, it's about using the best product.

Re:What's wrong

[daviddennis]

It's part of the giant convergence of information about you.

If you use .net Passport to log in to your phone account, it means your phone account is linked to the Passport, and so all sorts of interesting data mining could be possible between your phone calls, your passport account and your use of other Passport sites.

Frankly, it feels more than a little creepy to me. They will, of course, SAY they don't do anything like this, but just the fact that it's technically possible makes my skin crawl.

D

Re:What's wrong

[Cliff]

So don't use VZW for things that need to be secure. You shouldn't be anyway.

Exactly! And that's the reason I posted this story: to find alternatives for those who want to ditch VZW for something they can stomach, nothing more.

What does Verizon online offer?

[reaper20]

What kind of services does Verizon Online offer? I can't think of too many useful things to have tied in to your phone provider.

Most seem to have online billpay and other services (I know AT&T does), what else does it do?

Re:What does Verizon online offer?

[ceejayoz]

Sprint lets you check how many minutes you've used, which is important if you don't want to go over the allotted minutes and pay out the ass for it... I imagine Verizon does the same.

I'd certainly recommend Sprint, but I think it's a losing battle - things like the Passport are going to be inevitable, IMO. People do like having one unified login, even if it's less secure.

SprintPCS is the obvious answer...

[singularity]

While not the answer to the general question ("What do you do about avoiding signing up for Passport?"), but SprintPCS does offer similar services without the need for Passport (so far).

I just logged on and checked my mounthly usage and the settings for my phone.

SprintPCS

I also have the wireless web for $5/month, allowing me to check my email by handpring Visor to my Samsung SCH-3500 with the use of a cable from Gomadic.

I get service in most metropolitan areas.

Perhaps this would be a good SlashPoll:
What cell provider do you use?
SprintPCS, Verizon, etc.

Re:SprintPCS is the obvious answer...

[ivan256]

*2 doesn't deduct minutes from your account, and they don't charge me a fee to talk to a representative. What plan do you have that you get screwed with a $3 fee? If they started that shit with me I'd be gone fast. When they tried to switch the start of nighttime minutes 9:00 PM I threatend to cancel, and I got to keep 8:00 as my start time. Similarly when they got rid of first incoming minutes being free... I've still got them. You probably don't even want to know how many minutes I've got for $35.99. It's like it never stopped being 1998 when they were actually cheap.

You need to get in touch with the retention department and tell them why you are unhappy (and why you're going to cancel if they don't fix it). The retention department can basically offer you anything you can talk them into. They are not stuck offering the "plans" that the regular salesman have. They'll hook you up. Don't even bother trying to explain it to the first phone monkey that you get when you call, just ask for the retention department first thing.

ditch them

[austad]

Tell them it's a bad idea by dropping their sorry asses. ATT Wireless has what you're looking for, so does sprint.

I'm with ATT (GSM service), and I'm very happy with it. The coverage is kinda sketchy sometimes though, but they plan on having the same coverage as their TDMA network by the end of the year. If you're that worried about the coverage, they have the Siemens S46 which is TDMA and GSM and offers excellent coverage, wireless web crap, and lots of other features that aren't available on a TDMA phone. BTW, I think Verizon is TDMA anyway, go with the wave of the future and get yourself a GSM phone. Sprint's new service is CDMA 2000 which is technically superior to 2G GSM, however, it's unclear if most providers will support CDMA 2000, so you'll be SOL if you're in a roaming area. It appears that most providers in Europe are now considering WCDMA which is superior to CDMA 2000.

Re:ditch them

[cmowire]

Actually, Verizon uses CDMA, not TDMA.

Re:ditch them

[David Greene]

ATT in Ann Arbor, MI has some really good deals for students. I got a Nokia 8390 for $50 after rebate due to a student discount on the hardware (it's usually $150). It's not the top-of-the-line phone, but it will probably do what I need. They also have a nice 500 anytime + 3000 night/weekend minutes nationwide for $35/mo. limited time offer.

