New Closed Source Voting Systems Malfunction

LowellPorter writes "Miami-Dade and Broward counties are having voting problems. After the 2000 election problems, new voting methods were installed including touch screen technology. Some times the problems were with workers not showing up, poor training, or mechanical problems. It doesn't look like they cleaned up the system there." Not all of the problems mentioned in the article are due to the new proprietary voting machines, but many of them are.

Comments

A simple solution to vote counting problems

[rufusdufus]

One of the main problems with voting is that each individual voter doesn't know if their vote was properly counted, and has no recourse if the their vote was miscounted. One reason for this limitation is that the vote is anonymous, so you can't keep track of what happened to your vote.
My idea is to give each voter a secret unique identifier randomly generated at the poll. An online database would keep track of which identifier went with what vote. Then, anybody who had doubts about thier vote could look up to see if they were counted properly. If not, they could use thier receipt to petition for a revote. In the event that enough people complained within the deadline, the entire vote would be redone.

Re:A simple solution to vote counting problems

[5KVGhost]

I don't think it would be so simple in practice:

1) What's to stop someone from lying and claiming that their vote was miscounted once the votes had been tallied, or being coerced/bribed/persuaded into fraudulently changing their vote after the fact?

2) If a complete re-vote could be forced simply by a large number of complaints, with no means to tell if the complaints are valid or not, then a large enough group of unscrupulous (or misguided) voters could challenge any election which didn't give the results they wanted. (Combining this with existing voter fraud techniques could create a block of phantom voters just for this purpose.)

3) What's to prevent someone else from reading and/or challenging your vote if they obtain your number, or if they are able to fraudulently generate a valid random identifier?

4) When someone comes forward to claim that their vote was miscounted, they'd no longer be anonymous. Sure, they could use their secret number to check the status of the vote and remain anonymous (technical issues aside) but at some point the person casting the vote would need to identify themselves in person before casting a corrected ballot. Remember, the result of your vote is anonymous, but you aren't; you must register and be identified before you're a valid voter.

voting machines are stupid

[DABANSHEE]

What is it with America's love of voting machines? The vast majority of countries don't use then, including most of the OECD - really the only reason for the US using machines is because they're stupid & vote on Tuesday, not Saturday. Yet they wonder why they have the lowest voter turnout in the world, afterall what percentage of people with minimum wage jobs get paid time off to vote? (the minimum wage is probably the mode average wage in the US, or close to it, as the US has the biggest gap between mode & mean average wages in the Western World,) Plus finding casual labour, for hand counting, & volunteer scrutineers, is much harder on a Tuesday, compared with a Saturday.

But haven't you bloody Americans learnt the KISS system - Keep It Simple Stupid.

This means no bloody machines, period !!! If Australia (& most of the OECD) can do hand counted paper ballots, then so can the US.

The only reason they use machine systems in the US is to cut costs, but the simple fact is they arn't as good - they invalidate more votes then hand counts do, they intimidate & confuse a good percentage of voters & they increase the odds of something fuking up (murphy's law)

Look at the mess, as well as the fucked up punch card machines you have counties with lever machines, other with optical machines, toggle switch machines, push button machines & also touch screen systems too. Then there are places like Oregon where all votes are of the mail in variety (which obviously discriminates against the homeless & disorginised). The simple fact is that huge numbers of people are intimidated with this complicated mess that's one of the reasons why most Americans don't vote & why the US has the lowest voter turnout in the OECD

Look at all the people that are intimidated by machines & even now still refuse to use Automatic Teller Machines, & there are plenty more people like that then just the illiterate, the elderly & immigrants that have poor 2nd language skills.

Its as if the bureaucracy in the US are on purposefully trying to discourage the masses from voting.

The only way to go is to Keep It Simple Stupid. Which means aiming at the lowest common denominator & designing a system that the stupidist simpleton can understand.

Which means 'X marks the spot' hand ballots.

That means a peice of paper with the candidates listed in a columne & another columne of boxes on the side with just one box next to each candidate.

Here are a couple of examples of 'KISS' paper ballots, the 1st one is an example of an Australian preferential ballot (any Americans who support 3rd parties should be demanding that the US system be made either preferential or proportional, otherwise no 3rd parties will ever make any long term headway), the 2nd ballot is an example of an ''X' marks the spot' ballot.

As far as counting goes the US should be doing what Australia does (& most of the rest of the developed world does similar) & hold the vote on a Saturday (I wonder how many blue collar workers in the US chose not to vote because of the incoveniance of voting on a Tuesday), using local schools as voting centres. Then leasing indoor stadiums & convention centres nationwide which are to be used as counting centres for the thousands of temp workers employed to count the votes. Each counter also has a Labour & conservative scrutineer looking over his/her shoulders.

