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Internet Vigilante Justice, SPAM, and Copyrights

pdw writes "An interesting article about how vigilante justice on the Internet by anti-spam advocates can be just as threatening to the Internet as those proposed for copyright advocates."

17 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. His relay is open by ccandreva · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article demonstrates the problem we are up against getting people to secure their networks.

    His mail server is an open relay, and he still doesn't realize it. Worse, he's a lawyer. These are the people that will be setting policy.

    I wonder if it is even worth e-mailing to explain the situation to him.

    1. Re:His relay is open by schon · · Score: 5, Informative

      His mail server is an open relay, and he still doesn't realize it.

      His mail problem is that he doesn't understand what an open relay really is.

      He says "I block SOME relayed mail, so therefore my relay isn't completely open, so therefore it's not an open relay."

      Well, if a door is ajar, are you going to argue that it's not open? If it's not closed, it's open.

    2. Re:His relay is open by Permission+Denied · · Score: 4, Informative
      I worked for this department that was running Appleshare IP 6.x for mail services. Of course, this wasn't my choice, and it took quite a while to convince them to move to something else (ASIP has these pointy-clicky user management tools).

      Anyway, ASIP only allows you to selectively allow relaying based on domain name, just like this guy is doing. It, of course, doesn't explain this as the documentation is truly useless. Also, it doesn't allow you to do IP-based selective relaying, which is what people actually need.

      This is a completely useless feature. You can simply do "MAIL FROM: somelocaluser@yourdomain.com" and it allows mail through. Then, in the actual mail message, you add a header "From: spammer@otherdomain.com", and the second thing is what most users (who don't read relay headers) will see.

      Someone else figured this out, and on a Friday evening, our server started spewing out LOTS of spam.

      Now, I couldn't simply put up another mail server, as ASIP keeps all of its mail in one large, monolithic file, so I couldn't, for instance, export the mail to a qmail machine. Instead, I put the ASIP box behind a firewall so that NOBODY could connect to it. Then, I set up a secondary MX record for the box pointing to a Linux machine running qmail. Then, I poked a hole in the firewall to allow mail to the ASIP box ONLY from the Linux box (and from a couple other IPs for which it actually needed to do the relaying in the first place). Yes, this is quite a hackish solution, but Apple's software was extremely defficient and I was sick of working with it.

      The point? This is an open relay, and it will be abused once some spammer runs out of open relays that don't even do "MAIL FROM:" checking. Whether or not this guy is an idiot, I don't know, but what I do know is that this guy needs a real admin.

  2. Re:wow by hawthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not only is he a lawyer, but hes a lawyer with an open relay, and he doesn't believe that spammers will 'lie' to get that server to propagate their mail!

  3. Not an open relay? Hardly by stefanb · · Score: 4, Informative
    form teh article: You see, my mail servers were set up to pass mail only from a domain name of which I am the only user. It blocks everything else. That's not an open relay. Unless you're a user in my domain, you can't use it.

    Well, setting your sender's address to a trivially guessed domain name (such as the reverse-mapped address of the host), you effectivly have an open relay. Guess what spammers are doing: they are using known-good addresses, and try sending spam from those addresses MX hosts in the hope that the MTA do this foolish kind of access check.

    This has been discussed since at least five years, and has been a point in the many faqs and howtos on how to lock down your MTA for a long, long time.

    If you really need to send mail through your MTA from arbitrary IP addresses, you need to employ authentication. Again, this is hardly a new technology, and many documents explaining how to combine SSL and authentication for SMTP exist.

  4. I don't get it... by Rhubarb+Crumble · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This guy's gripe is about being misidentified as an open relay. But either I'm missing something or he's full of crap:

    How had it gained access to my mail server? Simple. It had forged the headers on its email to convince my mail server that the email it sent was from a permitted user.

    One word: Authentification.

    You see, my mail servers were set up to pass mail only from a domain name of which I am the only user. It blocks everything else. That's not an open relay. Unless you're a user in my domain, you can't use it.

    Uh, it may not be a totally open relay in the literal sense of the word, but surely that still means it can be used to send spam, as long as the spammer figures out who to identify himself as - and if the Danes could do it, then it can't be that hard?

    Any spam-block that relies entirely on the "from:" header is broken by design. What, spammers disguise their identities? Never!