Unfortunately, the ATT salesguy misled me about the data capabilities of the plan. He insisted that I could charge my voice minutes to any data (GPRS) accesses. Even when I mentioned that the ATT web site sells separate data packages he wouldn't budge. He said I could buy an "unlimited megabyte" package from $99 per month but otherwise I would just be charged voice minutes.

I didn't believe him so I called ATT directly and sure enough, he was flat-out wrong. They don't even have an unlimited data plan. No CSD either.

It seems that no wireless provider has a reasonable (cost-effective) data plan in place. I'm not going to pay $20/mo. for 5 measly megabytes of data transfer.

Anyone have ideas on this one? Since my mobile is my primary voice line I'm running out of data options. Cable/DSL won't be in my area until I've already moved away.

I have Verizon

[Apreche]

only because that's what I have. I don't use any of the MSN stuff that goes along with it. I do use some of the on-phone yahoo stuff however.
Your best bet is to go with Sprint. Sprint is by far the best wireless provider in the country. If you really want whatever feature is provided by getting a passport then either get one, or leave Verizon.

Re:I have Verizon

[invenustus]

Sprint is by far the best wireless provider in the country.

Them's fightin' words. It very well may be the best provider for your needs, but others' needs might necessitate something else.

I'm currently with Cingular, which allows me to use my minutes anywhere in the country where there's a TDMA signal without incurring any roaming charge whatsoever. Where I work, in the middle of New England Nowhere, the ONLY providers are Cellular One (it hasn't been bought out here yet) and US Cellular, both TDMA. Therefore, I had to drop Voicestream/TMobile, who had served me extremely well via GSM in Philadelphia and New Jersey.

I found a very simple solution...

[atgrim]

I left Verizon. It has been said before and I shall say it again. Use your dollars to express your opinion. It is the only thing that big corps like Verizon, et al... respect. It is the only thing that gets their attention. I have Nextel now and love the 2-way radio feature. On top of it all, Nextel service is so far and above that of Verizon, it's almost humerous. :-)

GSM?

[Matthew Weigel]

T-Mobile (nee Voicestream) has a decent online presence, as does Sprint; it's looking like T-Mobile and Cingular are going to be merging, so coverage should get better (I've only had problems out in the boonies anyway), and you get to play with the same or similar phones to the rest of the world.

Re:GSM?

[cdrudge]

I have been with Voicestream for a year or two now and have been quite happy with them. They are in the midst of switching everything over to T-mobile, so my guess is that they have growing pains and everything is not going as expected. In my experience, their webpage is not indicative of their cellular service.

Try checking out Amazon's cellular store. They have most/all the information that you need, great prices on phones (after rebates) and should have access maps to look at with rate plans.

While you are free to tell your friends/family about your experience, I think that your reaction is kinda extreme. I bet if you called Verizon, Sprint, etc and told them that their webpage was down, they'd either say "Who cares", "Oh, ok" or "Thanks for calling" and then prompty take the next call doing nothing.

Re:GSM?

[cdrudge]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the maps right now on Amazon, they look like the same maps that were on the Voicestream site. OF course there is the disclaimer that says actual coverage may change blah blah blah.

I don't think your address is blocked. I think that they have a bad server or some other technical problem.

Re:Huh!

[innocent_white_lamb]

Is this really any different than a 'registration required' site?

Yes it is indeed, because as the person who asked the question pointed out, his cell phone records (name, address, and whatnot) are NOT imaginary. He could enter a fake email address if he wanted to, but that information would still be tied to his real name/address that his cell phone billing account is registered to.

So "Mickey Mouse, 1 Lois Lane" won't do. It's cyber-world tied to real-world and you can't fake the real-world end in this situation.

.NET is for wap access not for billing access

[DRACO-]

the .net messenger, wap portal is just for the web access on the phone. You cant reach billing through that login. You have a separate location, login/password for billing. FYI, You can still get to a yahoo messenger.