It's extremely rare for results to not be known before the weekend is out (actually results mostly come out on the Saturday night, meaning people can go to election result parties & still be ok for work on Monday)

Sure its labour intensive, but as any UN election observer will tell you this is the best system if you want high turnouts with low rates of invalid votes & a result that's as accurate as can be, by Monday morning at the latest (actually in the vast majority of elections we know who's won by about 8pm the same night).

Now I bet someone will think 'oh but the US is much bigger than Australia', well my answer is no problem, the US having a nationwide hand paper ballot election would be no different than if Australia the UK, Germany the Netherlands & the Scandinavian countries all voted the same day, IE there's no reason to think it won't scale up fine.

Also all politicians must be removed from any decision making processes as far as the running of elections are concerned, etc.

Look at the way democratic afiliated local officials OKed the hand count iin Palm Beach & then the Republican Florida SoS blocked the hand count (& she was Bush's co-campaign manager, which makes it an even worse conflict of interest). That sort of thing is unheard of in Australia. Where an Independent Australian Electoral Commision administers federal elections & the various state electoral commisions administers state & local elections.

No politians are involved anywhere in the decision making process (except for calling the date of the election). As far as recounts, re-votes, referendums (in Australia politions can't amend the constitution, only the people can through referendums. Where a majority of the total votes & a majority in a majority of states, responds 'yes' to the amendment) & by-elections, etc are concerned only the electoral commision can make decisions regarding them. Although anyone can appeal to the commision's court, for a recount or re vote or something. Whether such appeals are successful is another matter.

Re:Openness is critical in insuring fair elections

[goldspider]

I think your paranoia is a little over the top, friend.

First of all, the parent post wasn't saying anything to the effect of the fairness of the machines' tallying methods. Any system can be compromised by unscrupulous character, be it manual hand counting or rigged counting algorithms.

The point the parent's post was making is that the article was titled in such a way that the root cause of the problems experienced was that the voting software was closed source. Not only is that sensationalist, it's simply untrue. Any system can break if those expected to use it can't figure out how to do so.

So the story had nothing to do with the fairness of the machines, and little to do with technical problems within the software itself. It certainly made no case that any of it could have been solved with open source. So please, editors, stop trying to make these stories into something they're not.

Forget that, let's talk about rigged elections.

[El Camino SS]

Nevermoind that the voting machines didn't work. Lets remember that Florida is the land of rigged elections, thanks to our little friend Katherine Harris (a bigwig Republican).

Personally, I think her ass should be in fucking federal prison for criminal tampering with the election process. Please follow me on this one. I have been picking this one up on the way all through the AP wires (I get access at work) and a good book by Michael Moore called Stupid White Men that I have been reading.

Shortly before the election even began, Katherine Harris decided to expunge the system of any felons that might be in the system. Those felons were (by vast majority in America on average) usually of African-American descent. Finding and removing all of these felons would have been a herculean task, so Katherine Harris and all of her election board members decided to go with a close match criteria to expedite the removal of felons in the system. The Election Commission also sent out memos to other states to give them lists of other possible felons that may have moved to Florida. Take a big stab on the only state that gave them a possible list.

TEXAS. That's right. Texas.

SO WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME OF THIS? Thousands, and I mean thousands, of African-American voters that were NOT FELONS got turned away at the polls for matching up all of their kangaroo court requirements. THOUSANDS OF AFRICAN AMRERICANS, CITIZENS WHO EARNED THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE THE HARDEST WAY IN AMERICA COULD NOT VOTE. Imagine getting to the polls and getting turned away. Now imagine being black in America and getting turned away.

Here's another one: Entire districts were lost or counted as null or erroneous in Florida elections... or the locations were moved entirely. TAKE A STAB ON THE MAKEUP OF THESE DISTRICTS. If you guessed African-American, you'd be dead on the money. This is a PROVEN FACT. The election commission only messed with black districts.

DID KATHERINE HARRIS AND ALL OF HER ASSOCIATES GO TO JAIL? No. Actually she ran for US Senate. What a payback to get all of that campaign funds. I wonder where she got them.

In an interview Katherine Harris said that if Gore had been nice to her, he might have been president. After the fact, that ego alone tells me that all of the allegations are pretty much true. That statement alone wants me to see her go to prison even more.

So here is the question... with all of this crap going on in the system. Why is it that we don't vote? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER. THATS WHY. But many of us are out there for the reason to get our votes back. And we will. We will be watching the election commissions. You all should. Especially in America, where election commissions are appointed by the local bigwigs.