    1. Re:I don't get it... by catfood · · Score: 4, Funny
      One word: Authentification.

      Yeah! Don't misunderestimate the value of authentification!

  5. Re:wow by sqlrob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He does seem remarkably clue resistant though. He *IS* running an open relay and admits it.

    So what if you have to forge the FROM. It's not like spammers don't do that anyway.

  6. Seen it all before by odaiwai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is the kind of thing you see every day in news:news.admin.net.abuse.email.

    "Waah, I'm being blocked by your nasty list! I demand you stop blovking me or I'll drop piano's on all your heads! and I'm a lawyer!"

    "A. no-one's blocking you, they're justing *choosing* not to accept email from known open relays (or whatever the perp feels accused of)."

    "You're abusing my First Amendment Rights to 'Frea Speach'"

    "Our list is based in the Gobi Desert. *Our* first amendment guarantees the right to tea with yak butter."

    Also, searching for his email address to see if he had ranted on usenet, I found this: Archived Article

    an Excerpt (from the above article by "R. A. Hettinga" ):
    New Architect is a Microsoft/DotNet magazine. This article is
    agitprop for Microsoft's identity solutions: UDDI, Passport, and Palladium.

    Any reputation framework that arises in the wild would reduce the
    profitability of a Microsoft solution, so they are going to badmouth it,
    sue it, etc.

    dave

  7. Not an open relay? by Jondor · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I do see a few problems with the story as written.
    • If it's so easy for the danish people to forge an acceptable identity, it's as easy for everybody else. Including spammers. If his domain is the only domain who should be allowed to use the mailserver, lock it on an ip-range.
    • If I want to make a personal list of domains from who I refuse to accept mail that's my good right. You can shout all you want, but I don't have to listen. If others like a copy of my list because they trust my judgement in this case, that's between them and me. Again, nobody can force me to accept mail.
    • As for the trespassing, he asked the danish site to re-check his mailserver. If I ask a cop to check my doors and windows, and he finds a way to get in. Can I sue him for burgelary? Or call it unfair because they used a method I didn't anticipate?

    Anyhow, IMHO this is an other blabla piece from someone who doesn't realy has an understanding of what he's doing.. Typical american sollution.. let's sue..
    --
    Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
  8. Re:wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, this guy *IS* an idiot. Based on what he says in his diatribe, he has his server configured to allow relay based on the sender email address. As he doesnt seem to realize he has discovered, this is NOT a secure way of configuring a server, and a server configured that way *IS AN OPEN RELAY*. Relay controls must be based on IP address, not sender email address. Other secure options include SMTP Auth and POP-before-SMTP.

    His saying his server is not an open relay doesnt make it so. If some random person on the Internet can make his server send a message to some other random person on the Internet, then his server is insecure. Yes, spammers *DO* forge sender addresses in order to abuse these servers.

    Spam, and the security and policies necesarry to try and get control of it, are by nature a very technical field. More and more people who are just upset that they cant mail, and thing the blacklists are responsible, and who arent willing to take the time to understand whats really going on, and starting to get off on their soapboxes like this. THEY ARE WRONG.

  9. Follow up article... by silverhalide · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you subscribe to New Architect, this guy wrote a followup article to this one after receiving a boat load of mail pointing out the he was in fact running an open relay. He admitted to being behind the times, etc, said he was sorry. He still doesn't take back the fact he's mad at the vigilantes out there. Sorry, there's no link yet, I think NA has a lag between the print and web editions.

    Point being, if they can forge a header to get on your computer, a spammer can very easily do the same thing. An interesting thing on my campus is the technology department regularly scans and tries to hack into FTP sites running on campus, and sends an e-mail to the admins if they're successful. Some students got mad, but the moral of the story is, better to have someone trustworthy find your weakness rather than someone who's going to exploit it. This seems to be a new effective form of security that's emerging, since we can't depend everyone to stay up to date with the latest security issues, such as the Mr. Faussett in the article. I think vigilante is the wrong term, these blacklist ops are doing everyone a favor by helping to clean up insecure sites, which in the end saves everyone money. I propose we call them "Freelance Security Advisors" or something like that. :-)

  10. Re:Not a troll, but by catfood · · Score: 4, Informative

    Then that's when you want SMTP AUTH or POP-before-SMTP, a pretty typical configuration on modern mail servers. Or use your dialup ISP's mail server as a smarthost--that's what it's for.