Go ahead and get it, I started playing around with the odd couple and added some calendar stuff to the msn calendar and found i could have stuff smsed to my cell and if I set it, i could have my cell smsed if i get a hotmail message from someone in my contacts or all messages or none. On the calendar side, you can set up a hunt deal where if a alarm goes off, if you are on your msn im, it msgs you there, if not it drops to email. or sms your cell.

The calendar MSN has can import palm calendar databases, which is more than i can say for yahoo since they switched apps. Yahoo used to import, but now they created a sync application and require you to download the app and install it. You use it in place of your usual hotsync application. They forgot something tho, some of us use USB cables. Yahoo gets the finger for that.

Which remote organization suite is better? I still say I like Yahoo. Yahoo wrote their own messenger client for use under linux. It works very close to the windows counterpart. If a alarm goes off on the calendar I get a message. If I receive new email, it messages me. A few other alerts are available through the client for stocks and other things I have no use for. Msn on the other hand, im left using the only client i can find that is stable on linux ccmsn. Totally featureless. MSN fails miserably by not having a linux client. They need to get their head out of their ass and wake up before it's their funeral.

DRACO-

What crack are you on?

[Andy Dodd]

Went to http://bill.verizonwireless.com/

Input my username/password

I now see my bill.

Nothing about MSN.

Yes, their online portal is a different story. They switched MyVZW from Infospace to MSN.

Not like I care.

My advice: Get a Kyocera Smartphone. No more need for the crappy $5/month Mobile Web WAP service, you now have a full-blown client side web browser, an excellent combo web/WAP browser (Blazer) is available for $20, and you get to use the hundreds of PQA apps that have been written for the Palm VII.

Sprint PCS is obviously not the answer.

[Andy Dodd]

1) Inferior coverage. Sprint's non-roaming coverage is probably around 20-30% if you look at their map. Hell, they can't even cover all of New Jersey, the most densely populated state in the USA! Verizon is well over 50% of the country, probably closer to 75%+

2) Inferior customer service. I've heard numerous complaints about "claire" - And now they want to charge you for customer service calls!

3) No MO-SMS - You have to log into some sort of website to send an SMS.

4) Distinction between data minutes and voice minutes. You *HAVE* to get Wireless Web unless you want to pay 39 cents/minute for data calls whether they're microbrowser or simply using your phone as a modem. With Verizon, you only need Mobile Web if you need microbrowser capability. If you have an integrated PDA/phone such as the Kyo 6035 or use your phone as a modem for a laptop or other PDA, Mobile Office is free and simply uses your voice minutes for data calls.

Re:Sprint PCS is obviously not the answer.

[David Greene]

Distinction between data minutes and voice minutes. You *HAVE* to get Wireless Web unless you want to pay 39 cents/minute for data calls whether they're microbrowser or simply using your phone as a modem. With Verizon, you only need Mobile Web if you need microbrowser capability. If you have an integrated PDA/phone such as the Kyo 6035 or use your phone as a modem for a laptop or other PDA, Mobile Office is free and simply uses your voice minutes for data calls.

AFAIK, Verizon is the only service provider to do this, and it's over CSD, not GSM/GPRS so you'll only get 14.4kbps max. But it's better than nothing, I suppose. See my comment above the clueless ATT salesman. I'm still looking for an acceptable data solution that doesn't cost a fortune. Suggestions, anyone?

Bzzt...

[Andy Dodd]

Verizon, like Sprint, uses CDMA.

GSM's underlying modulation scheme is TDMA, which means that it is no better in areas such as range/call handoff/noise immunity than TDMA. CDMA is generally considered to be a superior modulation scheme, which is why next-gen GSM will be CDMA.

And don't forget that with the exception of AT&T (whom I've heard VERY mixed opinions of), all of the GSM/TDMA providers have miniscule coverage areas.

The only two carriers that are really an option if you actually care about coverage quality and dropped calls are AT&T and Verizon, they're the only truly nationwide providers.

The post here is honestly the FIRST time I've heard anything negative about VZW from someone who actually uses their service, and it's a blatantly false claime - Verizon doesn't require Passport *at all* to check online billing. I know this because I just checked my bill and didn't see a single mention of Passport.