  11. Just a thought..... by philkerr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Should we recommend this guy to Bernie Shifman just in case he's still looking to sue people?

  12. Blacklists are problematic by Elias+Israel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The truth is that these home-grown spam mitigation methods do have their problems.

    One of them is evident in the article: well-meaning users often do not understand what might be insecure about their server configurations, or what might need to be done to fix them. I am very comfortable with sendmail configuration, and I can tell you that setting up the authorizations correctly for mobile users to be able to send email safely is a narrow, twisty labyrinth in comparison to the big, flashing exit door marked "promiscuous relay".

    Another problem in the home-grown nature of these solutions is the tendency for them to be personality-driven, instead of professional. Often, IP addresses (or even whole ISPs) are placed on blacklists because the blacklist maintainer does not mind creating a little collateral damage if they think it might create a little extra pressure on a spammer or an ISP.

    Some blacklists have blocked out entire hosting companies, including some of the biggest ones on the net, simply because they did not think they acted with sufficient alacrity against spammers in their midsts. This kind of wild overkill is unfortunately too common, and perhaps it's a good argument in favor of for-profit blacklisting, which would probably exert some good influence on the question of list quality.

    Earthlink rejects mail from any IP address that belongs to a dial-up pool that attempts to connect to their SMTP servers.

    Ostensibly, this is done to reduce "direct-to-mx" spam, which is a very common spammer tactic. Unfortunately, it also makes life harder on the home linux enthusiast, or home business operator who might be running their own perfectly legitimate sendmail server. All part of the collateral damage in the spam wars: Internet access and Internet business are slowly becoming more expensive and possibly moving out of the reach of people with limited means.

    So what should we do?

    First, I think that current law against junk faxes should be extended to include junk emails. This would not eliminate spam, but it would give us the ability to correct the spammers who operate out in the open.

    As a Libertarian, I want to jealously guard the right of the people to freedom of expression. But that right does not and cannot include the right to expropriate other people's time or money. You have a right to make your voice heard. You do not have a right to force me to pay for it.

    Second, I think that we should be careful about the blacklists that we use, and prefer those operated by recognizable and accountable companies wherever possible.

    Finally, I think that for the forseeable future, filtering at the user desktop will be necessary.

    (Cards-on-the-table time: I am working on a new solution for end users to eliminate spam from their inboxes. It is based on a new method, and it will work for any user who uses a POP email account. It will be ready for public beta soon. Please write to me if you want to learn more.)

    The struggle against spam is definitely picking up, and I think that a new equilibrium is approaching.

  13. Re:So you don't mind if I test your home security? by FreeUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some students got mad, but the moral of the story is, better to have someone trustworthy find your weakness rather than someone who's going to exploit it.

    Sometime in the next week or so, I am going to stop by your home and probe for any security problems that a burglar might exploit.


    You sir, are of subhuman intelligence.

    There is a distinct difference between a University testing the security of systems directly connected to its own network and jackasses like yourself equating it to random strangers "testing" a systems security.

    To clarify in terms of the flawed analogy you provide, no one should have trouble with their landlord testing their home's security, as the landlord is the one who is responsible, and who fixes it when it is broken. That is not the same as inviting any random stranger off the street to do likewise.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  14. Re:How? by dougmc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There is no reason to allow sites from outside your LAN to relay through your mail server based just on the From line or the MAIL FROM smtp command.
    Incorrect. There is a reason -- convenience. It allows him to go anywhere and send mail without even changing his relay.

    However, the reason to not do this is that it's insecure. A large percentage of the spam I receive claims to be from the domain that it's being sent to, so his system would happily relay it.

    The second reason should trump the first reason, but obviously if you're a clue resistant lawyer with a chip on your shoulder, it doesn't.

    For those who appreciate irony, consider this --

    He's basically written this big diatribe, which to spammers says `hey! you can relay through my mail server!' ... so a spammer finds it, and forges their spam to allow it to go through it, and uses it to spam the world. Then somebody gets flooded with these spams, and sues our friend Bret. They can even use his article as evidence that his mail server was open and he knew it, but that he refuses to secure it.